Should I get my money back?

[Ad1986]

A sister of my fiances friend offered to watch my son for the month of August in her home as my 8 year old son was on a waiting list for the daycare and she has a son his age as well and was watching other kids during the summer. She offered to watch him for $500 for August as I was starting a new job at the beginning of August. She is not licensed, regulated or accredited in anythig pertaining to child care so essentiall just a babysitter. She did not provide a written contract. I was at my job for 2 weeks and it was absolutely horrible. It was conveyed to be a great place to work by the boss however when I started the people were absolutely miserable, they did not 'do tax forms' to claim dependants, and their accountant quit some time before and refused to come in and do the proper paycheques for payday. I have never quit a job after 2 weeks, I am a legal assistant and have worked at 2 firms in the past 6 years. I quit at the end of the second week and therefore did not take my son to her during the day. Towards the end of August I asked if I could have $250 back as he was only there for 9 days. She is refusing to give it back and said 'I am running a business and that's how it works'. Do you think I'm entitled to half of it back since he wasn't there and she isn't a formal dayhome?

[BlueRose]

You had a verbal agreement that you broke. Most providers charge by enrollment not attendance. So no I don't think she should give you back any money. FYI: anyone who proves more then 10 hours/week of care to a child is NOT a babysitter, they are by law a provider. At least in Ontario.

[5 Little Monkeys]

It sounds like she is a dcprovider not a babysitter, so I agree with blue rose.

In the future, I'd consider choosing a provider with a contract so you can avoid situations like this.

[Ad1986]

It sounds like she is a dcprovider not a babysitter, so I agree with blue rose.

In the future, I'd consider choosing a provider with a contract so you can avoid situations like this.

Wouldn't I be able to report her then for running a dayhome without having a permit and license?

[5 Little Monkeys]

What province are you in?

I don't know all the province rules but here in mb she would be fine and legal if she's a private daycare

Did she provide a receipt? That is mandatory in any province as she is required to claim her income.

[Ad1986]

What province are you in?

I don't know all the province rules but here in mb she would be fine and legal if she's a private daycare

Did she provide a receipt? That is mandatory in any province as she is required to claim her income.

But licenses must be for a reason? Otherwise no one would get them. No receipt, just my etransfer is my evidence, no contract, nothing stipulating I have to give notice to get my money back. She wasn't put out by my son not going, she already admitted to using the money to take the other kids on field trips!

[Ad1986]

Sorry I'm in alberta.

[torontokids]

In Ontario she can't have a license (unless with an agency). She can still operate without a license, she is just considered "private" not illegal.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Licenses allow for more kids and allow providers to offer subsidy. There are plenty of legal private daycares. Hopefully someone from AB can explain how it works there.

I'm not 100% sure but I would think your verbal agreement would stand. Without a contract I think you might be outta luck!

If I were you, I'd still send him and hit the pavement to find a new job. It would be much easier to find a new job without having a child tag along.

[Ad1986]

Licenses allow for more kids and allow providers to offer subsidy. There are plenty of legal private daycares. Hopefully someone from AB can explain how it works there.

I'm not 100% sure but I would think your verbal agreement would stand. Without a contract I think you might be outta luck!

If I were you, I'd still send him and hit the pavement to find a new job. It would be much easier to find a new job without having a child tag along.

I'm not sending him there again with someone like that. She also fed him really crappy, hot dogs and McDonald's. Morally I think she should give the money back. I wouldn't think twice about it if it were me. To give me attitude and demand that she's running a 'business' when she has no license or permit and that's how businesses work is ridiculous. We're talking informal babysitting out of someone's house. She smokes and just got married at the beginning of the month so I can see why she would want to keep it out of greed. But morally it's not right.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Unfortunately, it sounds like it will just be a big lesson to have learnt. Next time be sure to ask for a menu plan, if they smoke or not, what they do during the day etc and please make sure you have a contract!! It covers both parties in situations like these

I get that you're upset about not needing care anymore but in her defence, I'd likely do the same. I only request payment 2 weeks at a time but once money is paid there are no refunds. Of course We spend our money once paid, just like everyone else. She couldn't have known that you'd back out of the agreement so I don't think it was morally wrong for her to spend it or to say no refunds.

[Lee-Bee]

I'm not sending him there again with someone like that. She also fed him really crappy, hot dogs and McDonald's. Morally I think she should give the money back. I wouldn't think twice about it if it were me. To give me attitude and demand that she's running a 'business' when she has no license or permit and that's how businesses work is ridiculous. We're talking informal babysitting out of someone's house. She smokes and just got married at the beginning of the month so I can see why she would want to keep it out of greed. But morally it's not right.

You bash her, question her ability to legally watch children YET you PAID her to watch your own CHILD? What does this say about you? She is such a horrible person therefore you don't value/love your child enough to choose a better caregiver? Interesting...

Your money is no longer your money you paid it to her with the agreement to have her available to care for your child for the month of august...she is still there available to care for him so you broke the contract (verbal) therefore you do not receive money back. It is now her money to do as she pleases with.

[Ad1986]

You bash her, question her ability to legally watch children YET you PAID her to watch your own CHILD? What does this say about you? She is such a horrible person therefore you don't value/love your child enough to choose a better caregiver? Interesting...

Your money is no longer your money you paid it to her with the agreement to have her available to care for your child for the month of august...she is still there available to care for him so you broke the contract (verbal) therefore you do not receive money back. It is now her money to do as she pleases with.

I never questioned her ability to 'legally' watch my child, whatever that means. She is the school bus driver for my sons route and has a son of her own his age and I obviously wouldn't have sent him there if I knew what she was like beforehand. Duh! There are 4 days left in the month of August why the hell would I send him there now??

I just moved to this town and know nobody. My son is on a waiting list for daycare and I've already been screwed Over by a dayhome. She knew my situation. She also tried to increase the price the day before I started despite the fact we had an agreement all summer. One cannot be expected to stay in a situation where it is unconscionable to stay which is what the situation was for my job.

[lplplp]

You say that morally, she should give the money back. Morally, I don't think you should have asked for the money back. A daycare provider relies on their income just like everyone else does. Like others said, you had a verbal agreement. It is not the daycare providers fault that you took your child out. Also, running a home daycare IS a business. I'm in Ontario, but many providers here do not work for a licensed agency and we are still running a business. I'm not sure of the laws in Alberta but it's clear that you aren't either. You should do your homework and see what the rules are about licensing in your province. This provider could very well be running a legal, legitimate, unlicensed home daycare.

[lplplp]

Wouldn't I be able to report her then for running a dayhome without having a permit and license?

This implies that you think she is running an illegal daycare.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I think it's a matter of opinion whether she screwed you over or not. You had a deal you both agreed too, you paid her for it, she's available for the service you paid for but yet it is YOU that broke the contract. IMO, I don't think she screwed you over at all. If anything she gave you a deal. I am almost positive AB charges more than MB and a months care here is $600-700.

I'm sorry you felt the need to quit your job but to be fair that is on you, not your provider.

[Ad1986]

Of course I was getting a deal! Why should she get the same financial benefit as someone who was licensed and had a permit and was regulated by an agency without having those qualifications?! It would be a little different if she was a formal dayhome or daycare and had limited spots, but she wasn't.

I didn't just 'decide' to one day change my mind and not take him for NO reason. And yes, unless you have some sort of further education, accreditation, licensing, permit, or regulations to abide by then you ARE a just a babysitter!!!! And my money should not be going towards paying for OTHER children's activities!!!

[Ad1986]

And babysitters get paid for the time they babysit. It's common sense and common decency.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Have you found the rules for home daycares in ab yet? Also, if you knew all this before starting there, why did you choose her?

Also, had your child stayed there (like you agreed too) he would have gone on these trips too!

When you choose group care, your money goes to one big pot that benefits every child there.

It sounds like you may be better off finding a babysitter or nanny who can watch him before and after school until you get home from work

[5 Little Monkeys]

If she was a babysitter like you say than why didn't you just pay per day you went? Not many babysitters get paid a month in advance

[babydom]

In ont you do not have to have a licence to be a home daycare. Whether u are licenced or not we have to abid by the same rules. Check your province rules for home daycares. Chances are you'll find out she is abiding by the rules reguadless if she is licenced or not.

[Kellybelly83]

Babysitters also charge by the hour, and usually $7-10/hour in alberta. Assuming your son was in care 8 hours for those 9 days, it would have cost you the same amount anyway- or close to it. It's definitely annoying on your part that you paid for a full month and didn't use it, but like others have said it was in fact you that ended the agreement, she was still willing to fulfill her end of the bargain that you paid for. I'm saying that as a mom and a daycare provider. If I was in your shoes I would not expect my money returned.

[Van]

[QUOTE=Ad1986;78937]A sister of my fiances friend offered to watch my son for the month of August in her home as my 8 year old son was on a waiting list for the daycare and she has a son his age as well and was watching other kids during the summer. She offered to watch him for $500 for August as I was starting a new job at the beginning of August.

You were happy to have her take care of your son when you had the new job so let the money go and get busy finding a new job and move on

[Ad1986]

The issue is not my son not being able to enjoy those things as well in fact when I told her I quit she said well he should still come to this park because it's really fun then I never heard from her.

I am just really shocked at people's lack of empathy...if it were me I would've OFfERED the money back. Why should u pay me $250 to watch your kid when I didn't? I guess you would have had to be in other peoples situation to understand it fully. Knowing that she could not get in anywhere else and had no family to rely on and job turned out to be horrible I would've cut some slack. I am not a formal daycare with limited spots I am babysitting out of my home. Its informal one parent talking to another, like your neighbour. I don't care how bad I needed the money I just wouldn't feel right keeping it for something I wouldn't do. Paid in advance because that's what she requested so she could buy food for my son.

Everyone commenting about contracts is not a lawyer so thanks. I'll keep listening to the advice of my brother who is a lawyer.

[betsy]

Wouldn't I be able to report her then for running a dayhome without having a permit and license?

I had a client whose child I refused to accept when she came in for the third time in 2 months with lice!

That client reported me for "having 9 children" in the premises. Of course, the inspector came calling and was surprised to see that there were actually less children in the presmises. The inspector saw my sign-in/sign-out sheet (which was by the entry hall), and yes, I did have 9 children listed on it, but their attendance showed that I never had them at the same time, and that I never had more than 5 kids at any given time.

Why am I saying this? Your post remind me of that client.

I think it's utterly unfair to try to find fault so that you can report that dcprovider. You knew she didn't have a license or a permit, and you still decided to enroll your child with her! You are just a disgruntled client.



I am just really shocked at people's lack of empathy...if it were me I would've OFfERED the money back.

What about her? You don't know her financial situation!
You should've just continued taking your son there for the duration.....and should've used that time concentrating on finding a new job.

[mattsmom]

You're surprised at the lack of sympathy???? That is because you are getting responses from daycare providers that have dealt with people like you for many years. People who, as soon as it doesn't benefit them, pull their children out of daycare and don't think twice about the commitment that they have made to the provider.
We agree to watch children, keep a spot for them, and we rely on the income that this provides. We have bent over backwards for clients and have them backstab us in the end, because we have expected them to adhere to the contract they signed.
If you asked her to make the commitment of caring for you child, and she accepted, but you went back on it, why would she have to refund the daycare fees? And if you thought she was such an awful person and provider, then why did you let her watch your child in the first place? It is the parents responsibility to do their homework and check up on a potential provider, ask what qualifications she has, whether she smokes, has pets, what the children do during the day....ect.

In my opinion, this should be a lessoned learned for the next time you need a provider.

[lplplp]

The way YOU describe her, she sounds much more like a daycare provider than an "informal babysitter" in my opinion. I ask clients to provide me with 4 weeks notice in order to terminate care. This leaves me some time to fill the position with a new child so that I don't face any lost wages. If you agreed to place your son there for one month and pulled him out after 2 weeks with no notice, that leaves the provider NO time to try and find a replacement child to take your son's spot so that she isn't losing any income. You are the selfish one for thinking she should return your money. She was still willing to hold up her end of the deal. You didn't hold up your end.

[lplplp]

I didn't just 'decide' to one day change my mind and not take him for NO reason.

It doesn't matter what the reason was. You still were the one that didn't hold up your end of the deal!!

[BlueRose]

At the end of the day your personal problems are non of her business. This lady is running a business (offering a service) NOT a Charity. If you where to call your cable company mid month and cancel you still have to pay for the rest of the month. It doesn't matter why you are canceling. They will not return any money paid, because YOU decided to quiet your job. That is how business works.

It doesn't matter what you want to call this women: a provider or a babysitter either way she is still offering a service aka a business. You are now saying she should have been licensed, will it was YOUR responsibility to find out if she had a license before hiring her, NO MATTER what your situation is. It is NOT a providers problem if you choose to move to a city where you don't know anyone or if you decide to quite your job without having another one lined up. Everyone have problems and issues in there life, so figure out how to deal with yours without screwing over someone else because things didn't go your way.

I am sure you are currently not happy with me, because I am being so direct. Well I have dealt with people who want pitty and think others owe them, all my life and being direct and honest with them is the only way to be.

You broke your contract (verbal) now own up to it and deal with the consequence like a mature adult.

P.S. I have meet women who have up and left their homes with their children, moved away from their family and friends, just like you did. They still where responsible parents and took the time to find the right provider for their child(ren). They didn't take the first person who came along. So your whole I "didn't have the resources to find a good provider, due to my issues" don't fly at less not with me.

You said "I am just really shocked at people's lack of empathy..." We have a lot of empathy as people, but when we are dealing with clients (the parents) we need to be business women. And in business there is NO empathy. A lot of us have learned the hard way (dealing with clients like you) that we have to be like this. This doesn't mean that when we find respectful clients we don't do above and beyond to help them out.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I'd genuinely be interested to hear what your brother has to say on this. Please keep us updated.

If I remember right you said you worked in the legal field too? Did it not concern you that there was no contract?

I don't think it's a lack of empathy at all...at least not on her part but perhaps yours? If providers gave money back every time a parent hit a rough patch, they'd never make any money and couldn't stay in business.

Surely you can see it was you that backed out of a verbal agreement? How is she the one to blame??

[ahnys]

It seems that your entire argument rests on your belief that she is not a true daycare and is therefore not a business. You state it is like one neighbour helping out another, and that she does not have a limited number of spaces. Unfortunately, reality AND the province of Alberta would disagree with you. She is a daycare if she is providing care for children for more than 10 hours a week. She does NOT need to be licensed, regulated or accredited in ANY way in order to be a LEGAL PRIVATE UNLICENSED daycare. She must comply with the government rule that limits the amount if children she cares for (no more than six). It seems you have done no research before making sweeping assumptions about what she is in fact running.
And the fact that you have received a lack of empathy? You have come on to a child care provider website, and by association insulted and diminished a huge percentage of us who run unlicensed daycares and do not have degrees associated with child care, through pure ignorance on your part.

[crayolamom]

Lady, who do you think you are?

1. You find a daycare provider that is under charging. I provided care in Alberta and guess what?! My rates were $800 per month and one more shocker I WASN'T AFILIATED WITH AN AGENCY.
2. Daycare providers can't be licensed that doesn't exist. They can choose to be affiliated with an agency but many don't do that because they will loose a big cut of their income.
3.One thing that's amazing you talk a bunch of shit but still choose to take your kid there. Maybe don't quit your job and be a responsible parent and find another job before quitting.

No one will give you any kind of sympathy because it's parents like whos asses we kick to the curb. You wanted care for 1 month so you got it. I don't know any providers who would taken on a child just for one month. You got a great deal on childcare but remember you get what you pay for. She charges a low rate what did you think was going to be on the menu steak and lobster?

Now you want to report her bc she won't give you money back that is rightfully hers. Its not a providers problem that the parents are irresponsible.

It's like going to a restaurant and eating half your food than telling the waiter you want half your money back bc you don't want the other half. Lol insane

If you brother is in fact a lawyer than he should have told you that your only option is small claims court but I can let you know right now from experience that won't work out in your favour.

As for that babysitter crap I'm pretty sure my daughter gets paid 10 dollars per hour and you paid that women 2.5 an hour if that. Babysitters get paid at least min wage and daycare providers get paid let bc we get paid for have multiple children.

[mickyc]

Wow! Just wow! Totally agreeing with everyone here.

You broke the verbal contract. Too bad so sad! I too was a legal assistant and I can guarantee any good lawyer will tell you that you don't get a refund.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Do you think I'm entitled to half of it back since he wasn't there and she isn't a formal dayhome?

No.

You had verbal agreement that she would be available to provide care for August for a set fee. You quit your job as you are entitled to but that not mean she takes financial hit for your choices.

Who cares if it wasn't a formal day home? You were quite happy with her not being a formal day home when suited you for her to care for your child. Be thankful it was as casual as you imply, otherwise your hit would have been for more. Here, I charging $38 a day, 4 weeks notice required and paid regardless of attending. Had you changed mind here, it would cost you lot more than it did.

As legal secretary, you should have contacts to verify this for self. I'm guessing you already know that verbal agreement still hold weight, and in your carer, it make me wonder why you not insist on written contract, unless you hoping lack of would work your advantage.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Wouldn't I be able to report her then for running a dayhome without having a permit and license?

Seriously you are nasty piece work.

For someone in legal field your lack of research ability is dreadful.

It is legal to run an unlicensed daycare and not all provinces require a permit either. Unregistered, unlicensed day care are permitted in most provinces providing carer follows the ratios her province sets.

Big difference between unregistered/unlicensed day home and illegal one.

You showing self up by trying welch out of your fees verbally agreed to. You really showing self up wanting run and report someone when you quite happy for her to give care when it suited you.

As it happens, there no Mommy to tell tales with because in this instance, you are poorly informed.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Everyone commenting about contracts is not a lawyer so thanks. I'll keep listening to the advice of my brother who is a lawyer.

Then your brother sucks. My son lawyer and here having lunch. He shaking his head.

You changing story like the wind.

First the issue is not being refund. Then it suddenly awful menu and carer smoking. Bottom line, you had agreement, you broke it.

There no moral obligation in any business. Odd it morals that money come your way but no morals due to carer to honor deal you made.

You went for cheap care, knowing it cheap care. If you want call her babysitter instead of dayhome, that up to you but that not mean she have to refund you because now you wish you had money in your bag.

[Discoveries]

Wow Thank you Ad1986 for informing that I do not in fact run a business! I have been falsely under the illusion that I was a self-employed owner/operator of a home childcare business for nearly a decade now. Guess I can save myself a great deal of time, energy and expense at tax time. I'm sure the Canada Revenue Agency has just been confused all this time.

[33 Daiseys]

Sorry sweetie, EMPATHY doesn't pay the bills.
Why should it matter what she spent the money on? Do you have to explain to your employers where your pay check goes?
Hell, last summer I spent 1000.00 dollars on impulse on outside toys. Or that we will have gone to Florida twice this year.
Do you think the parents cared?
No, they pay me to WATCH the kids, what i do with MY money is my business.

[Dawn2Dusk]

I run a dayhome in the province of Alberta and I'm telling you she has done nothings wrong. Unless she has more than 6 children in her care not including her own children she is running a legal dayhome and is NOT a babysitter. I personally would never take on anyone without a contract but that's her choice I guess.

This completely your fault you did not do your research before hand, request a schedule, meal plan or parent guidebook. I give no refunds for unused days, it isn't her fault you quit your job.she is running a business and you agreed to follow her rules by placing your child in her care.

In Alberta being licensed simply means payments going threw an agency and random checks from the agency. If you go with a licensed dayhome you will be paying about 100 more a month and I promise you will never find respectable care in Alberta for 500 a month full time. Tell her legally she needs to give you a receipt.

Do your research from now on....

[kindertime]

Wow, there's a pile-up on the forum today....

From the OP:

Towards the end of August I asked if I could have $250 back as he was only there for 9 days.

So you pulled him out after 9 days but waited another week or two to ask for a refund? Hmmmm......

[dodge__driver11]

I find it interesting that you name a number of concerns regarding nutrition, and professionalism.

Why is it that these concerns only come out when a parent is trying to justify a refund or stiffing the provider/babysitter out of her owed fee?

I had something very similar happen to me recently, these parents were all to happy to be in my care, but when I enforced my contract, they were all of a sudden wondering about outdoor time, said I fed their child junk, that they did not know that my husband was his alternate etc. (It is made very clear that my husband is very much a part of my daycare)

Interesting that these concerns were never voiced until they were trying to justify pulling their children without notice....

Yep OP seems legit to me. (Please note sarcasm)

[betsy]

A sister of my fiances friend offered to watch my son for the month of August in her home as my 8 year old son was on a waiting list for the daycare and she has a son his age as well and was watching other kids during the summer.


Considering she's the sister of your fiance's friend......what are the chances that she thought she was doing you a favor by taking your child in for a month?


And considering that she's the sister of your fiance's friend......

.........lady, I'd just let this go, if I were you. In fact, if I were you, I'd even take the step to show that all's under the bridge now, and there's no hard feelings.

[Ad1986]

Wow Thank you Ad1986 for informing that I do not in fact run a business! I have been falsely under the illusion that I was a self-employed owner/operator of a home childcare business for nearly a decade now. Guess I can save myself a great deal of time, energy and expense at tax time. I'm sure the Canada Revenue Agency has just been confused all this time.

I was referring to the babysitter who does not have a business license or permit or issue receipts or taxes that is claiming to be running a business. Tell me how I'm wrong.

[Ad1986]

It seems that your entire argument rests on your belief that she is not a true daycare and is therefore not a business. You state it is like one neighbour helping out another, and that she does not have a limited number of spaces. Unfortunately, reality AND the province of Alberta would disagree with you. She is a daycare if she is providing care for children for more than 10 hours a week. She does NOT need to be licensed, regulated or accredited in ANY way in order to be a LEGAL PRIVATE UNLICENSED daycare. She must comply with the government rule that limits the amount if children she cares for (no more than six). It seems you have done no research before making sweeping assumptions about what she is in fact running.
And the fact that you have received a lack of empathy? You have come on to a child care provider website, and by association insulted and diminished a huge percentage of us who run unlicensed daycares and do not have degrees associated with child care, through pure ignorance on your part.


Babysitting out of ones house without a business license and not issuing tax receipts yet claiming to be a business is a business to you?

[Ad1986]

Working somewherewhere they don't beleive in doing tax forms to claim eligible dependants AND not having an accountant come in to do proper paycheques on pay day because 'she just didn't want to', so them telling you to just estimate how much you would think you make and potentially paying like $10,000 back at tax time, would you still want to work there?

[Ad1986]

I NEVER ONCE SAID I didn't have the resources to find a good provider, due to my issues. What issues?!?!? What the HELL does that even mean????

My son is on a waiting list for an actual daycare! I have called around to numerous dayhomes and they are al full! So given the fact that she was a sister of whatever my finances friend, has a son my sons age and is my sons bus route driver I thought she would be trusting enough to watch my son. She was the one that offered for $500 and yes dayhomes charge $800 or more but she doesn't not have the same licensing permit or accreditation as on so why should she get the same financial benefit as one without having the necessary qualifications? So she's a bus driver and probably collecting ei during the summer, while watching kids for cash out of her home yet claiming she's a business. Sounds pretty professional.

Also, I quit my job because they didn't do tax forms to claim eligible dependants, their accountant did not want to come in and do proper paycheques on payday because she just 'didn't want to' so they told me to just estimate how much I would think I made. Potentially paying back thousands of dollars back at tax time just doesn't sound like something I want to do, you? I didn't quit because I just didn't feel like working anymore!!!!!!!!

[lplplp]

Working somewherewhere they don't beleive in doing tax forms to claim eligible dependants AND not having an accountant come in to do proper paycheques on pay day because 'she just didn't want to', so them telling you to just estimate how much you would think you make and potentially paying like $10,000 back at tax time, would you still want to work there?

The reasons why you quit your job are completely irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the question you asked and nobody cares why you quit.

I really don't think anyone can explain this to you more than it's already been explained. You thinking the "babysitter" owes you your money back would be similar to you thinking that the job you quit from owes you the $250 you lost in child care expenses because you didn't like working there and thought you had to quit. Pretty ludicrous. No matter what the reason for quitting, it was still YOUR decision. You can't screw someone else over because of a decision YOU made.

The analogy made saying it's like eating half your meal at a restaurant and saying you only want to pay for half because you don't want the other half is pretty spot on. It's absolutely outrageous.

[lplplp]

Babysitting out of ones house without a business license and not issuing tax receipts yet claiming to be a business is a business to you?

Ok.... you send that as a response to someone explaining to you how it works in your province!!!!! It is not a matter of opinion whether or not this lady runs a daycare. That is what the laws in your province say!!!!!! Do you understand??

Also, you can claim child care expenses without receipts. The CRA may investigate her if she hasn't provided you with a receipt and she hasn't claimed the income. You do not need receipts.

[Discoveries]

She is operating an informal home childcare business. A permit or licence is not a requirement.

You are correct about the not issuing a tax receipt being wrong. Was that an agreement upfront in order to secure a lower childcare fee? If so, you understood you were to benefit from her fraudulent business practices. You can still contact her and state you intend to claim the amount and ask for a receipt. You could do this by email to have documentation of your request and her response. You can still claim the amount you paid in childcare even without a receipt, by entering her full name and address and amount paid. It may flag both you and her for further clarification if she opts not to to claim her income.

[33 Daiseys]

FYI, she has until March 31 2016 to issue you your receipt. I don;t care when a parent leaves they are MAILED a receipt on Feb 28 of every year.

[crayolamom]

I was referring to the babysitter who does not have a business license or permit or issue receipts or taxes that is claiming to be running a business. Tell me how I'm wrong.

I don't know what world you live in lady but I don't know any babysitters who need a permit or business license to work as a sitter. If she doesn't issue receipts and you are SOOOOOOO considered then why did you take your kids there?! Stop wasting peoples time and forum space it's your own fault and your not entitled to ANYTHING so mooove along!!

[crayolamom]

I NEVER ONCE SAID I didn't have the resources to find a good provider, due to my issues. What issues?!?!? What the HELL does that even mean????

My son is on a waiting list for an actual daycare! I have called around to numerous dayhomes and they are al full! So given the fact that she was a sister of whatever my finances friend, has a son my sons age and is my sons bus route driver I thought she would be trusting enough to watch my son. She was the one that offered for $500 and yes dayhomes charge $800 or more but she doesn't not have the same licensing permit or accreditation as on so why should she get the same financial benefit as one without having the necessary qualifications? So she's a bus driver and probably collecting ei during the summer, while watching kids for cash out of her home yet claiming she's a business. Sounds pretty professional.

Also, I quit my job because they didn't do tax forms to claim eligible dependants, their accountant did not want to come in and do proper paycheques on payday because she just 'didn't want to' so they told me to just estimate how much I would think I made. Potentially paying back thousands of dollars back at tax time just doesn't sound like something I want to do, you? I didn't quit because I just didn't feel like working anymore!!!!!!!!


You clearly didn't have the right resources considering you don't even make any sense. Just because some doesn't have a licensing permit (which doesn't even exist for home daycares) or accreditation (what the hell you even mean by that is beyond me) she run a home daycare and the going rate is $700-1300 for a HOME daycare. Providers have to pay for food, craft supplies, outings etc. something you didn't have enough resources to even figure. But then again it's common sense which is something you clearly lack of. If it's not professional why did you go there?

[crayolamom]

I NEVER ONCE SAID I didn't have the resources to find a good provider, due to my issues. What issues?!?!? What the HELL does that even mean????

My son is on a waiting list for an actual daycare! I have called around to numerous dayhomes and they are al full! So given the fact that she was a sister of whatever my finances friend, has a son my sons age and is my sons bus route driver I thought she would be trusting enough to watch my son. She was the one that offered for $500 and yes dayhomes charge $800 or more but she doesn't not have the same licensing permit or accreditation as on so why should she get the same financial benefit as one without having the necessary qualifications? So she's a bus driver and probably collecting ei during the summer, while watching kids for cash out of her home yet claiming she's a business. Sounds pretty professional.

Also, I quit my job because they didn't do tax forms to claim eligible dependants, their accountant did not want to come in and do proper paycheques on payday because she just 'didn't want to' so they told me to just estimate how much I would think I made. Potentially paying back thousands of dollars back at tax time just doesn't sound like something I want to do, you? I didn't quit because I just didn't feel like working anymore!!!!!!!!

No one gives a shit why you quit your job. The point is you quit your job before finding another forum of income and then since there was nothing left your bright idea is "let's screw the daycare provider over" Can't even afford daycare home good luck in a centre I highly recommend looking for back up but they will be getting rid of you and that's a given judging but your incompetence and attitude. :):laugh:

I am a former elementary teacher and I am not any better or any more qualified than someone who has no forum of education and just simply was a stay at home mom who wanted to do daycare. There's a 25 year old two streets down from me who runs an amazing daycare but doesn't have my qualification but (I will admit this myself) runs a program 100 times more better than mine. Once again lack of resources.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Agree with the others...the reason you quit your job has nothing at all to do with the story. Everyone has bumps in their lives but that doesn't mean we blame others.

You keep referring to her as a babysitter. When you agreed to send your child to her, were you under the impressesion she was a sitter or dcprovider? If she's s babysitter than I don't think she needs to issue a receipt. I also don't think she needs to refund the money because as it's been said (and surely you must agree) it was YOU who broke the verbal agreement.

If she's a hdcp, than yes she is required to give you a receipt by feb 28,2016. Have you asked her for a receipt?

Also, what did your lawyer brother have to say??

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Her brother should have told her that,

1. A verbal contract counts in the absence of written one.
2. Written contact has more weight as it proves the agreement. Every lawyer I know drills this into their friend and family. Mine son even wrote mine because it that important.
3. You can not create conditions of contract after the event. My son explained this as meaning just because when you made this arrangement, you didn't discuss what would happen if you left the day care/babysitter early, that does not mean you can automatically demand a refund unless that was discussed and promised as term of her providing care.
4. Full circle situation is, if you did discuss it and it was part of terms, now how can you prove without written contract? Which is why, verbal only work when both people in agreement.
5. You cancelled care due to your change in situation - quitting job. That not mean you can pass your changed financial situation onto someone else to deal with. Of course you entitled quit job but there is consequence to that. Just like if you had bought monthly bus pass to get into work, there is no refund for unused part you decided you needed at start of month.
6. I think you using the term babysitter to diminish her achievement and to minimize her role. That will bite you hard. If she really babysitter, that might mean she likely your employee. And if she your employee, then Labour Standard Rules might apply. If she just casual babysitter, then most don't have to give receipt. No teenage baby sitter write one up at end of the parent's monthly date evening.
7. If she day home, you should get tax receipt but she not have to give before end of Feb. like all other places have same time for tax related documents to be given out.
8. For $500, it sound like you negotiated a cash price. That is illegal to work under counter but you were part of the illegal deal too. A cash price will not give you receipt. And if you go to court, it likely that Judge won't support your claim for either refund or receipt because you are just as guilty as her for striking illegal arrangement. I think my son said it is known as having "clean hands". You not able to sue someone for their part in illegal transaction when you just as guilty. For instance, drug dealer couldn't sue customer who paid with forcery money because court must not reward him for selling illegal substances.
9. Basically, based on information you say, you are out of gas. As someone who claim to be legal secretary you should know how important it is to get everything in written. As someone whose brother is lawyer, then you likely have heard this million times from him.
10. Most answers here from day care providers. It 100% unanimous that no refund is due which very rare from what I seen here. Since we all agree, it likely that it very black and white situation. I hope your provider is reading this thread and experienced enough to stands her ground and not be hassled into backing down.

[ahnys]

Babysitting out of ones house without a business license and not issuing tax receipts yet claiming to be a business is a business to you?

Not only is that scenario a business to me, it is a business to the province of Alberta AND it is a business to Canada Revenue. She is running a business that the rest of the world recognizes as a business. Well, except for you.

You can continue to tell us what factors, in your opinion, would make it a legitimate business TO YOU, but unless you have a seat in parliament and are influential in the bill-making process, no amount of wanting it to be different on your part is going to make it be any different.

You might want to choose an easier battle, like convincing the sun it has no business setting, or the rain to just stop already.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

You not entitled to refund so get over it or sue her - and then Judge will tell you that not entitled to refund.

In meantime, make sure child's name on lots of waiting list with real day care because if this how you normally behave, you be getting your notice from real daycare soon after starting and will need another one.

[Kath]

In Alberta (specifically Calgary) no licensing is required for a dayhome with 6 kids or less.
I wouldn't be able to refund parents in a case like that as I save spots for people and it would mean lost income.
Without a contract that might protect you both, you're out of luck. Seeing as you are to become family, I would let it go. If you're not worried about your son's safety I would drop him off there while you search for a new job! A little McDonald's now and then isn't going to make a huge difference (my Dayhome kids would love that!!!!). I charge double that and still don't need permits or licenses - and I'm totally legit.
Life's too short to burn bridges.

[childcare]

I personally don't think she is wrong by not giving back the $250. In Ontario daycare providers do not need to be licenced. There are plenty of excellent private home daycares. The fact that she smokes and fed kids junk food etc.. Does not mean she isnt entitled to not give half the money back. I agree that is not very professional to smoke etc. But imo she doesnt need to give you money back.

[Prouser1]

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[Gustav]

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