Inspections - Ontario

[lplplp]

Hello Ladies,

As you Ontario providers know, the CCEYA is in effect. There have been quite a few inspectors visiting home daycares in my area over the last week. One inspection in particular raised some questions that I'm hoping maybe some of you could help with. This is mainly for unlicensed, private home daycares.

From what I heard about the inspection, this is what I know... The provider was told she had to let some kids go for being over the numbers. She was found to have 10 children but I was told that they were all part time and nothing overlapped where it would be putting her over the numbers... That obviously doesn't make much sense as she must have been over at times, or didn't have the proper documentation showing that nothing overlapped like that. She was given papers that the daycare parents have to sign allowing their children to be photographed and videotaped by the inspectors. So, of course they will probably be returning to this daycare to check that she is in compliance.

Here are my questions:
1) If an inspector comes without a warrant, what are all the documents you should have ready? (I'm aware that we need to provide our disclosure statement that has been signed by the parents stating we are not licensed by the Government of Ontario, attendance sheet with proper in/out times documented and I believe we also have to provide the first names, ages and birthdays of the children? Is that correct? Do we have to provide the first names, ages and birthdays without having permission from the parents first??)
2) Do you have the parents sign a form stating what the Ministry is allowed to do? What does it include? Do any parents have a problem with it?
3) Can an inspector enter your home without a warrant?
4) Can an inspector take pictures or videos of your home and children without a warrant?
5) If they are not able to take pictures or videos inside, can they still take pictures outside of your home without a warrant? (I was told they can take pictures of the documents you provide, etc. Is there anything else they take pictures of outside?)
6) For what reason would they show up WITH a warrant? Could this happen on a first visit? Or, would there have had to either been a previous issue or a complaint made?
7) What happens if a provider or parents do not want their children/home photographed or videotaped??
8) What is the purpose of the pictures and videos? I'm guessing this is for documentation that the provider either is or isn't in compliance. But, can't the inspectors just document that in their paperwork? Why the need for pictures and videos?

Sorry for so many questions! I'm not worried as I of course always plan to be in compliance. I'm more curious about how the inspections work and to be honest, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with them taking pictures and videos in my home and of the children.

I tried calling the Ministry and for some reason they don't have anyone to answer questions like this... I was told I have to email. Not sure why. I thought I'd ask on here first to see if some of you have some answers. Thanks!

[BlueRose]

1) warrant or no warrant? If you are with a licenced home daycare agency you have to let them in withOUT a warrant. If you are private, there is debate wheither or not you can force them to get a warrant or not

Personally I would let them in without one. I don't see the point in making things harder on myself. I don't have anything to hide. I would take their ID well they wait outside and call to verify they are who they say they are. I have been hearing that the inspectors are very nice and understanding.

Paperwork: by law the disclosure. Other then that I don't believe they have stated what other information they want.

this is what I have not sure if its needed
~ I have a monthly schedule (kids name and pick up/drop off times)

I have a binder just for the inspectors
- copies of my, my husband and my assistants police check
- copies of my and my assistants cpr/first aid
- copies of my Information for the Ministry of Education Inspectors (my disclosure form)
- copies of my tax receipts (once given to parents)


2) I have a form that gives me permission to had over my clients personal informtion: child's name, birthday, parents name and home phone. It also informs the parents want the inspectors can do once inside my dc, photos, contact them etc.
[a copy of this form can be found on www.homedaycarebusin ess.weebly.com, under contracts in with the contract forms (last pg)]

If parents don't want to sign it them they are not a good fix for my daycare.

4) According to the bill yes they can take photos/recordings. I don't believe they need a warrant to do so. Not sure if they need parents permission or not.

5) Once outside they can take as many photos and recordings as they please, without a warrant. I am not sure if they have to be off your property or not.

6) they can show up without a warrant for any reason they want. They can make something up and you can't prove that its a fake reason.

7) if a parent doesn't want their child photo or recorded then they will have to take it up with the ministry.

8) not sure. guessing if they see something unsafe or signs of abuse etc.


Ministry is only emailing because they are attaching a disclosure to their emails stating that they don't take responsibility for their answers and leaving things up to the inspectors to interrupt then new laws.

[lplplp]

Ministry is only emailing because they are attaching a disclosure to their emails stating that they don't take responsibility for their answers and leaving things up to the inspectors to interrupt then new laws.

That seems a little strange lol.

Thanks!! Do you have the phone number to call to verify the inspectors are who they say?

[BlueRose]

1-844-516-6263 to verify the inspectors.

[suzydominguez]

Blue rose would this be the same number that parents would call to speak with the ministry ?

[Isawitfirst]

lplplp what city are you located in?

[crayolamom]

Wooh! What in the world is going on? I didn't even know any of that what allowed and how in the world are they even finding private providers that aren't on any type of registry to inspect?

I am also a lost in understanding the logic with the 2 under 2 concept, maybe someone can shed some light because I tried doing my home work and found no answers (typical).

1. How can you implement a regulation that contradicts what is being done in daycare centres? Ex. home daycare providers can take in 2 infants but a center has a ratio of like 3-5 babies to one provider in a center? That alone just confuses me.
2. Apparently 2 under 2 was implemented due to safety reasons for home daycare providers so how do they plan on keeping track of everyone if they don't even know where everyone is?
3. Everyone kids apparently count within age restrictions of course (even moms picking up that have their school aged children). So if you can only have a certain amount of children on the address than what about condo or apartment buildings where there are multiple children living in that address. Yes, I know they live in different units but I was told if a provider rents out a space in her home (let's say basement) and the renter has kids they count in her number bc they live in that address?

Confused!
I just don't get it!

[BlueRose]

crayolamom they can find you ever easily. If you advertise, use a website etc they can find you. They can look up your phone number to get your address. They can call/email pretending to be "looking for daycare". If you run a home daycare there are ways of them finding you.

As for your other questions sorry can't help I am confused as well.

[crayolamom]

This is why I am so confused. I rent out my basement and those are two very separate living spaces. It's not like the person in the basement lives in my apartment. It makes no difference having someone live below me in a house with the same address but different unit numbers vs a building with the same address diff unit number how stupid!


And how would they know if someone was there for 5 mins vs. 10 mins

[crayolamom]

The property rental issue I am still waiting to hear back from the Ministry considering they don't like taking calls and want me to email everything. As for the 5 mins pick up my point is that how and why does it matter if a parent picks up for 5 mins vs 10mins so a 5 min difference could cause someone 200 000 makes no sense and I do not get the logic. Parents are expected to leave their children in the car meanwhile that's illegal. I am all for rule I think it's good to have structure but this is now getting in the way of living not just running a daycare.

[Van]

in BC if a child is with her Mom that child does not count in your ratio of children that you taking care of, as she is with Mom for a pick-up as she can't leave the child in the car

[playfelt]

The problem with the rental question is that it is hard for the ministry to know what you mean. If you have someone that rents your basement but uses your front door or you both access shared space like laundry it is very different than having converted your basement to an apartment, severed the ties to your house, firewall divide etc and they have their own door to enter and exit from the outside. You would have no idea what hours their child was in their apartment.

The reason to email is that at the bottom of all of the email answers they are putting a disclaimer that translates into the inspectors get the last word when it comes right down to it and then a judge will get to mediate.

[sandylynn]

Did I miss something, are they allowing 5 minutes for pick up (if they have another child with them)? Nonsense....absolute Nonsense, good luck with that one!

[playfelt]

They didn't put a time limit on the reply I read - ministry answer to the question about pickups and drop offs. The idea is that no the child can't come in to play while you and mom chat - they have to stand at the door while other child is readied for home and then leave.

[crayolamom]

This is a little overwhelming. I'm worried now I'm going to make a mistake by accident because I can't even use common sense anymore to understand.

Ps. In between my 2 posts on the first page someone deleted 2 posts stating if children and mom don't leave within 5 mins we can get fined 200 000. But what if I sneeze and told them up for another minute or two ill get fined? Really?

I feel like I'm in the baby mafia good lord!

[playfelt]

The reality is that even if it is 5 minutes unless the ministry is parked down the street observing your home - how's that for making one paranoid, lol. They won't know when the time started of parent arriving. If they are already there when parent comes I'm sure she would be making it quick or more than likely detained to be spoken to anyways. The likelihood of the ministry suddenly showing up at pick up time is not very likely since the goal is to catch us over our limits during the day not an extra child on our property for pickup since in a court of law I doubt a judge is going to uphold a fine because another adult did something beyond your control.