Overlap? No thanks!

[crayolamom]

Due to the amount of pit bulls of this form this post has been deleted!

[Wonderwiper]

I'm not exactly sure what your concern is?

You have said that everyone pays for a full time spot, whether they use everyday or not right? If this is the case then are you not "double dipping" and "selling" someone's spot to an occasional client?

Seems to me that all your spots are already full if everyone pays full time fees. If they choose not to come certain days then you have a lighter load that day but still earn full income.

Maybe i've misunderstood.

[Lee-Bee]

If they are paying for 5 days of care...then they are entitled to 5 days of care even if they change their mind last minute. The spot is theirs they can do as they please with it.

If they happen to not use a day then I suppose good for you for making an extra profit by filling the day...but this would have to be done last minute (as in the morning of) because until they don't show up that day you can't really fill it.

Maybe I am mistaken...are you filling the unused days and not charging the original family the days that you fill with someone else?

I think the family is in the right to change their days last minute (since they pay for all 5 days) you are in the wrong for being upset and trying to not let them. If I were them and I was told I couldn't change my mind about which portion of my full time spot I actually use I would leave. It is my spot...all 100% of it. I get any and all priority in using it.

[Lee-Bee]

I have a family that comes 3 days a week. If families choose not to come all 5 days they still pay the weekly fee as I do not charge per day. I also have a wait list of client who like to come for occasional care if a spot opens up that someone may not be using. I ask for everyone's schedule 2 weeks in advance and I have a family who likes to switch days last minute but gets upset if I can't switch. I have had issues in the past with families "switching" days and this has prevented us by doing certain activities ex playgroup that had to be paid for ahead of time because the exact number of kids weren't accounted for.

My issue is I have occasional drop offs that come in the spot isn't being used but other parents get upset if they can't come or change days last minute.


But even this isn't legit. If I am paying for a full time space then you should be paying for my kids place in outings even if I don't come that day...because I pay for you to do so. It is a reward for you on the day I keep my kid home because I pay for the spot anyways.

[dodge__driver11]

When a family pays for a space it is there for them. I do have a casual client that comes when my part times aren't attending, but they know this, and I NEVER DO IT FOR A FULL TIMER.

I have had instances where my part timer will switch days with the casual family, but we all make this arrangements upfront and in person. My casual family takes days that my part time family is not attending. The casual family knows that they can be bumped at any time.

I would never fill a perm. ft spot with another family as they are entitled to thier space, nor would I let my casual family take my pt'er's regular day without the other's authorization first, AGAIN THIS IS THIER SPACE.

[crayolamom]

But even this isn't legit. If I am paying for a full time space then you should be paying for my kids place in outings even if I don't come that day...because I pay for you to do so. It is a reward for you on the day I keep my kid home because I pay for the spot anyways.

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard of! Why would anyone pay for something someone isn't using lol you a paying for a part-time spot because you want to pick and choose your days not paying me for play groups??!! They are able to come when they want but I don't allow last minute changes for anyone. Period.

[dodge__driver11]

And situations like this (paying for full time, and not using all thier days) are why parents come regardless of whether they are at work or not. So not really sure what to offer here. You asked for advice we gave it.

I have a dad who works a number of casual jobs, and his schedule changes regularly, so he pays for the security of a space, and I MAKE ROOM for his child whether I have to cancel playgroup etc or not. These parents are PAYING for us to be available.

[ottawamommy]

I agree that this seems a little silly to be paying for something a child isn't attending, you would be lying if you said you all did this (maybe stop that to save some money) and I disagree that it's a "reward" for the provider. That comment was rude, it's actually not a reward if a family doesn't come and you get paid for it it's actually called a part-time family paying for flexibility and the provider being able to do that. She is giving them what they want but doesn't allow last minute changes. I don't see anything wrong with that if anything it's a smart way of making extra money and saving some. I do not allow for last minute changes either. Everyone is on a power trip right now but please keep in mind that many of you charge families for your vacation and sick days which I think is wrong in the sense that your not even working and expect to get paid.

[lplplp]

I would have to agree with the other comments. As a parent, if I was paying for a full time space, I would be PISSED if I had to change days and was told I couldn't because another child was attending that day. That is MY CHILD'S SPACE to use however and whenever needed. As a provider, I would not have another child attend JUST IN CASE my child who's parents are paying for the space need to come. Asking for everyone's schedule 2 weeks in advance so you can squeeze another child in for extra income is not something I would do, personally. You are already getting paid for the full time spots. Like others said, if the child doesn't attend, that's the bonus for you, an easier day. I have a supply teacher right now who pays for full time care because she does not know her schedule ahead of time and doesn't know when the child will be attending. I get informed only the morning of a lot of the time. This may be a little different than your situation but it's along the same line. I have to leave the whole week open for that child for WHENEVER they need to come. And how could I complain? I'm getting paid for the full time spot and the child doesn't even come everyday!

[dodge__driver11]

Although I agree with Ottawamommy in the sense that I do not pay for extra children to be somewhere, and the fact that we are not rewarded when families do not attend, I do not agree with the fact that you are allowing others to attend during another family's paid time.

I can almost guarantee you, that if you were honest about this, you'd have more than one person upset with you, and no one is on any trip, we are just giving our thoughts. :)

[superfun]

So, I just read it all, and I am not sure I'm understanding. At one point I thought you said they all paid for a full time spot, but then in another post, you say you're giving your part time families flexibility? So are they paying full time or part time?
If they were paying full time, and I was them, I would probably just plan to use them all, and if I didn't have to work on a particular day, I'd call in sick to daycare? I can't be the only one thinking that?

[5 Little Monkeys]

I think if a family is paying ft than the spot is theirs. They can come any day they want and they shouldn't have to give me 2 weeks notice of when they'll be there. I understand not wanting to be a drop in centre but IMO that is more so for when parents come and go as they please during the day (like showing up at 11am one day, 9 the next etc).

It is completely a reward if a parent pays you but doesn't bring their child. It gives you a lighter load for that day.

I can understand why a parent would be upset with this agreement. If you're making me pay ft than that is MY spot and I'll want to use it when it's convenient for ME.

If you want to do this, than I think you should be reimbursing the parents for days you find another child to come. If not, you are being paid twice for one spot and for me, that is wrong! I wouldn't want that done to me so I don't do that to others

Also, I'm sure all play groups are different but here, you pay if you go so I wouldn't be out any money anyways. Some even just charge per group not per person. Come to think about it, none of my outings are prepaid so that's a non-issue. However, you are being paid for that child to be there so whether they go or not shouldn't matter too much anyways because you aren't technically out any money.

[ottawamommy]

I use to do this and it did get complicated at times but no one got upset about it everyone understood. I took on extra kids on a day a child might not be there in order to make a little more income that way I didn't have increase my rates. It got too complicated for me so I just increased my rates and let people come and go as they pleased. No it's not a reward if that child doesn't come they are paying for flexibility.

[5 Little Monkeys]

So where's the flexibility than?? A parent pays for all 5 days but can only use 3 if they don't give 2 weeks notice....doesn't sound like something that I'd agree too. It's a reward in my eyes

I agree that making extra money is nice but IMO there are right and wrong ways to do this. Increasing your fee seems like the better choice

Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :)

[Lee-Bee]

They are NOT paying for flexibility they are paying for full time care but are only allowed to use it part time with 2 weeks notice.

The caregiver should ASSUME that child is attending each and every day and plan to provide food and outings as if that child was going to be there. If they don't show up they don't show up...it's on the parents tab not the caregivers. The only difference to the caregiver is that some days they have less work as one kid doesn't show up.

As a caregiver I find it unethical to charge full time care and only allow part time access to that spot. You are not providing the services paid for. As a parent I would up and leave. I'm surprised they haven't already.

If you want to fill the empty days to make some bonus cash so be it...but it should NEVER prevent the family from using the day that they need and they paid for.

This does not compare to paid vacation. During vacation your daycare is closed for a pre-agreed upon time and is not available to any of your daycare families. In this case the daycare is open...but another child is using a space that belongs to a different child and is preventing a family from using the services paid for. I would call that a breach of contract and would terminate care.

[ottawamommy]

What do you call a parent who only needs part-time care and needs different days not set ones?! ITS CALLED PAYING FOR FULL-TIME IN ORDER TO GET ANY 5 DAYS!!! She is giving them what they want no where did she say on this form that they aren't allowed to come full-time just that she doesn't allow last minute changes. Nowhere did I read that this family needed fulltime it clearly stated they needed part-time and wanted to switch days. As for your vacation, you are charging someone for a service that you are not providing how is that ethical?? You claim that you are self employed but want employee benefits of getting paid on your sick days and vacation days then complain for days on this form how to save money and your logical way of thinking is taking seconds and thirds away from hungry children at meal times in order to save money but you buy food and pay for playgroups for children that aren't even there that day? Awesome problem solving skills :thumbup:

Many are on this trip "OH WELL IF I PAY FOR FULL-TIME I SHOULD GET TO COME WHENEVER I WANT AND WHEN I WANT"

No you can't beucase if you did without giving me a 2 week notice then your pick up/drop offs would be all over the place turning my bsiness into a drop off center

[ottawamommy]

So, I just read it all, and I am not sure I'm understanding. At one point I thought you said they all paid for a full time spot, but then in another post, you say you're giving your part time families flexibility? So are they paying full time or part time?
If they were paying full time, and I was them, I would probably just plan to use them all, and if I didn't have to work on a particular day, I'd call in sick to daycare? I can't be the only one thinking that?

Some parents only want part-time care but don't want to be restricted to certain days. Many families don't just want to dump their child off to daycare. It's not always about money with everyone some people actually want to spend time with their children.

[mimi]

If a f/t client isn't using their space that day and you fill that spot with one of your occasional clients, then I would not charge f/t client for that day. That is the honest thing to do especially since you don't allow your f/t clients access to their paid for spot due to a last minute schedule change. If you don't, it is double dipping and as your client I would not tolerate it.

The argument regarding paid holidays/sick days in comparison to this analogy is mute as it is a different issue regarding a separate contract agreement that is about being decent to your daycare provider. Like myself, some providers do not charge for these days and that is up to them. For those that do charge for these days it may be the norm in their area as in mine it is not.

[5 Little Monkeys]

What do you call a parent who only needs part-time care and needs different days not set ones?! ITS CALLED PAYING FOR FULL-TIME IN ORDER TO GET ANY 5 DAYS!!! She is giving them what they want no where did she say on this form that they aren't allowed to come full-time just that she doesn't allow last minute changes. Nowhere did I read that this family needed fulltime it clearly stated they needed part-time and wanted to switch days. As for your vacation, you are charging someone for a service that you are not providing how is that ethical?? You claim that you are self employed but want employee benefits of getting paid on your sick days and vacation days then complain for days on this form how to save money and your logical way of thinking is taking seconds and thirds away from hungry children at meal times in order to save money but you buy food and pay for playgroups for children that aren't even there that day? Awesome problem solving skills :thumbup:

Many are on this trip "OH WELL IF I PAY FOR FULL-TIME I SHOULD GET TO COME WHENEVER I WANT AND WHEN I WANT"

No you can't beucase if you did without giving me a 2 week notice then your pick up/drop offs would be all over the place turning my bsiness into a drop off center


I don't charge for my sick days or when on holidays. I also don't get paid twice for one spot. I'm not on a power trip (not sure why it would be considered that anyways??), it's just how I run my business based on what I feel is fair and right.

As for saving money....it makes sense to cut back where you can (no child needs 3rd helpings at this age, that's how obesity starts IMO) but it doesn't make sense to take advantage of parents. I know you don't think you are but IMO (and obviously others) you most certainly are.

Also, IME, parents who are pt often need to change their schedule. If they pay for a ft spot than this should be allowed as it should be no issue, it's THEIR spot. 2 weeks notice is far too much IMO. If they're only paying for pt than no, changes can only happen if you can make it work.

As a side note, are you and the OP the same person? Just wondering...

Also, you said it yourself....this family needs pt but wants to be able to switch days so yes they DO need ft and because of that, they PAY ft!! But yet can't switch days unless 2 weeks notice is given. Like others, I'm shocked parents agree to this as it's ridiculous!

[mickyc]

I am a little late to the discussion! The original post has been deleted so I am not certain what it says. Here is my opinion based solely on what everyone else has said.

If a family is paying for full time it is available for them full time. I would never ever refuse care. I have however taken a casual child on a day my full time child is away. I do not refund the full time parent any money.

I currently have a teacher's child. I already know she will be away for Christmas and spring break. During that time she still pays (I charge a holiday rate of $25 a day). During those time I usually have an older sibling attend. I am getting paid 2x for one spot. If teachers mom ever decided to use the space it is hers and she would get the space over anyone else.

I will also mention I do not charge for my holidays or sick days.

Not sure about the thread about serving kids seconds and thirds as I didn't read it. For myself kids get 1 helping and that's it. There are no seconds and thirds. I serve portions the right size for the child and that's it. Never had a kid ask for more.

[dodge__driver11]

Ottawamommy: As for your vacation, you are charging someone for a service that you are not providing how is that ethical?? You claim that you are self employed but want employee benefits of getting paid on your sick days and vacation days then complain for days on this form how to save money and your logical way of thinking is taking seconds and thirds away from hungry children at meal times in order to save money but you buy food and pay for playgroups for children that aren't even there that day? Awesome problem solving skills

Many are on this trip "OH WELL IF I PAY FOR FULL-TIME I SHOULD GET TO COME WHENEVER I WANT AND WHEN I WANT"

No you can't because if you did without giving me a 2 week notice then your pick up/drop offs would be all over the place turning my business into a drop off center

LOL, some heads are going to roll when some read the remark about taking seconds or thirds away from littles. Them's fightin' words..LOL

Here's how I handle my drop off's and pick ups. All my families must call me by 8 AM the day of, to say that they are not going to be here. If I do not get a call by 8 AM saying they are going to be absent I prepare for them to be here, and even so if after forty mins (Of course I allow for extenuating circumstances) then it is assumed that care is not needed for the day. I have yet to have that happen, because I make this clear during my interview. That, we as a daycare have a schedule, and it must be adhered to.

Too, when my perm. families are choosing there times I allow them to drop off until 11 AM each day (They choose at contract signing) This way I know how much to make for lunch, and they are here by 9 am most times because they know that if they choose to drop off any later that they miss morning park time and snack.

But for my casual job dad I always assume he is going to be here until my cut off drop off time of 11 AM each day, but he is very good about letting me know when he is working because he understands that others depend on my daily schedule, and he is considerate of this, as best as possible.

Once I know for sure who is going to be absent, then and only then do I open this up for casual bookings.

I have no idea how this became about vacation, but my contract and days of rest are perfectly legal, because I charge an enrollment fee, and reimburse when required based on the number of days in the month divided by their monthly rate.

ETA: I allow for a 10 hour WITH drive time, anything over that is over time, and a separate fee is attached. I do not allow early drop offs and have made parents wait outside in the car to prove that this does not happen here. Also if you are changing your regular drop off and or pick up, the family must inform me by phone...no other way...with 24 hours notice and a small charge that they are changing their times. Again, I have yet for this to happen as everyone knows I am 100% serious about this

[Van]

When a parent is paying for f/t and only use p/t then they are paying for f/t and it is their days not the casual parents that are on the sideline waiting to see if they can come to daycare
IMO the f/t parents shouldn't need to tell their plans for 2 weeks in advance
it is double dipping to get the extra money which is fine if it works for the f/t parent and the casual and your ratio of kids but if the f/t parent wants the extra days she has 1st take on these days or someone is taking her days away which is so unfair to the f/t parent
I care for infant/toddlers so no way would I take a casual inf or toddler as they are so much work

[kindertime]

Perhaps some clarification is in order....from the OP, even though it was erased;


Originally Posted by crayolamom

I have a family that comes 3 days a week. If families choose not to come all 5 days they still pay the weekly fee as I do not charge per day.

She charges by the week, not the day. Perhaps it's a bit of semantics, but that may make a difference in the argument for her situation. BTW, not taking a side, but I didn't "get" that, the first time I read the OP.

[superfun]

Some parents only want part-time care but don't want to be restricted to certain days. Many families don't just want to dump their child off to daycare. It's not always about money with everyone some people actually want to spend time with their children.

I didn't say I would be sending my child every day, I said I would tell the provider I needed all the days, and then keep my child home on the days I didn't need. That sounds like the only way I could be sure I could use a different day, if my schedule changed.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Op, I think it's highly childish to delete your post and blame it on the "pit bulls of this site". I don't think anyone attacked you but maybe tried to open your eyes to how your agreement comes across and how it's unfair to some parents.

I think maybe you are feeling guilty and realized what we said was maybe how you should ethically approach this situation in the future? At least I hope this is the case :) taking advantage of clients is never a good thing!

There are many different ways to run our dc's but when it comes to us or parents being taken advantage of, I find the majority of us agree that is wrong and stand up for what is morally right.

[crayolamom]

There is nothing wrong with what I do and I will continue to do it. If someone signs a contract with me and tells me they will never need Mondays but want the spot or if we agree to contract hours/days and all of a sudden they want to switch days and pick up/drop off hours, to bad! I was told one thing so I scheduled my other families hours around our schedule. Majority of you on this form wouldn't allow parents to pick and change their days change drop off/pick up hours last minute. I also allow parents to pick up during nap time in order to help accommodate what they need as MANY of you do not allow this. So next time you want to go off about how unethical someone is or how someone is taking advantage of someone remember that another provider may do more then another provider in a different way. As for the money thing , they pay a weekly fee not a daily one and as for children not needing 2nds or 3rds hmm your not a dietician so I would hold off on remarks because I am pretty sure last time I talked to my doctors kids are growing/active and do require more food at time and by restricting them food that would be a form of neglect.

[5 Little Monkeys]

There is nothing wrong with what I do and I will continue to do it. If someone signs a contract with me and tells me they will never need Mondays but want the spot or if we agree to contract hours/days and all of a sudden they want to switch days and pick up/drop off hours, to bad! I was told one thing so I scheduled my other families hours around our schedule. Majority of you on this form wouldn't allow parents to pick and change their days change drop off/pick up hours last minute. I also allow parents to pick up during nap time in order to help accommodate what they need as MANY of you do not allow this. So next time you want to go off about how unethical someone is or how someone is taking advantage of someone remember that another provider may do more then another provider in a different way. As for the money thing , they pay a weekly fee not a daily one and as for children not needing 2nds or 3rds hmm your not a dietician so I would hold off on remarks because I am pretty sure last time I talked to my doctors kids are growing/active and do require more food at time and by restricting them food that would be a form of neglect.

1. I think the majority of us would allow the parents to change their days if they're PAYING for it. A weekly fee is no different than a daily fee...they're paying for the WEEK and are entitled to come. I agree that they should give you a time for drop off and pick up though. If you want to double dip that's fine but like others have said, the first parent should ALWAYS get first chance at the day. I'm assuming you haven't had much issue with this because lots of parents haven't needed to do this yet and don't realize that they will be told no for a day they've paid for

2. I also allow pick up time during nap

3. I'm not a dietician but doctors aren't either right? That's why they send you to dieticians when needed. There are ample articles online that will help you determine how much baby and toddlers need. I have one printed and hanging on my cupboard for quick reference. If you are giving them healthy, balanced, appropriately sized meal and snacks than no, 2nds and especially 3rds are not needed. Just as too little food is a form of neglect, so is too much!! I will give seconds if they've eaten their whole meal and want more but never thirds...that's just irresponsible and in excess IMO.

[superfun]

If you're reading this while you're calm, I think you'll see that everyone that replied to the original post is trying to be very reasonable. Your posts are the only ones that are defensive and angry sounding. I don't know if you mean to sound like that or not, but that's how it is coming across.

By your standards, I'm doing pretty well. I give the kids second servings if they eat all of their first serving. I allow pick up during nap times, I'm flexible with my drop off times, is there anything else? But I would still always let the first family have a day (or week) they paid for. The second drop in family would have to make other arrangements.

[mickyc]

I think I need a bit of clarification. So they pay a weekly fee for their 4 days and never use Monday. They all of a sudden want a Monday and you say no. Is their "weekly fee" the same as someone who comes 5 days? Is it less because they only use 4. Honestly if they are paying the same as the 5 day a week people then you should not be telling them no if they want a Monday all of a sudden. Just my 2 cents.

Not feeding a child seconds or thirds is neglect?! Lol. Ummm, regardless if they are growing one helping should be plenty. Obviously the helping sizes are too small if they ask for 2nds often

[MsBell]

Im going to jump in on this (even though I wanted to avoid)
I think if they are paying a weekly fee, and contracted for certain days ie tuesday, wednesday, friday, then, regardless of how much they are paying, they are NOT entitled to switch. but if they are paying a weekly fee, for five days with an understanding that they have that spot, then they are. How much they pay doesnt matter, that is mute. I have some parents paying more just because they are new, and I raised my fees, the older clients will not pay more until I raise my rates. Lots of providers will charge more per day for kids that only come 2-3 days.for example 5 days of care is $40/day or 200 a week, but 3 days of care $50/day or $150 a week, and the weekly rate applies regardless of attendance.
Also, even if they are paying for five days, with the understanding that they will be changing the days needed, I feel like a 24-48 hour notice is required (2 weeks is too long, but 24-48 hrs reasonable)
so, I have to side with the OP in this (if I am understanding the situation)

[ahnys]

I side with the op too. Let her run her business any way she sees fit. Either parents will agree to it or they won't, in which case they'll leave. Either way it is no one else's concern. Personally I do not charge clients for vacation or sick pay. To me, even if it is only to me, it seems untoward. But if others see it differently they should go ahead and do what makes sense to them.

[dodge__driver11]

Crayolamom: There is nothing wrong with what I do and I will continue to do it. If someone signs a contract with me and tells me they will never need Mondays but want the spot or if we agree to contract hours/days and all of a sudden they want to switch days and pick up/drop off hours, to bad!

Dodge: Honey, sorry, but yes there is, you are double dipping plain and simple. You charge your families a weekly f/t fee, and demand that they give you their schedule two weeks before hand to squeeze in other families? This is not full time care, it is part time, with a full time rate. Deleting your post won't change that you are dishonest. And, though we all operate differently, and have different things that are important to us, the majority say this is the case.

Crayolamom: I was told one thing so I scheduled my other families hours around our schedule. Majority of you on this form wouldn't allow parents to pick and change their days change drop off/pick up hours last minute. I also allow parents to pick up during nap time in order to help accommodate what they need as MANY of you do not allow this. So next time you want to go off about how unethical someone is or how someone is taking advantage of someone remember that another provider may do more then another provider in a different way.

Dodge: That's right we all do it a different way, but calling us out on something that is not double dipping is YOU diverting from the fact, that you are doing what you are doing, and as a parent if I found this out, I would leave your care, and find out if there was anything I could do from a legal standpoint if there was anything I could do to get my money back.


Crayolamom: As for the money thing , they pay a weekly fee not a daily one and as for children not needing 2nds or 3rds hmm your not a dietitian so I would hold off on remarks because I am pretty sure last time I talked to my doctors kids are growing/active and do require more food at time and by restricting them food that would be a form of neglect.

Dodge: Again, the classic diversion. None of us were ever rude, we were to the point, you all of a sudden made this post about vacation, and serving sizes when that was not your original question at all.......and then accused us of being pitbulls when we thought your actions were questionable.

I don't get it.

[mickyc]

For myself I have never understood the contracted hours thing. I didn't read the initial post as it was deleted so this all could be a miscommunication? If you have a set weekly fee for certain contracted hours then by all means tell them no if other days/times are not available.

For myself I only have full-time kids and everyday is available to them. They can come and go as they please within my operating hours, I just ask for a text if they are going to be earlier or later. I do "double dip" as I do take an older sibling on Christmas and spring break when another child is away (and still paying me).

Without the Initial post its hard to respond as I was late to the argument

[dodge__driver11]

For myself I have never understood the contracted hours thing. I didn't read the initial post as it was deleted so this all could be a miscommunication? If you have a set weekly fee for certain contracted hours then by all means tell them no if other days/times are not available.

For myself I only have full-time kids and everyday is available to them. They can come and go as they please within my operating hours, I just ask for a text if they are going to be earlier or later. I do "double dip" as I do take an older sibling on Christmas and spring break when another child is away (and still paying me).

Without the Initial post its hard to respond as I was late to the argument

Micky I would not consider this double dipping, as the family contracted to this space has first dibs right?

[mickyc]

Yes definitely. But she's a teacher and always away for Christmas and spring break. I don't charge her for summer and the older sibling fills that space then

[ahnys]

Not my battle here, but I am curious. Is "double-dipping", as it is being called, morally wrong, legally wrong, or smart business practice? Many of us call ourselves first and foremost a business, yet express negative judgment toward a provider who has found a way to maximize her earnings, legally and transparently. I didn't perceive from her posts that she was doing anything in a sneaky way, or otherwise misleading her full-time families. Again, parents have agreed ahead of time to adhere to a schedule given weeks before, and everything is above board.

We work on an industry that has very limited potential for earnings. She has found a way to earn extra income on days she has a vacancy. As far as I know there is no law that says we can be paid only once per space. I don't do this, but I actually think it's kind of genius.

[crayolamom]

Dodge you might want to re read that post above then come back to me about being rude and double dipping "honey". I sign parents on a contract that point out their days and hours and DEPENDING on the amount of days they want they pay a certain fee.

I got this idea from an older post ON THIS FORM where someone was coming to their home daycare 4 days a week, had to pay full time rates and that 5th day was never made available to them.

That is not what I do, I give parents the option of how many days and what days they want. If they only come 4 days I charge 100 less per month IF they want all days available they pay full time regardless. I set my fees corresponding to the flexibility they need and how often they come.

That's not my issue my issue is parents who claim they NEVER need a day or we sign on contract and all of a sudden they want that day but that was fill will drop offs. That's too much confusion and too much of a run around. Agreed that 2 weeks may be too long but I will work around that. BUT if I sing someone for 4 days a week and they don't need the 5th day then they want to change their mind TOO BAD because that would breach of contract and the right for instant termination.

I run my business how I want and I have never had an issue. Majority of you want to give me shit for "double dipping" but I remember not too long ago running errands on the job was okay lol in the end if majority rules lets shit on the other providers which is why majority (not all some of the ladies on this form are wonderful) of you were referenced as pitbulls! Exhibit a dodge drive who wants to talk about diversion about me claiming people are rude meanwhile I'm referenced to as honey lol ground breaking

[5 Little Monkeys]

Not my battle here, but I am curious. Is "double-dipping", as it is being called, morally wrong, legally wrong, or smart business practice? Many of us call ourselves first and foremost a business, yet express negative judgment toward a provider who has found a way to maximize her earnings, legally and transparently. I didn't perceive from her posts that she was doing anything in a sneaky way, or otherwise misleading her full-time families. Again, parents have agreed ahead of time to adhere to a schedule given weeks before, and everything is above board.

We work on an industry that has very limited potential for earnings. She has found a way to earn extra income on days she has a vacancy. As far as I know there is no law that says we can be paid only once per space. I don't do this, but I actually think it's kind of genius.

For me, it's morally wrong and a dumb business move. Yes, it may give you some extra money in the short term but long term, I don't think parents would be happy about it. I still think the first family paying for the spot should be given first dibs. I just don't understand charging parents ft but than saying they can't come. Like superfun said, I would think most parents (when they catch onto what's happening) would just say they need all 5 days and than call in 1-2 days saying they don't need care. That's the only way they're guaranteed care for whenever they want.

[dodge__driver11]

I am out, you don't see my point at all... LOL and Honey is not rude, its a term I use...

See ya :) I am gonna go enjoy my tea now that I have done dishes cleaned up lunch etc. You can divert and dodge all you want, getting pissy with me, because I told you what I FELT, was the right thing to do.

Don't make this about other shit as you call it, because we don't agree.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Dodge you might want to re read that post above then come back to me about being rude and double dipping "honey". I sign parents on a contract that point out their days and hours and DEPENDING on the amount of days they want they pay a certain fee.

I got this idea from an older post ON THIS FORM where someone was coming to their home daycare 4 days a week, had to pay full time rates and that 5th day was never made available to them.

That is not what I do, I give parents the option of how many days and what days they want. If they only come 4 days I charge 100 less per month IF they want all days available they pay full time regardless. I set my fees corresponding to the flexibility they need and how often they come.

That's not my issue my issue is parents who claim they NEVER need a day or we sign on contract and all of a sudden they want that day but that was fill will drop offs. That's too much confusion and too much of a run around. Agreed that 2 weeks may be too long but I will work around that. BUT if I sing someone for 4 days a week and they don't need the 5th day then they want to change their mind TOO BAD because that would breach of contract and the right for instant termination.

I run my business how I want and I have never had an issue. Majority of you want to give me shit for "double dipping" but I remember not too long ago running errands on the job was okay lol in the end if majority rules lets shit on the other providers which is why majority (not all some of the ladies on this form are wonderful) of you were referenced as pitbulls! Exhibit a dodge drive who wants to talk about diversion about me claiming people are rude meanwhile I'm referenced to as honey lol ground breaking

Many of your posts (on this and other threads) come across as rude, defensive and mean. It's hard to have a conversation with someone like this. Double dipping and running errands are 2 different things. Again, it's hard to keep up with you because you keep bringing up irrelevant points that are different than your op.

[mickyc]

So I am not sure what your main point to the thread was. Like I said I missed the first post. So by what you just said you run off contracted hours charging less for those who don't need 5 days. So a family wants to switch days now? It's an easy no is it not because someone else has the other contracted hours?

If that's the case this whole thread is pointless. Or am I missing something?

[5 Little Monkeys]

So I am not sure what your main point to the thread was. Like I said I missed the first post. So by what you just said you run off contracted hours charging less for those who don't need 5 days. So a family wants to switch days now? It's an easy no is it not because someone else has the other contracted hours?

If that's the case this whole thread is pointless. Or am I missing something?

I agree, if that's the case than of course saying no would be reasonable and no double dipping would be occurring.

Her first post said she charges ft though and if they don't give 2 weeks notice they are not allowed to change as she's filled it with casual care.

It's confusing to follow as she's changing the story it seems? I'm not sure anymore!! Lol

[dodge__driver11]

So I am not sure what your main point to the thread was. Like I said I missed the first post. So by what you just said you run off contracted hours charging less for those who don't need 5 days. So a family wants to switch days now? It's an easy no is it not because someone else has the other contracted hours?

If that's the case this whole thread is pointless. Or am I missing something?

I think I may have totally missed the boat here, I seem to recall her OP being about a family paying a full time rate, and wanting to switch days without two weeks notice, and that's when the bulk of us said that we FELT it was wrong to charge a full time weekly fee if only giving part time access.

I for one, do not recall her mentioning contracted hours at all, now she does? I am very confused.

I too have contracted hours, but this is not how I do it at all, not even close, but that's cool.

[crayolamom]

5 little monkeys you claim its hard having a conversation but have no problem coming back and commenting after everything I say, I would argue that's a little hypocritical.

I am a business so I operate as a business, there a pros and cons and no daycare is perfect not even a free one everyone runs a different program. So the fact that you want to bash me and tell me that I double dip or I'm morally wrong go heah. Would it be better if I went over my number and didn't give a shit about the rules at all. There are no rules this is my business and I make the rules and if they don't like it GOODBYE. They know when they sign my contract what I expect from them and tell me what they expect from me and if it isn't a match MOVE ON. I found a way to maximize my income LEGALLY and because there is nothing illegal about that it's morally wrong. Move along

[crayolamom]

I think I may have totally missed the boat here, I seem to recall her OP being about a family paying a full time rate, and wanting to switch days without two weeks notice, and that's when the bulk of us said that we FELT it was wrong to charge a full time weekly fee if only giving part time access.

I for one, do not recall her mentioning contracted hours at all, now she does? I am very confused.

I too have contracted hours, but this is not how I do it at all, not even close, but that's cool.


I thought you were getting a tea ?

[dodge__driver11]

I did, and its good, thanks for the entertainment!

I dealt with a crying baby and I need it, it's like a trainwreck, hhahaha, I can't look away..... Help.

[crayolamom]

Was is iced tea bc that was quick :) if not share you tea cooling secrets I would love to know :)

[5 Little Monkeys]

5 little monkeys you claim its hard having a conversation but have no problem coming back and commenting after everything I say, I would argue that's a little hypocritical.

I am a business so I operate as a business, there a pros and cons and no daycare is perfect not event a free one everyone runs a different program. So the fact that you want to bash me and tell me that I double dip or I'm morally wrong go heah. Would it be better if I went over my number and didn't give a shit about the rules at all. There are no rules this is my business and I make the rules and if they don't like it GOODBYE. They know when they sign my contract what I expect from them and tell me what they expect from me and if it isn't a match MOVE ON. I found a way to maximize my income LEGALLY and because there is nothing illegal about that it's morally wrong. Move along

Well seeing as how having a conversation means different things to us, I guess this one is over lol. After your snide comments to dodge, I'm not interested anymore anyways.

[ottawamommy]

I tried so hard not to say anything but I cant help it. Are you people valid?! You belittle the women by calling her honey (don't play stupid and innocent we all know exactly what context you meant that in) then you say your out of the conversation and pop back in for some more drama, then the women called you out on it by asking you where the hell your tea was and you make a smart ass remark and it's crayolamoms who has made snide comments according to 5 little monkeys because she doesn't agree with out crayolamom runs her business. GROW UP.

[dodge__driver11]

Holy cow all this over tea, my goodness, who knew? Who cares..LOL

[ottawamommy]

it worries me that you think this is just about "tea"

[BlueRose]

Crayolmom - is your fee a "weekly fee" or a "flat enrollment fee" that is paid weekly?

If its a weekly rate then I do understand what the others are saying. If a parent pays for the full week they should be allowed to use the full week.

BUT

If you have a flat enrollment fee for your program. That different. They come on their scheduled days. You fill in the other days with drop in kids. A flat enrollment fee doesn't vary due to number of days that are scheduled.

I think the main problem here is the terms being used "weekly fee" vs "flat enrollment fee"

[33 Daiseys]

Holy cow all this over tea, my goodness, who knew? Who cares..LOL

Don't you know wars were started over tea, HONEY:)

[dodge__driver11]

LOL, the tea party..Honey @ 33 LOL

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I missed first post but my thought based on what I think the question is.

If parent charged for 5 days each week, even if they only use some, then it their spot each day and not only should they be able switch days but also, they should be able come every day if they want. We have lot of rotating shift worker here so can be one week Mon-Wed and next week Thu-Fri. Lot provider charge for FT place since parent need to know every shift has available space.

If parent paying for 5 days, and needs 4 or 5 days occasionally or switch to different days, since paying for those days, I think they have right to do that. It's their child's place. No different than have FT client who has lot days off with Grandparent but parent still paying for non-attending day. Would never say to that person that Grandma was supposed to come on Tuesday but now visit cancelled, child cannot attend.

If it flat fee each week but parent contacted for set day care, then I agree that not always possible to switch last minute.

I more likely to turn away the casual care person than one paying each and every week and giving regular income.

[crayolamom]

Lol! That's what you call a sketch bag, small minds, don't waste your time ottawamommy

[dodge__driver11]

You bet, oh guess what I am gonna go grab a HONEY crueller and a tea after my day is done. And when are you going to realize that I don't care what you say?

You are in essence behind a screen, be the keyboard warrior you need to be, in the end it done matter, I am just having fun with this now.

I answered Crayolamom the best I could and never said a cross word, I said honey, which is something I say, believe what you want... :) It's all good.

Have a great weekend. I know I will, I am going to get some family photos done, my ds is growing so fast, I love to be able to be here to enjoy him.

[33 Daiseys]

You too, we are spending the weekend in Montreal. Can't wait. But then again that's why I work, to go on vacations big and small.
Dodge - I'll send you some HONEY to go with your tea and crueller, my uncle in N.C. has a hive.

[mickyc]

So sad to see how this thread has turned out. Come on ladies!!

Crayola I have asked multiple times for clarification but you keep ignoring my posts and focusing only on the ones who want to argue. Anyway I guess I am done here.

[dodge__driver11]

So sad to see how this thread has turned out. Come on ladies!!

Crayola I have asked multiple times for clarification but you keep ignoring my posts and focusing only on the ones who want to argue. Anyway I guess I am done here.

I agree only having fun though, I would love to know if she has a flat enrollment fee, or a weekly fee? Oh well, my life will go on:) Have a great weekend eh?

[33 Daiseys]

she's just mad because she though that we would side with her, and when it was pointed out that it was something that most would not do, she got upset and started attacking.
I just ...... not not going to feed them.

[ottawamommy]

You're pretty twisted to come on here and say she's mad when you two immature trolls started attacking her. Grow up and stop acting like a victim. People did side with her (myself included) it's a great idea to make extra money, this is a business not a charity. 33 Daiseys you were never part of the conversation while the drama started so cut the shit about not feeding into it when you happily started to shoot your mouth off. Grow up

[5 Little Monkeys]

All this talk about being a business but how would you HONESTLY feel if roles were reversed? How would you like to pay for a service but than not be allowed the service? On top of that, someone else gets to use the service and you're not reimbursed?

I really don't believe that most people would be okay with this.....

I agree with mickyc though, some clarification would be nice. Is it a weekly fee or a flat enrolment? If it is a weekly fee maybe it would be a good time to change the contract to flat enrolment fee to avoid confusion with future families and this would hopefully curb parents asking to switch days....which is what your original issue was, right?

[ottawamommy]

33 Daiseys you make no sense just talk non stop its not okay for people to defend themselves but it's okay for you to make snear comments. As for three little monkeys get over it. Everyone runs there own business if you don't like it MOVE ALONG

[5 Little Monkeys]

Ottawamommy, this forum is for advice, opinions, help, support and guidance. She had a concern in her op and I just gave her a suggestion as to how too possibly avoid the same issue in the future.

Calm down.

[crayolamom]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Lol
I'm heading out for dinner at the CN Tower and shopping tomorrow using my "double dipping dollars" I recommend this business plan for everyone!

No dirty carb filled honey crullers here only the finest filet mignon.

I have a great weekend ladies MWAHHH ;)

[crayolamom]

[QUOTE=33 Daiseys;79858]Really where did I attach her. I made a joke with DODGE about honey being in tea. Grow up yourself? Here's what you do HONEY ( oh my i love that), go back and re read the posts all of them. Them use your common sense, and see who is picking fights with whom.
Even the comment about her taking down her post because of the bulldogs, to which she is calling every one who disagrees with her a bitch. How is that not attacking us?
She is nasty, cruel and loves to attack everyone. But it seems like that's what you like to do also.
Point being I FEEL that double dipping is wrong. Until she clarifies about the situation then that is what we are left with.[/QUOT

I only called you a bitch, remember the head pack of the pit bull dogs aka you ;) Buhbye honey (your right I love that too ;)

[5 Little Monkeys]

Crayola mom, why won't you answer the questions?

Is it flat or weekly fee? How would you feel as a parent in this situation? And are you and ottawamommy the same person?? Lol

Enjoy your weekend..,it sounds fun !

[dodge__driver11]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Lol
I'm heading out for dinner at the CN Tower and shopping tomorrow using my "double dipping dollars" I recommend this business plan for everyone!

No dirty carb filled honey crullers here only the finest filet mignon.

I have a great weekend ladies MWAHHH ;)

I will have a great weekend, I will be watching netflix, enjoying my family and going to the Keg, as I filled my last space, and Its my cheat day, so I WILL ENJOY my "dirty Crueller" Keep smiling!

[33 Daiseys]

I don't charge for my sick days or when on holidays. I also don't get paid twice for one spot. I'm not on a power trip (not sure why it would be considered that anyways??), it's just how I run my business based on what I feel is fair and right.

As for saving money....it makes sense to cut back where you can (no child needs 3rd helpings at this age, that's how obesity starts IMO) but it doesn't make sense to take advantage of parents. I know you don't think you are but IMO (and obviously others) you most certainly are.

Also, IME, parents who are pt often need to change their schedule. If they pay for a ft spot than this should be allowed as it should be no issue, it's THEIR spot. 2 weeks notice is far too much IMO. If they're only paying for pt than no, changes can only happen if you can make it work.

As a side note, are you and the OP the same person? Just wondering...

Also, you said it yourself....this family needs pt but wants to be able to switch days so yes they DO need ft and because of that, they PAY ft!! But yet can't switch days unless 2 weeks notice is given. Like others, I'm shocked parents agree to this as it's ridiculous!

notice how she responded with ottawamommy, instead of crayola? Curious no?

[babydom]

If parents came on here to read....which I'm sure some do. I think they be appalled at what they are reading from caregivers who are suppose to be watching children, instead they are on here acting like its high school. Honestly crayola....you posted asking for advice/help as this form is for. You can't get mad for other posters giving their opinion on your stituation...that's what a form is. And everyone needs to stop attacking crayola and ottawamommy. Like I've said before everyone runs their business their way if it works for them then so be. I don't believe in the so called "double dipping" but if she wants to run it that way then she has a right to as its her business. Just like I run my business with running errands during the day with the kids. She doesn't believe in it but it's ok it's my business. Moral of my story is that I am actually sadden but this post. Yes most don't believe in the OP way of running things but we don't need to attack. We are adults raising children for the future...let's set an example. Beside life is way to short ladies. I do apologies to the OP if I came across as attacking you when I said how I felt. And I feel bad that you came on here for help and advice and ended up getting this. I hope you can figured out things are your end and that annoying parent stops switching days. Have a good wkend everyone.

[dodge__driver11]

If parents came on here to read....which I'm sure some do. I think they be appalled at what they are reading from caregivers who are suppose to be watching children, instead they are on here acting like its high school. Honestly crayola....you posted asking for advice/help as this form is for. You can't get mad for other posters giving their opinion on your stituation...that's what a form is. And everyone needs to stop attacking crayola and ottawamommy. Like I've said before everyone runs their business their way if it works for them then so be. I don't believe in the so called "double dipping" but if she wants to run it that way then she has a right to as its her business. Just like I run my business with running errands during the day with the kids. She doesn't believe in it but it's ok it's my business. Moral of my story is that I am actually sadden but this post. Yes most don't believe in the OP way of running things but we don't need to attack. We are adults raising children for the future...let's set an example. Beside life is way to short ladies. I do apologies to the OP if I came across as attacking you when I said how I felt. And I feel bad that you came on here for help and advice and ended up getting this. I hope you can figured out things are your end and that annoying parent stops switching days. Have a good wkend everyone.

Honestly..I started making dumb jokes because I felt attacked for using a word I always say..... It's just who I am, its how deal with silyness

[admin]

Hello!
A little note to remind everyone to stay respectful and polite. To each his/her own opinion. You don't have to agree with everyone. There is no need to shout or be mad about it.
Regards :)