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View Full Version : Monthly grocery budge for daycare only



Cheeky
10-20-2015, 09:12 PM
Hello,

How much does everyone spend on groceries for the daycare only with 5 kids?
Let's say in Ontario since they change province to province.

Thanks!

torontokids
10-20-2015, 09:16 PM
$100-150 a week. So $400-600 per month. I would say more accurately on average $400-500 per month though.

I don't buy a lot of processed foods though and everything is made from scratch.

babydom
10-20-2015, 09:40 PM
Same 100/150$ a wk

mickyc
10-21-2015, 09:09 AM
Last year my total groceries for my home was almost $10,000. I claim half for daycare so used $5,000 so works out to be around $400 a month for daycare groceries

MsBell
10-21-2015, 09:16 AM
me too between $400-$500 a month

Busy ECE mommy
10-21-2015, 12:08 PM
About $350 a month

kindertime
10-21-2015, 01:07 PM
Over the last 10 years, I have kept track of the daily cost per child for all supplies. That is food and arts, cleaning, toys, books, etc. (All of these things go on the same line on your tax form, so I see no need in separating them out.) For the total supplies, each year, the average has been about $4/day/child.

crayolamom
10-21-2015, 02:20 PM
Last year my total groceries for my home was almost $10,000. I claim half for daycare so used $5,000 so works out to be around $400 a month for daycare groceries

I wasn't aware that we are legally allowed to do this considering daycare kids don't have dinner and many don't get breakfast so how would this be equal to a family grocery bill not to mention the kids don't get food on the weekends?

MsBell
10-21-2015, 05:03 PM
I wasn't aware that we are legally allowed to do this considering daycare kids don't have dinner and many don't get breakfast so how would this be equal to a family grocery bill not to mention the kids don't get food on the weekends?

My accountant does it that way too, 50% of my entire grocery bill. Also, my accountant claims my cable bill, Daycare kids don't watch tv in my house. That is why I don't mind paying to have my taxes done.

Lee-Bee
10-21-2015, 05:15 PM
My accountant does it that way too, 50% of my entire grocery bill. Also, my accountant claims my cable bill, Daycare kids don't watch tv in my house. That is why I don't mind paying to have my taxes done.

I took the child care tax course through the CCPRN and I believe of the 3 ways presented for claiming food was to use the portion of your house dedicated to daycare percentage. So here it was 33% of the house is solely for daycare therefore 33% of all house expenses and 33% of food costs were claimable. There fore if you are using 50% of your house for daycare then 50% of food costs could be claimable.

But, as usual don't take my word on that, our accountant took care of it for us!

5 Little Monkeys
10-21-2015, 08:19 PM
To my knowledge, there are 2 ways to do your expenses. The formula (days open/total days in week x hours open/total hours in day x rooms used for dc/total rooms in house) OR if you have half of your space dedicated to daycare care use only. I have exactly half my house for daycare only (basement) so I am allowed to claim most expenses at 50%.

The first few years I did my groceries separate though and claimed 100%. It wasn't totally accurate however as I would usually buy the meat on my personal bill and I didn't claim a lot of meals since they were from our previous night's supper and I didn't know how to figure that out lol. I now buy my groceries all together and claim 50%. It's still not a true number since they don't eat steak and lobster like we do haha. (Altho, they eat a ton more fruit and veggies than we do so maybe it evens itself out over time?) However, it does work out to being more to claim which is what my accountant suggested to do. It's legal even though it's not completely accurate. It's no different than claiming my other bills 50% even though they aren't watching my tv or using my lights half the time either.

crayolamom
10-22-2015, 10:13 AM
I just called revenue Canada about this and asked and they confirmed with me that it would be considered tax fraud?

5 Little Monkeys
10-22-2015, 11:01 AM
I just called revenue Canada about this and asked and they confirmed with me that it would be considered tax fraud?

Interesting. So what did they say about the other bills that we claim 50% of? I would think it's no different?

Lee-Bee
10-22-2015, 11:02 AM
I just called revenue Canada about this and asked and they confirmed with me that it would be considered tax fraud?

What did they offer as an alternative?

babydom
10-22-2015, 01:03 PM
I never heard of claiming 50% of your groceries bills. Geese I've been doing it the long painful way for years. Hahaha. After every gorcery shop I underline or circle all the daycare foods then at the end of every month I take each receipt and add up all the circled items to have a monthly total....at the end of the year I add up those monthly totals and that's what I claim for yearly groceries. Although I'm lazy every month and usually end up going through all the receipts at the end of the year ;);)

5 Little Monkeys
10-22-2015, 01:12 PM
I never heard of claiming 50% of your groceries bills. Geese I've been doing it the long painful way for years. Hahaha. After every gorcery shop I underline or circle all the daycare foods then at the end of every month I take each receipt and add up all the circled items to have a monthly total....at the end of the year I add up those monthly totals and that's what I claim for yearly groceries. Although I'm lazy every month and usually end up going through all the receipts at the end of the year ;);)

You can only claim 50% if you have half your house dedicated to dc space ONLY though. If you claim all your household bills as a percentage based on the formula than that is the percentage you would claim for groceries too. Or you could buy daycare groceries separately and claim 100% of it. That's what I used to do....would buy one box of crackers for dc on one bill and one for us on another bill. Now I just buy together and claim half (because half my house is dc ONLY)

Artsand crafts
10-22-2015, 01:26 PM
From the total weekly food cost only 5 out of 7 days are taken into consideration for daycare. Only a portion of the food consumed during those 5 days kids are here are considered for daycare since they are not having dinner or breakfast here. Calculations are detailed in case a CRA audit. Last year it was from 36% to 45% of the total food cost for daycare, depending of the number of children under my care. I always file myself. For mortgage, services, etc I use number of rooms used divided by total number of rooms (Sq footage can also be used). Daycare areas are dedicated here. If they were shared for my personal use only a % based on the hours used for daycare should be considered.

babydom
10-22-2015, 01:32 PM
I use my whole house for daycare not just half. I'm so glad I don't file taxes my self as all of this is way over my head. Lol

mickyc
10-22-2015, 01:32 PM
I was told that because half of my home is designated for daycare that I claim 50percent of my expenses including food. For myself I would say it's pretty accurate. We eat out wayyyyyyy to much on the weekends. Lol

crayolamom
10-22-2015, 02:08 PM
apparently when we shop it has to be on a separate bill because they said a family of 7 doesn't eat equivalent to 5 children who only get one weekly meal and snacks. If kids don't watch TV then we shouldn't be claiming cable as it has nothing do with your daycare. Hmmm?

MsBell
10-22-2015, 02:39 PM
apparently when we shop it has to be on a separate bill because they said a family of 7 doesn't eat equivalent to 5 children who only get one weekly meal and snacks. If kids don't watch TV then we shouldn't be claiming cable as it has nothing do with your daycare. Hmmm?



I am not a family of 7, I am a family of 3 , just me and two kids, my son buys most of his lunches throught school, and every other weekend my kids arent here, and most weeknights we are eating small meals on the go because my kids are in activities...SO my actual daycare groceries is MORE then my families meals, so in my situation 50% is less then I should claim....Im getting ripped off! lol

5 Little Monkeys
10-22-2015, 02:52 PM
I use my whole house for daycare not just half. I'm so glad I don't file taxes my self as all of this is way over my head. Lol

You would use the formula than :) I think it usually works out to 18-25% for most people if I remember correctly

mickyc
10-22-2015, 02:53 PM
In your case MsBell it would probably benefit you to buy your daycare groceries separately. We too are a family of 3.

Crayolamom- I also claim my half of my tv bill. I think it's all about claiming what is allowed. It sounds as though you think that's the wrong thing to do. Personally I prefer to pay less tax.

5 Little Monkeys
10-22-2015, 02:56 PM
apparently when we shop it has to be on a separate bill because they said a family of 7 doesn't eat equivalent to 5 children who only get one weekly meal and snacks. If kids don't watch TV then we shouldn't be claiming cable as it has nothing do with your daycare. Hmmm?

If this is for me, I never said they don't watch tv, just that I am allowed to claim half of the bill but they don't watch it half of the time. I also claim my internet, hydro and water at 50% but they don't use that stuff half the time either.....it's just the allowable, legal number I'm allowed to claim due to the way I have my business set up :) Businesses get perks, this just happens to be a few of them for hdc's

crayolamom
10-22-2015, 03:50 PM
Nope that wasn't for you since you didn't say they didn't watch TV so I don't know why you think it would be? It's for MsBell considering she's the one who said that she claims TV and no one watches TV.

I don't think the purpose of us doing taxes is to claim everything under the sun because technically that would be tax fraud. I would love to claim %50 percent of my grocery bill but when revenue Canada asks me if my DCK eat breakfast,lunch,dinn er with unlimited snack 7 days a week and I say no and they say well how is it that you are claiming 50/50?

The point wasn't how many people you have in your family (that was just a comment revenue Canada used) it was more of if your DCK kids aren't given meals that you would eat regularly at home then it's not 50/50.

I prefer to pay no taxes but that doesn't mean that it's legal.

5 Little Monkeys
10-22-2015, 05:42 PM
That's why I said if...I wasn't sure. I missed msbell's comment :)

Claiming things that are allowable and legal is exactly the reason for taxes!! I don't believe anyone is claiming tax fraud IMO. I would suggest talking to your accountant, they should be able to help you the best.

How is your business set up? Do you do the formula or do you have half your home dedicated to dc space ONLY? (Meaning that during non dc hours, you don't use the space for personal reasons) This will determine what percentage you get to use :)

MsBell
10-22-2015, 06:10 PM
Actually crayolamom, Most of the kids that I watch rarely eat a real breakfast before arriving to day care, and only have dinner at home before they go to bed, so the MAJORITY of their food is coming from me.

Regardless, I have a professional do my taxes every year, she has a lot of knowledge with home daycare rules and regulations, and that is one of the reasons I went her 10 years ago, and continue to use her services. I am very confident with her abilities to do my taxes correctly, saving me as much money as she can while also following the law. I can assure you, that I pay plenty of taxes even with whatever little bit I manage to save from claiming what I am allowed to claim (even if you think I should not be)

I will agree to disagree with you over this issue
I also just wanted to add, even if something is "notlegal", it does not make it criminal, in fact it may not even make it wrong.

playfelt
10-22-2015, 08:15 PM
There are specific formulas and ways to figure out what percentage of everything to claim. It is based on hours and days of care. For meals you have two options. You can either plan a sample menu and cost it out and then multiply by the number of kids being fed or you can use your entire grocery bill and figure out a typical week based on how many meals and snacks are served. The ratio I was told to use is one adult meal = 2 daycare meals and 2 snacks = one meal. So if you have a daycare child eating one meal and 2 snacks that = 2 meals a day x 5 kids for 5 days is 50 meals equivalents. Then do the same for your family. If they eat the meal at home or you pack a lunch you count it. If they buy out or don't eat a meal like no breakfast or eating brunch and dinner on the weekend then you count accordingly. That then gives you the ratio to use in claiming what percentage of your total grocery bill.

For things like internet, hydro, heat, etc. they are considered available to the daycare during daycare hours so they are put into the business use of home calculation which is spelled out in the using your home for daycare booklet that is on the revenue Canada website.

playfelt
10-22-2015, 08:23 PM
Groceries is a specific item that is included in the supplies section on the first page of the T2125. It does not go into the business use of home percentages at all. Supplies are everything from pens and paper, toilet paper, wipes, soap, glue, batteries, food, party supplies, etc. Business use of home percentage is for household bills like utilities, mortgage interest, property tax, etc. Not understanding why people seem to be using the same percentage for food as they are for heat and water. That makes no sense at all.

Lee-Bee
10-22-2015, 08:41 PM
Groceries is a specific item that is included in the supplies section on the first page of the T2125. It does not go into the business use of home percentages at all. Supplies are everything from pens and paper, toilet paper, wipes, soap, glue, batteries, food, party supplies, etc. Business use of home percentage is for household bills like utilities, mortgage interest, property tax, etc. Not understanding why people seem to be using the same percentage for food as they are for heat and water. That makes no sense at all.

I have it right here in writing as a 3rd option for calculating daycare food expenses as provided by the daycare accountant the Tax workshop offered at the CCPRN last year. Not saying it is officially legit but it was offered by an accountant in the CCPRN office as the way to do it.

Artsand crafts
10-22-2015, 08:53 PM
Groceries is a specific item that is included in the supplies section on the first page of the T2125. It does not go into the business use of home percentages at all. Supplies are everything from pens and paper, toilet paper, wipes, soap, glue, batteries, food, party supplies, etc. Business use of home percentage is for household bills like utilities, mortgage interest, property tax, etc. Not understanding why people seem to be using the same percentage for food as they are for heat and water. That makes no sense at all.

I can understand why accountants are using house usage % for grocery cost. When I started doing my dc taxes with turbo tax they were offering accountants services for a fee which I hired. They were telling me to do this (to use a % of house usage for grocery expenses), but that did not seem accurate to me at all and at the end I used the formula of % of food consumed by dck instead. I believe that advisers/accountants that aren't knowledgeable of this industry don't know how to create a formula (or were to get one since it is only specific for this kind of business) to calculate it, so they go the easy way. I don't know how they can explain that during an audit. Maybe if the auditor does not know too much about this industry they would not even notice the mistake and at the end it would not matter. Maybe a very detailed and smart auditor could notice it, even if they do not have the experience in hdc.

Artsand crafts
10-22-2015, 09:03 PM
or maybe the difference in dollar amount between using 50% or using the 36 to 45% based on the formula that I am using is not significant. Using 50% of grocery bill for me in 2015 would be about $7,700 and using the food consumed by dck formula is about $6,400. Maybe that does not make a big difference compared to what they collect everywhere else and the auditor can just give it a pass or just make a recommendation to improve the calculation in the best case scenario.

5 Little Monkeys
10-22-2015, 10:17 PM
I'm not really sure how it all works, just what my accountant has told me. She's a semi retired accountant after I believe she said 20-ish years, taught accounting and now just does it on the side for around I think 300 clients. She considers this part time lol. I've just taken her word for it that 50% was the correct way. Mickyc's accountant does it this way too so again, just assumed it was right. I'm only a family of 2 and I'm sure it probably does work out to be fairly close to 4 kids but who knows

I haven't been audited but have every single receipt for record. Like you said, maybe the little bit of difference isn't a big deal in the long run and that's why it's allowable?

mickyc
10-22-2015, 10:21 PM
It is next to impossible to figure out a completely accurate way to calculate food costs. In my case there is only 3 of us. My daughter and I both have cereal for breakfast. My husband gets a coffee at the coffee shop. My daughter and husband both take lunch (sandwich and snacks). I feed 4 kids lunch and snacks during the day as well as myself. Then it's just 3 of us for supper. As terrible as it is to admit to we likely spend $100 a week on takeout. In all honesty I don't think using 50% is that far off in my household.

I have every faith in my accountant that it is being done properly. He is the partner of a large well known firm, has been there for over 20 years, specializes in audits, keeps current with all law changes, flies all over Canada for work/education purposes and is familiar with my daycare as I had his son for a year.

Crayola kiddies
10-23-2015, 08:24 AM
I never heard of claiming 50% of your groceries bills. Geese I've been doing it the long painful way for years. Hahaha. After every gorcery shop I underline or circle all the daycare foods then at the end of every month I take each receipt and add up all the circled items to have a monthly total....at the end of the year I add up those monthly totals and that's what I claim for yearly groceries. Although I'm lazy every month and usually end up going through all the receipts at the end of the year ;);)

This is me exactly

5 Little Monkeys
10-23-2015, 09:03 AM
Babydom and crayola, when I used to do it similar to this, I just bought daycare groceries on a complete separate bill. Made it much easier than going through the receipts and dealing with taxed items and such. If I needed milk for both dc and us, I'd buy 2 jugs but on different bills. I also bought my supplies separately (toilet paper, Kleenex, cleaning supplies, etc)

babydom
10-23-2015, 12:59 PM
Oh I know. I always say I will do it that way. But when I have a full cart and a screaming child in my arms I'm like screw it and the whole cart goes up together. I can't stand there and split it and run two orders and pay twice. I don't get out often by myself. Hahaha. But yes that way would be so much easier 5LM!

mickyc
10-23-2015, 01:44 PM
What if you just put everything for daycare on the belt first, ask for a subtotal then put up all the rest. I do this often

5 Little Monkeys
10-23-2015, 02:16 PM
Oh I know. I always say I will do it that way. But when I have a full cart and a screaming child in my arms I'm like screw it and the whole cart goes up together. I can't stand there and split it and run two orders and pay twice. I don't get out often by myself. Hahaha. But yes that way would be so much easier 5LM!

Once you get into the routine, it becomes much easier :) I take my dck's shopping sometimes and never found it to be a problem. They know that screaming isn't allowed though lol. I would keep things in the cart separate or if dc or us only needed a few things, I would put a basket in the cart for those items. It made the checkout a lot easier. Paying twice really doesn't take that much longer. I would sometimes I have 3 bills lol (us, dc food and dc supplies)

babydom
10-23-2015, 02:40 PM
My daycare kids know screaming isn't allowed either. The screaming child is usually mine. Haha. I never thought to put a basket in the cart to separate the items if I'm not getting much. Good ideas!!!

5 Little Monkeys
10-23-2015, 04:04 PM
Haha...I hear that is common. Just last week a friend said she would term her own son if she could!! Lol

Lee-Bee
10-23-2015, 08:24 PM
Haha...I hear that is common. Just last week a friend said she would term her own son if she could!! Lol

I occasionally send my husband texts at work letting him know his child has been terminated effective immediately. He never shows up to pick her up though. So inconsiderate.

He does tend to know that those are the days I expect take out or lazy suppers though lol.

babydom
10-23-2015, 08:50 PM
That made me laugh lee-bee. Haha :) now I'm going to start texting my husband.....come get your child, now! Haha

5 Little Monkeys
10-25-2015, 12:53 AM
Love it! I'm going to tell her to start doing that too :)