4 years old and in diapers

[planet.caravan67]

Title says it all, got a new client this week which was heaven sent as I really needed to fill a spot asap however the child is 4, 60lbs and in diapers.
During the interview I didn't ask if child is potty trained because by 4 and 2months I thought it was safe to assume child is potty trained, going to school in september and all... Mom threw it out there last minute, I was going to take client anyway as I needed the spot filled and really liked the parents.

Child is very resistant to using toilet (potty isn't even an option, kid is too big) I offered to help out with that as I have 3 2yr olds which I am training right now, 2 have shown remarkable progress in just 1 week of introducing this ( I am very consistent, ever hr we sit on the potty, if someone goes in a corner to poop I catch em and put them on the potty) but child doesn't want to go, when I say its time he cries and complains for mommy. any tips on how to make it work? I think he has just been for so long going in diapers that he doesn't want or feel the need to change, I have rewards such as a small treat, stickers, etc and he is aware of it but that hasn't helped.

This child is pretty helpless all around, doesn't know how to UNZIP jacket, put on shoes, take off shoes, pull down pants and acts like a 2.5 yr old. I am not sure if its a mental delay (mom said there were no medical or developmental issues) or just been babied all his life. He doesn't even try to help himself and when he does if he can't get it first time quits.

How would you handle this? tips would be great

[mickyc]

Oh my. Well the only tip I can give is persistence. The child will eventually get it but it will take YOU a lot of hard work. Hopefully parents can be on board

[Lee-Bee]

At 4yrs old I would think you need to forgo the pull ups. They are old enough to have bladder control. They just haven't had a reason to control it yet. It's been 4yrs of soiling themselves...they can't be expected to train with a diaper on (a pull up is a diaper).

I don't know what to suggest. It's either on you to train this child (sounds like it could take a long while) or to just not take the initiative and leave it to the parents to do...but then you have to change a 4yrs olds diaper and I really don't know that that would be enjoyable. I think there is a point in age where the toddler cuteness factor fades and the whole diaper change is no longer do-able!! lol

Do you have a shower in your daycare bathroom? Maybe every time the child poops he has to undress himself and get in the shower to clean off? It seems mean i know but it might be enough incentive to have the child CHOSE to not poop himself at age 4. Of course, if there is a medical or developmental reason for the diaper this would just be cruel.

I would also INSIST the child comes in only jogging type pants. NO zippers, no buttons no buckles nothing to prevent a 4 yr old from pulling his own pants up and down. After the toileting is mastered then teach all those skills as well.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

When I toilet train daycare child first business day after 2nd birthday, I require parent be on board for consistency. My whole method base on it being less inconvenient for child to go to washroom, than it is to have accident. I require real underwear so it feel different and when accident happen, the child have to get fresh clothes, I help them clean up (if 2 years old) and the child has to put fresh clothes on.

First couple days about lot of praise and congratulation to build confidence and no negativity but they do have to get own clothes from bag, take off wet clothes, put in plastic bag etc.

Since this one is much older, he should be able clean himself.

Need parent on board though. If they going keep baby him then it not going work. Sit down with parent, go over method and make sure they will be doing same at home. If not, it going be long road.

[MommaL]

I agree with everything that's been said so far. My only suggestion would be to possibly wait a couple of weeks before continuing to train. This child just started this week right? He's probably trying to cope with all the changes happening right now (new provider and kids, new surroundings, new routine, being away from mom, etc.). So trying to potty train him at the same time might be a bit too much all at once.

[planet.caravan67]

At 4yrs old I would think you need to forgo the pull ups. They are old enough to have bladder control. They just haven't had a reason to control it yet. It's been 4yrs of soiling themselves...they can't be expected to train with a diaper on (a pull up is a diaper).

I don't know what to suggest. It's either on you to train this child (sounds like it could take a long while) or to just not take the initiative and leave it to the parents to do...but then you have to change a 4yrs olds diaper and I really don't know that that would be enjoyable. I think there is a point in age where the toddler cuteness factor fades and the whole diaper change is no longer do-able!! lol

Do you have a shower in your daycare bathroom? Maybe every time the child poops he has to undress himself and get in the shower to clean off? It seems mean i know but it might be enough incentive to have the child CHOSE to not poop himself at age 4. Of course, if there is a medical or developmental reason for the diaper this would just be cruel.

I would also INSIST the child comes in only jogging type pants. NO zippers, no buttons no buckles nothing to prevent a 4 yr old from pulling his own pants up and down. After the toileting is mastered then teach all those skills as well.
he doesn't even have pull ups which I mentioned to mom would be good idea (and make my life easier) just regular diapers as big as they get. the diapers are crying "help" as they are stretched beyond capacity

I have him going when my little ones are going, although he complains I make him try, sit there for 5 mins minimum, just like I have done for my own children and the others ones. I am going to suggest mom putting him in underwear at home and then she can tell me how he did at home, then I can decide if I want to try that. Other babies I have are in regular diapers and pull ups, one little boy today didn't pee in his diaper at all today, all in potty except for during nap so this bg guy should be able to do it as well. Mom and dad during the interview kept saying she hasn't pushed him because he hasn't been completely ready.

I do have a shower yes and that is a good idea however I have to discuss it with mom, I don't want to take any drastic measures (I wouldn't call this drastic but some people might) without her understanding and being on board. I am going to try to sit down with her and get a bit more info and find out exactly where she stands regarding this. She said she has been trying to put him on the toilet more often now since we started...

No there's nothing cute about it this situation. Its not like this is a small dainty 4 yr old either, he is a big boy, this child weighs more than double me, its hard to lift up his butt to put the diaper under as he is helpless and hard to pick him up to sit in the toilet because he doesn't want to sit by himself.

Great idea I will say that tomorrow! i am trying to get him to learn to put on his shoes, unzip his coat and pull his pants down all by himself. The pants he can't pull down have all been jogging pants so far!!!

Thank you for the advice!

[planet.caravan67]

When I toilet train daycare child first business day after 2nd birthday, I require parent be on board for consistency. My whole method base on it being less inconvenient for child to go to washroom, than it is to have accident. I require real underwear so it feel different and when accident happen, the child have to get fresh clothes, I help them clean up (if 2 years old) and the child has to put fresh clothes on.

First couple days about lot of praise and congratulation to build confidence and no negativity but they do have to get own clothes from bag, take off wet clothes, put in plastic bag etc.

Since this one is much older, he should be able clean himself.

Need parent on board though. If they going keep baby him then it not going work. Sit down with parent, go over method and make sure they will be doing same at home. If not, it going be long road.

Wow awesome does that usually work with the kids? how long on average does it take for you to train them?

Yes, key is parents on board I agree!

[5 Little Monkeys]

Potty training is something that is very individual to every child. Some are ready before 2 and some aren't ready until much older. Has he EVER shown interest in training yet? The rush will be on now as he can't go to school unless he's fully potty trained. Sounds like you have a good routine set with training so hopefully after awhile in your care, it will come to him! I agree, that maybe waiting a week or so with him would be good though. Let him adjust to you and feel comfortable before pushing the toilet too hard.

As for changing...I'd change him standing up! That's what I do when they get too big anyways.

Good luck!

[planet.caravan67]

She mentioned he has used the toilet successfully at home a few times. I don't know if he wanted to or she just got lucky those times. I will try standing up, I do my little ones standing up after the potty, but I have to apply cream as he gets a rash easily so needs to be lying down for that...

Thank you for your input!

[Busy ECE mommy]

I don't generally toilet train until the parents have spent a full week of consecutive days at home with the child to learn the process. This child may be developmentally delayed. If the child doesn't have the self help skills at age 4, then I wonder... They need to be able to pull own pants up&down and communicate that they need to go or have already gone. With heavier kids, I don't lift them on&off the toilet, I give them a stool and they do it by themselves. It doesn't sound like he's ready. I'd put the responsibility on the parents to do the training for now, and yes, he needs to use underwear, as pullups are diapers.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Wow awesome does that usually work with the kids? how long on average does it take for you to train them?

Yes, key is parents on board I agree!

Normally 2 week be totally trained but after just 3 days, it tend be only odd accident not daily. And it normally if I not paying attention and not see wiggling around quick enough. I ask parent start getting child practice getting dressed and undressed on their bottom half from about 18 month so at least pulling down pants is already familiar.

Yes, it works. Only ever had one little girl who did really good here but have accident at home. Later found out that Grandma who picked up child end day and looked after until parent get home was putting her in diaper because she not on board.

I had couple over years we do a little sooner but only if they really ready, able communicate clearly and advanced children. I have little girl who will be 2 in June who we going to start early. She have such horrible diaper rashes (red raw and bleed) and she always trying take off diaper anyway so might as well go with it.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

And I not lift children on off toilet either. I just about 5' tall and maybe 90 lbs soaking wet so that not possible. Get stool. To be honest, if 4 year old not able wiggle on and off toilet, training is going be impossible. Even my 3 year olds can get on and off toilet without stool.

[bright sparks]

Normally 2 week be totally trained but after just 3 days, it tend be only odd accident not daily. And it normally if I not paying attention and not see wiggling around quick enough. I ask parent start getting child practice getting dressed and undressed on their bottom half from about 18 month so at least pulling down pants is already familiar.

Yes, it works. Only ever had one little girl who did really good here but have accident at home. Later found out that Grandma who picked up child end day and looked after until parent get home was putting her in diaper because she not on board.

I had couple over years we do a little sooner but only if they really ready, able communicate clearly and advanced children. I have little girl who will be 2 in June who we going to start early. She have such horrible diaper rashes (red raw and bleed) and she always trying take off diaper anyway so might as well go with it.

Same here. No diapers and no pull ups and my time frame is pretty much the same as this. Difference is I do not train based on age, I train based on meeting certain milestones. Around the 2 year mark, but I appreciate that not all 2 year olds are at the same developmental stage so to expect that as a standard is not in my practice.

[planet.caravan67]

I don't generally toilet train until the parents have spent a full week of consecutive days at home with the child to learn the process. This child may be developmentally delayed. If the child doesn't have the self help skills at age 4, then I wonder... They need to be able to pull own pants up&down and communicate that they need to go or have already gone. With heavier kids, I don't lift them on&off the toilet, I give them a stool and they do it by themselves. It doesn't sound like he's ready. I'd put the responsibility on the parents to do the training for now, and yes, he needs to use underwear, as pullups are diapers.

I have begun to suspect child may be, because he is quite immature for his age, the games he likes to play, how he speaks seem a lot more similar to what a 3 yr old would do. But then again that can be related to how he is treated at home as mom was home till now with child and just got back to work - really makes me wonder why she hasn't trained him yet. I suspect he may be very much babied.
I have decided parents will have responsibility of doing it and once they are successful at home I will help out as well.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I have begun to suspect child may be, because he is quite immature for his age, the games he likes to play, how he speaks seem a lot more similar to what a 3 yr old would do. But then again that can be related to how he is treated at home as mom was home till now with child and just got back to work - really makes me wonder why she hasn't trained him yet. I suspect he may be very much babied.
I have decided parents will have responsibility of doing it and once they are successful at home I will help out as well.

This will make big difference. Normally my daycare children come to me at 12 month and stay until school time. I not had many come after 2 for sure. Even those babied at home are not babied her. My objective is to teach skill for independance. This maybe why 2nd birthday be magic time for training here? They know here that expectation are different and most child will reach for goal with positive encouragement. I not had many child developmentally delayed - I think only one. And that was short term place as Mom was having new baby and going on mat leave.

[bright sparks]

I had a very similar case last year. Boy was 4 but the size of a 6 year old and solid as a rock. Very heavy indeed. He did have developmental delays, but in addition to being babied and having everything done to him at home. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what the cause is, only that he needs to be toilet trained. This is just another case of having one way of doing things and trying to make a child conform doesn't always work and it is up to the caregivers in the child's life to make accommodations for that.

My first suggestion is to have a sit down with parents. They need to be 100% on board and promise to do things your way all the time. I'd even be inclined to have them sign an agreement and if they dont follow it then termination will be the consequence. I understand this is more work for you, but it is in the best interest of the child and the only way this will go in the right direction.

Secondly, you have to make it work. He is a big kid for sure, which I know first hand the limitations in training a late starter. Buy a potty chair, I can recommend one, that WILL accommodate a child of this size. Will he be 100% comfortable, probably not, but it will do the job. I think if the other kids are on a potty, he should to as it is what is modelled to him, not the toilet. Put him in underwear only so there are no pants to pull up and down or zippers etc. I know lots of people thing he should have this set of skills mastered first, but that is not the kind of situation you are working with. Once he has mastered peeing on the potty and gotten over his anxiety, then you can had some simply shorts with elastic waistband and work up to doing more. You have made the move to start potty training and you have to continue. Is he ready, physically for sure, mentally absolutely not from what you have said, but it does not mean he can not do it. Just gonna take a lot more work from you and parents.

Have zero expectation beyond sitting on the potty and reward him with lots of praise for that small step. This child obviously needs a ton of positive reinforcement and consistency all round. When he does pee, make a big deal and give him a sticker. I used to let the older boy I trained look through the stickers and choose one while he was on the potty and if he had a success eh could stick it on his sheet on the wall, if he did not he had to put it back in the bag. It's not enough to make them a promise, at this age they have to be able to get so close to it and realize that they will lose it should they not produce.

Stop asking him to go, and tell him to go. Not negotiable at this stage, there is gonna be a little bit of conditioning before independence comes. You need to be the one in charge of potty action. If he cries, ignore him but makes sure he stays on the potty, ideally until he calms down. I bring the potty into the play room so I can keep an eye on all the children and often the distraction of the other kids playing helps too. Like I said, zero expectations. First goal would be to simply have him sit on the potty without being upset. Once he stops being upset and anxious the pee will come.