This parent is driving me crazy! Am I wrong here??

[babydom]

Ok I need to vent this out. I have this one parent that's fighting me hard on nap time and I'm feeling like I'm in the wrong here but I know I'm not.

I have a 2.5yr old girl that plays hard and is very very busy. Like literally runs circles around the playroom non stop. Haha. So come nap time natualy she is tired. I was a nanny for 13 yrs and nap time was noon to 3 and I worked in daycares before and there nap times were 2-3hrs so when I opened my home daycare 6 yrs ago I just used that experience and put my nap time as noon to 3. It has worked perfect as I open at 7 so we do lunch at 1115/1130 then nap. I have never had a problem. Until this one family. She has been with me since she was 11mths old and a few mths ago she asked if I can shorten her nap as she wasn't going to bed at night till 9/10pm. I said ok thinking that maybe three hrs is long so since then we have been doing 1230-230. It works well but I do notice this little girl and my other four kids are still tired when I wake them.

Well tonight at 9pm she texts ok her nap can only be an hr or 1.5hrs cuz her going to bed this late and waking up tired is not working for us. I didn't responded right away as I'm quite angry. **As a side note: this family came to me before Christmas because they fell on hard times and I felt bad for them and didn't want to lose heir girl and wanted to help out so I gave them a discount, 75$ cheaper a wk. (I know a bad idea, urgh!) and with that they extended their hrs by an hr (still within my daycare hrs) but I'm working more hrs for less $$. And now she wants me to work even more hrs for still less money. After settling down I texted her back just now and calmly explained that no I'm sorry I will not shorten nap. I already did once and I don't have a separate rm to nap her so everyone has to be on the same schedule. I also told her that I tried a few times to wake her earlier and take her out but the other just woke and then I have a very grumpy and long afternoon with sleepy kids. I know for a fact it's not a tired issue. It's that this girl runs the house and there is no disapline. I said I can give some sleep training techniques that maybe will make bedtime easier. Anyways she texted back, we'll talk more tomorrow! Urgh!!

I'll be ready to talk all right. Lol. I Just hate how parents view me as their babysitter and I am suppose to accomandate their child. It doesn't work that way. This is my business and I run it my way. If u don't like it thats fine they should then find a daycare that works for them which in this case is a daycare that does not offer nap to 2yrs olds. I already shorten the nap once for her. I gave her a rate discount. I extended her hrs. I feel like shes pushing it.

Am I wrong here? Some of me feels bad like I'm feeling mad and mean and Im wrong. But a bigger part of me is feeling no this is my daycare and this is our nap time. Take it or leave it.

Guess I'm looking for validation. What are ur nap time hrs? Do u think 2hr naps for 2yr old is reasonable?

I also don't think an hr or 1.5hrs is enough time for my rest. I need to clean the kitchen the playroom. Get afternoon snack and activities ready and then eat lunch myself and rest myself

Thank for u listening!! :) :)

[5 Little Monkeys]

As with anything else, parents can definitely ask about my program. If we can come to a compromise, great! If not, they have to decide if they want to stay with me or not. I've had a couple who left shortly after realizing I wasn't going to give in to their demands. They didn't say they were leaving due to this but I could tell it was because they didn't get their own way. Nannies are better options for some parents IMO.

As far as what I think about napping, 3 hours does seem a bit excessive every day. Some days mine sleep that long but most often, it's 2-2.5 hours and not past 3pm. (There's been exceptions to this too but not on a regular basis) I have 2 almost 3 year olds and 2 almost 5 year olds. Some days nap has been 1.5-2 hours. It's adjusted when needed. Every child must lay down but I'm not super strict on the length. As they age, I just expect to adapt their nap times. Yes this is my daycare but part of being a provider to multiple ages means adapting my program when needed, IMO. What worked when they were 1 won't when they're 4.

Currently, none of my children nap at home (this has been for quite some time now actually) but they all nap here still. Only one parent has mentioned their child goes to bed late but they've never asked me to cut nap out. As she's almost 5, it will have to happen this summer anyways for school purposes

[goldielocks]

I think kids should nap for just about 2-2.5 hours. I remember in the daycare centre where I send my kids to they napped for only about 2 hours and I send them to bed by 7 every night.No problems...:):)

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I think 3 hour long time too but you changed it to 2 hour. For child this age, a nap is still needed. I think you been very accommodating to family but now it at point where line need be clear.

The reduced nap already negatively affect other children so why would one family who not paying full fees determine that everyone has even shorter nap time. They would not be ability to strut into centre and dictate length of nap for own child let alone all others too.

I would be firm and say that this is group care environment not personal bespoke service. That their requests to date have been accommodated even though detrimental to everyone else but a further reduction of nap time is not an option. You understand some children need more sleep than other and same children harder to get to bed that others but you cannot have their child negatively affect everyone else's sleep pattern even more than already happen.

One compromise for you maybe consider and it depend on own routine, is maybe making it earlier. So instead of 12.30 to 2.30 maybe aim for them be down at noon? But I not think this going provide parent magic answer they want. Sound like they need put in at least equal effort as you in own bedtime routine and in growing backbone as parent to stop being a buddy and to actually do some parenting. Unless you firm that enough is enough, I think each stage where parent need step up, is going be blamed on you for your routine in day. Time stop this now.

[crafty]

I had this nap problem before with one family. In my opinion they lacked a bit of structure and discipline when it was sleeping time at their house so their child was going to bed late. That child was 3 and still had not had a full night sleep. Anyways, what I ended up doing was telling the parents that I strongly believed that if she was having a 3 hour nap in the afternoon here was because she needed it. I also said however that I would wake her and give her some books that she could look at but she had to stay in bed. So at first I was asking the parents if it helped at home and at first they said yes but eventually NO it wasn't even helping and here when I would wake her most of the time she would fall right back asleep I did not bother with it. I told them that I woke her and fell back asleep so I would let her sleep at that point.

As for the schedule, your's is very similar to mine. The kids go down at 12h30 and get up at 3h00 so it's 2.5 hours here but a lot of the time everyone sleep more than 2.5hours and if some wake up before they have access to a little book shelf by their beds and they can use. I have had groups who would sleep 3 hours too. I don't really wake the kids up. I follow their lead...unless it goes way too late. Since this family I do let new parents know that the kids WILL go down for naps and that is not up for negotiation but I do let them have books if they are not sleepy or wake up earlier than the others.

I always always feel bad when I need to say NO and be firm with parents but at the end of the day I work for myself and the kids. Good for you for standing up for yourself. Whatever decision your make you need to make it for YOU.

[babydom]

Thank u everyone! I will remain at the two hr nap for everyone! This morning she dropped off her child and left. Didn't even say boo to me. Gotta love when u get attitude from the parents. Haha

Here's a follow up question..... My group is always young so always age 1 and 2 yr olds. Sometimes I'll have 3 yr olds and I do allow quiet time where if they don't nap they still have to lay down and rest and read book do puzzles etc. If they fall asleep I don't wake them till nap time is over. So I don't mind doing it with this girl if mom wants no nap. BUT what do u do with a child that mom doesn't want a nap and the child doesn't stay quiet during the time??? I've tried it with her and she just wakes the others but slapping the books around, signing loudly. Even in a different rm she's loud! Plus I think at 2 she should still be napping. So how do u keep a child quiet who doesn't nap? I can't keep them entertained and keep going shhhh all afternoon, I need my break too.

[mattsmom]

My daycare naptime is between 12 and 2, and it works great for everyone. I do have 1 yr olds that will sleep past that, but they are in a separate room upstairs, so I just let them sleep the extra hour if they need to and do an extra activity with the older ones.

Napping is one thing I do not budge on. Not only do the kids need a nap/rest time in the afternoon, but it is time that I use to clean up the kitchen, have my own lunch, sit down for a bit of a break and answer any phone calls/emails that need answering.

Two years old is too young to not nap, IMO. As you said, you do not have an extra room to put her and if she was awake, she would keep the other kids awake.

[Lee-Bee]

Personally I would not wake all the children. Make your mandatory sleep time from 12-2 but allow all children to sleep until 3pm unless they wake on their own.

I think it takes a lot of time and practice for children to learn to be quiet. At 2.5yrs I wouldn't expect most children to be capable of this.

Personally in this case, with a family that has already asked so many favors I wouldn't be caving. Be firm...tell them your old nap policy stands, they can walk or accept it. If they are getting more care for less they can deal with a child up until 9pm.

[Crayola kiddies]

If the child has out grown her nap she has out grown your daycare ....NEXT !!!!

[babydom]

If the child has out grown her nap she has out grown your daycare ....NEXT !!!!

Haha. That was my first thought! :)

[5 Little Monkeys]

If the child has out grown her nap she has out grown your daycare ....NEXT !!!!

I've seen you say this a few times and it always makes me curious. So if you have a child that is great in all other aspects and has a great family that follow rules but the child is 3/4 years old and outgrows nap, you terminate?

[babydom]

For me I only take children under 4. At 4 they go to school. So I require nap for ages 0-3. once I had a 3yr that didn't nap anymore but I had him since 11mths so I just didn't want to term. And also he was going to school soon. But it worked well. Because he did quiet time well and wasn't loud. But I think what if I get a 1 yr old and at 3 or almost 4 they didn't nap and they weren't quiet. What would u do? I think I would have to let them go because it doesn't fit my schedule and routine anymore and my other children needing a nap wouldn't be getting it. I'd probably offer they go to a preschool where theyre more flexible on nap and get them ready for school. in preschools here and 4 yr old kindergarten they still do a quiet time

[5 Little Monkeys]

I've only had 4 kids who outgrew naps. One (3years) had parents who ask that she had no quiet time and instead go on her own personal iPad, I said no (but agreed to 30 mins on her mat and than could do quiet activities if she was still awake) and they left soon after. Another had a mom who asked for no naps but she was 2 and always fell asleep on her own, it turned out to just be a phase she went through at bedtime, staying up late. The 3rd one (2years) stayed in his playpen quietly and the other 2 year old was a monster at nap, loud and disruptive and I had to put him in a different room. I never termed him but they did leave as they needed more days than I could offer at the time so it worked out well for me anyways lol

[mickyc]

I nap kids from 12:30-3. All kids must nap until they are 4. Once they are 4 I will let the child up after an hour provided I don't need to wake them. If they are still sleeping then I leave them until they wake. They then can come and watch cartoons quietly. All 4 year olds who start kindergarten in sept quit naps for July/August before school starts. Parents know nap time is for coloring/books/tv but only if their child is 4 and starting school.

In your situation the child needs to nap 2 hours. No exceptions. A lot of times bedtime issues have nothing to do with nap.

[BlueRose]

My official nap time is 12 to 3. sometimes they fall asleep sooner, sometimes they fall asleep later the 12. If they are all up before 3 then nap time is over for that day. I will ONLY wake a child if I have to do a school run or if there is an emergency. I also will not force a child to stay awake.
I go with the flow with the kids, but I will NOT allow a parent to tell me to wake a child or not to nap a child. If a child needs 4 hours of sleep and I can accommodate that child I will let them sleep, but I don't except the other child to be quiet after 3pm just because one child needs to sleep longer. If parents don't like that they can find care elsewhere. The child's needs come before the parents.

[babydom]

Well said bluerose. Now I want to go back to my noon to 3. Lol we sound similar. If someone sleeps after the 230 I let them but if they are awake they come down but have to stay up there for the two hrs. One or one and half hrs is just not long enough nap/quiet time.

So if all the kids are up at 130 or 2 then nap is done? Or does everyone stay on their cot from noon to three?

[MommaL]

I do things differently. If a parent of a 2, 3 or 4 year old requests a shorter nap (or no nap), I will accommodate that, at least initially. I know from experience with my own son that it can become a vicious cycle for some children. If they sleep too much during the day, don't fall asleep until too late at night and are up early the next morning, then of course they are going to need a nap by the afternoon. However, for some children, if they don't nap and go to bed at a reasonable time, they wake up happily in the morning and do just fine during the day. So when a parent asks for a shorter nap because the child isn't sleeping well at night, I tell them that I will try it for one week. If during that week, I see that the child can make it through the day without the nap and is doing really well, then that's great. The nap is gone! However, if the child is still going to bed late at night and/or is tired and grumpy during the day, then there must be another reason for the child not sleeping well at night. This all being said, I live in a province that has half-day kindergarten at age 5 (and no pre-K) and also requires school-aged children in our max numbers. It's common to have older children in my care who are not napping, so to add one more in the mix if a parent requests it isn't a big deal. It would likely be different if I only had 1-3 year olds in my care and I was accustomed to having everyone nap for 2-3 hours in the afternoon.

[Crayola kiddies]

I've seen you say this a few times and it always makes me curious. So if you have a child that is great in all other aspects and has a great family that follow rules but the child is 3/4 years old and outgrows nap, you terminate?
First I have had this situation ... Sort of ... Parents kept asking to shorten the nap but the kid was miserable when I woke her up and she would scream very shrilly and wake some of the others so what I did was put her down last and woke her first and told them she only slept 45 mins and miraculously bedtime was a snap .... My set up is different in such each child has their own room and I have fans stragicly placed .... The op is stating all the children sleep in the same room so waking her early or keeping her up is not an prion cause she is not quiet and the other children deserve their rest period ... The provider also doesn't get a break .... This child is only 2.5 and needs a nap we are not talking about a 3.5-4 yr old ... She's 2! The parent needs to parent ! So to answer your question ... If I was in this situation I would tell the parent that I was not able to shorten the nap any further and if the parent gave me attitude then I would suggest another daycare or perhaps a centre would suit her needs better

[bright sparks]

I have quiet time from 12-3. Not a naptime. I will never make it mandatory for a child to nap, because every child's needs are different and while one kid may not get enough rest with 1 or 2 hours, another child can quite happily manage at 12 months old with this amount of time, regardless of what I think. I have quiet time where everyone is expected to go for a lie down or a sleep. Should the child naturally not fall asleep, then that is their own body controlling their needs but they are still resting and should it be very difficult for them to stay settled, then they could have a book to read or other comfort item as long as they were quiet. I do have the luxury of napping the kids all separately though, so I sleep train my kids from the get go so should one wake noisily very early from nap, they can make a fuss and then self sooth themselves back to sleep and learn that screaming, shouting or misbehaving is not tolerated. If a child sleeps three hours, then it is obviously because their body needs it, and if they didn't need to get that amount of sleep, then they simply wouldn't. As for night time sleep routine, an overtired child can be more hassle at times than one who had a long daytime nap to settle at bedtime and I have heard all to frequently the parents who make these demands and complaints, tell me their kids are up to all kinds of things prior to bedtime so I think many times there are far more causes to poor night time sleeping routines that what goes on at daycare. Sleep training requires work on the caregivers part, parents need to parent....and often this is not happening so the child doesn't sleep because they don't have to.

[babydom]

I have quiet time from 12-3. Not a naptime. I will never make it mandatory for a child to nap, because every child's needs are different and while one kid may not get enough rest with 1 or 2 hours, another child can quite happily manage at 12 months old with this amount of time, regardless of what I think. I have quiet time where everyone is expected to go for a lie down or a sleep. Should the child naturally not fall asleep, then that is their own body controlling their needs but they are still resting and should it be very difficult for them to stay settled, then they could have a book to read or other comfort item as long as they were quiet. I do have the luxury of napping the kids all separately though, so I sleep train my kids from the get go so should one wake noisily very early from nap, they can make a fuss and then self sooth themselves back to sleep and learn that screaming, shouting or misbehaving is not tolerated. If a child sleeps three hours, then it is obviously because their body needs it, and if they didn't need to get that amount of sleep, then they simply wouldn't. As for night time sleep routine, an overtired child can be more hassle at times than one who had a long daytime nap to settle at bedtime and I have heard all to frequently the parents who make these demands and complaints, tell me their kids are up to all kinds of things prior to bedtime so I think many times there are far more causes to poor night time sleeping routines that what goes on at daycare. Sleep training requires work on the caregivers part, parents need to parent....and often this is not happening so the child doesn't sleep because they don't have to.

Are all kids required to stay on their bed for the full three hrs regardless if they sleep or not?

[5 Little Monkeys]

I nap all my kids in one room and actually prefer it. (I feel in an emergency, it's the safest) I've been very blessed to have had great nappers though so it's been a breeze. The odd time I have to nap them in a separate room but I always work to quickly get them into the nap room with the others.

Bright and mommaL, I agree with you ladies. I think naps are VERY important for children but There are definitely some that do outgrow it and no matter what we do, we can't force a child to nap or be quiet for 2-3 hours. Thankfully, I haven't run into too many of these kids in my hdc but in centres, it was more common....and much easier to accommodate

[bright sparks]

Are all kids required to stay on their bed for the full three hrs regardless if they sleep or not?

Not necessarily. If they are quiet then its not a question of requirement as they just lie quietly anyway. Sleep is not required, so if a child is restless and uncomfortable and has been lying quietly for a couple of hours and hasn't slept, then depending on the child, and in general the whole dynamic of my group, I might allow them to get up and play with playdoh quietly, do some colouring or watch a tv show. If all my kids were awake and I could hear them talking, moving around etc, and it had been a good couple of hours then for the most part we would just get on with our day. While I value my break, sometimes we can't get as much done as we would like because of long nappers, so sometimes having everyone awake at 2/2:30 means we can have more fun times in the afternoon before pickup.