Potty Training Headaches!

[LilDuck]

Happy Friday, everyone!
Sorry if this runs a little long, but I need a little advice from you, as I am quickly approaching my limit. I've only been running my home daycare for a year, so I think it is my lack of experience (and my desire to please, ugh!) that is clouding my judgement. Here's the situation: I have a 2 1/2 yr old DCG who up until a week ago was not potty trained and the parents had not initiated any start to the training. She was off last week on a family vacation and this Monday morning, her DCM announced to me that she was put into underpants all week and hasn't needed a diaper/pull-up except for nap and overnight. I was skeptical but decided to take the mom's word and let her stay here in underpants only (mistake #1). Well, the first day she peed herself (and my carpet and sofa) three times. The next day, she pooped twice and peed again. Well, by day 3 I had had enough and put her back into pull-ups. I also sent the mom a message explaining what happened and that I had put DCG back into pull-ups as she was not ready to be in underwear. Well, DCM didn't take the news well and got very defensive and said that it's normal that she would have "accidents" and that they didn't happen all week on vacation. I said that kids tend to behave differently at daycare than they do at home, and the fact that she was freely soiling herself (and not alerting anyone that she had messed) is clearly a sign that she's not potty trained. I explained that we will continue to take her to the potty every hour or so (I have a potty trip schedule: 9:00am, 10:15am, 11:45am, etc), but she will have to keep the pull-up on here because I can't stop and steam clean my carpets and furniture 2-3 times a day. I reiterated this at pick up and mom was clearly not pleased - she mumbled that she didn't want pull-ups as this was going to cause a setback. :blink:
I even took the time yesterday evening to research a few potty training techniques that may work (while still wearing the pull-up to protect my house), asked her to let me know what she thought and DCM didn't even reply to my message. This morning at drop off, DCG shows up in underwear again. I tell her that I am going to have to put a pull-up on her and DCM sighs, kisses DCG and leaves without saying another word to me.
I am at the end of my patience with this... my husband thinks I should just tell her point blank that if DCG doesn't arrive in pull-ups, she can't stay. And if they don't like that, then they will have to find other care. (I should also mention that this DCM also ignores my rule that her child can't bring her own toys to daycare and often picks up late, despite several warnings).:mad: I don't know if that's too harsh. Part of me would really like to do that, but the other part of me also does not want to lose a full-time 2 1/2 yr old, as they are hard enough to find in Ontario, and the summer's been pretty lean anyways. I have put up advertisements for her spot, but again, being summer, I'm not getting a lot of interest yet.
What should I do? What would you do? Mu husband says the aggravation is not worth the income from her because she clearly doesn't respect what I do.

[5 Little Monkeys]

First, decide if you want to keep this family. Parents not liking our approach to things is normal and IMO, to be expected. Disregarding our opinion, advice and not being able to communicate and reach a compromise is not acceptable though. If you want to go forward with her, plan a time to discuss potty training (I like to just give a heads up that during pickup one day, we need time to talk) Than be ready with a plan and ask her what her thoughts are. In the end, at your home it's your rules but hopefully you 2 can come up with an approach that both parties are comfortable with. For myself, I treat potty training case by case and work WITH the parent and child as each child is different. I explain to them what the best approaches have been IME and most times they go along with that (a lot of parents want their child trained FAST so are willing to do whatever I suggest lol) but sometimes a family has had previous luck with an older sibling doing a different approach and if I'm fine with it, I'll give it a shot.

The approach that I've found works best is....

- child has to be showing signs of wanting to be trained (dry diaper after nap, holding it, knowing when they need to pee/poop, saying potty, taking off clothes etc)

- child wears underwear underneath the pull up (keeps my home clean but they still feel the mess when they go)

- at first, there's a schedule. However that is only for 1-3 days max as than its YOU that's trained not the child. After that, I encourage them to use the potty at normal potty times (snack, lunch, before going outside etc) but the in between washroom visits are left up to them

- help the child with pulling up and down of clothes, getting off and on toilet but don't do it for them!!

- once I feel that they're ready for just underwear, (some have been as fast as one day!! Some have been a few weeks) I plan to stay inside for a day or two. I expect accidents and prepare myself for that lol. Make sure the parent leaves quite a bit of extra clothing at your place. Don't allow the child on your "good" furniture and encourage lots of washroom visits and make a big deal out of every success (it's a huge milestone!!) and try not to shame them for the accidents (we all make mistakes when learning a new thing and if they're like most of us, they won't want to continue with it if they get scolding for their mistake)

- to be considered fully trained, they must be able to do all the steps themselves. I still wipe bums for poops but that doesn't last very long as they learn quickly what to do

Doing it this way has been the easiest and fastest method I've tried over the years. Good luck!!

[mickyc]

Do you have your potty training policy in your contract? If not you definitely need to add it in there.

I do not allow underwear until I agree to it. Once a child turns 2 I start introducing the potty to them a few times a day. I use the big toilet as I don't ever use a portable potty. Once the child seems to be showing interest we switch to pull-ups. Once we have dry pull-ups for a week or two I will transition to underwear. I also reserve the right to go back to pull-ups if there are too many accidents. I encourage parents to just use underwear at home. I have put pull-ups on over underwear too depending on the child. My parents all know this is my method as its in my contract so they know what to expect.

It sounds like you need to get firm with this mom and fast. If she doesn't respect your rules it is because you are letting her.

[LilDuck]

[QUOTE=mickyc;84423]Do you have your potty training policy in your contract? If not you definitely need to add it in there.

Unfortunately, I do not have a specific one. I address potty training in the contract, but now I see I wasn't nearly specific enough. I am writing one up and updating my contract as we speak. I will then send this updated policy to DCM in question, ask her to review it and let me know if she has any questions.
Thanks for your input!

[LilDuck]

Do you mind if I copy some of your steps above to create my specific potty-training policy for my contract? I briefly cover it in my current contract, but not in nearly enough detail. I will write one up and send it to all my daycare parents as a contract update for them to read and confirm.
Thanks for your tips!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I don't mind at all (if you meant my steps?)

I also don't have a detailed policy in my contract as its so individual IMO. I do have a more detailed page that i let parents read but it's not a "make or break" policy in my contract

[33 Daiseys]

Happy Friday, everyone!
Sorry if this runs a little long, but I need a little advice from you, as I am quickly approaching my limit. I've only been running my home daycare for a year, so I think it is my lack of experience (and my desire to please, ugh!) that is clouding my judgement. Here's the situation: I have a 2 1/2 yr old DCG who up until a week ago was not potty trained and the parents had not initiated any start to the training. She was off last week on a family vacation and this Monday morning, her DCM announced to me that she was put into underpants all week and hasn't needed a diaper/pull-up except for nap and overnight. I was skeptical but decided to take the mom's word and let her stay here in underpants only (mistake #1). Well, the first day she peed herself (and my carpet and sofa) three times. The next day, she pooped twice and peed again. Well, by day 3 I had had enough and put her back into pull-ups. I also sent the mom a message explaining what happened and that I had put DCG back into pull-ups as she was not ready to be in underwear. Well, DCM didn't take the news well and got very defensive and said that it's normal that she would have "accidents" and that they didn't happen all week on vacation. I said that kids tend to behave differently at daycare than they do at home, and the fact that she was freely soiling herself (and not alerting anyone that she had messed) is clearly a sign that she's not potty trained. I explained that we will continue to take her to the potty every hour or so (I have a potty trip schedule: 9:00am, 10:15am, 11:45am, etc), but she will have to keep the pull-up on here because I can't stop and steam clean my carpets and furniture 2-3 times a day. I reiterated this at pick up and mom was clearly not pleased - she mumbled that she didn't want pull-ups as this was going to cause a setback. :blink:
I even took the time yesterday evening to research a few potty training techniques that may work (while still wearing the pull-up to protect my house), asked her to let me know what she thought and DCM didn't even reply to my message. This morning at drop off, DCG shows up in underwear again. I tell her that I am going to have to put a pull-up on her and DCM sighs, kisses DCG and leaves without saying another word to me.
I am at the end of my patience with this... my husband thinks I should just tell her point blank that if DCG doesn't arrive in pull-ups, she can't stay. And if they don't like that, then they will have to find other care. (I should also mention that this DCM also ignores my rule that her child can't bring her own toys to daycare and often picks up late, despite several warnings).:mad: I don't know if that's too harsh. Part of me would really like to do that, but the other part of me also does not want to lose a full-time 2 1/2 yr old, as they are hard enough to find in Ontario, and the summer's been pretty lean anyways. I have put up advertisements for her spot, but again, being summer, I'm not getting a lot of interest yet.
What should I do? What would you do? Mu husband says the aggravation is not worth the income from her because she clearly doesn't respect what I do.

I would put the pull up on OVER her panties. Everytime she is dirty or wet take the pull up and panities, up them in a plastic bag and send them home for mom to deal with. You are making this way to easy for her. Once she has to be the one to clean up poop, i can bet that she will okay pull ups:)

[kindredspirit]

I agree with pull ups over undies-both for the dcg to feel wet, and for the Mom to understand. IME, pull ups DO set back potty training. I think the poor girl will get mixed messages, that it's ok to pee her pants at daycare, she has a diaper. My oldest potty trained at 19mo, her provider (Montessori school) requested 5 pairs of underwear and a long shirt (no pants, to make it faster), and just watched her closely (she was going at predictable times and asking to go, but had accidents if really involved in play). For in my home and travelling, I used cloth trainers (protect furniture, but feel wet). For children in my daycare, they have all been different. I consider them trained when they consistently ask to go in time.

[bright sparks]

I have to be honest but I don't see this issue stemming from any kind of preference for potty training or even the steps each individual takes towards readiness etc. The problem you are having is that you are dealing with a family who are not willing to collaborate with you. If they were, then they wouldn't have taken it upon themselves to start toilet training prior to a discussion with you. Yes I have my own set of criteria before I will start training, but I discuss this with the parents. Likewise, if a parent wants to start toilet training, they should discuss it with you first. It's not about a parent asking permission etc, but respecting the fact that you will be doing the bulk of the training given the amount of hours spent with the child, and you will also be training in a group setting which is very different than one on one.

I think like all of us have been, you are a new provider and didn't foresee this happening. A parent pulling the rug from under you! The time for discussing readiness is over IMO, it has been started and you have to move forward with it.

Stop asking the parent to bring in a pull up. Demand it...her child, YES, but this is your daycare and I would swiftly remind her that had she bothered to discuss this ahead of time then you could have agreed on the terms of training prior to these issues arising. If you want a pull up, make it mandatory and if she is displeased, quite frankly it is her own fault. If she refuses, then let her know she can not attend daycare freely soiling everywhere and she either complies or immediately terminate. I doesn't really matter what the child does at home if she is peeing and pooing all over daycare and not verbalizing her needs. Again, this problem is nothing to do with the child's abilities, age or method of training. This is a disrespectful parent who is not on an equal footing with you when it comes to childcare. Personally, I would give notice if she doesn't immediately comply with your potty training demands. Otherwise, you are in for a lot more stress in addition to what appears to be a child who isn't ready having a very rough toilet training experience.

You have to make a decision. Grin and bare it and try to make it work by taking control of the situation, or terminate. Good Luck!

[Van]

I tell the parents that the child needs to wear the pull ups over the undies at daycare for HYGIENE reasons as they are busy playing at daycare and can forget to tell you when they need to pee.
You have the right to save your couch and carpets !!!

[mickyc]

Feel free to use my steps in your policy if you wish.

In my house it is my rules. I am not about to let things be ruined because of a parent pushing for potty training a child who is not ready. Not all kids fit in my potty training rule box but bottom line is it is my choice when I want to go ahead and take the plunge into only underwear. It's me cleaning up the messes after all.

[LilDuck]

Thank you all so much for your replies and ideas. Here is an update on the situation: After great advice here, I created a detailed Potty Training document outlining the steps that I will use once potty training has begun. I clearly outlined that in order for the child to wear underpants only, I have to have seen that they are able to let me know when they need to go potty, are able to pull up/down their clothes themselves and are able to be accident free for 5 consecutive days. The DCG in question meets none of the criteria so I gave the DCM the option of sending the child with pull-ups, those heavy waffle cotton training pants or a pull-up over her underpants. I have initiated conversation three times now (once in person, once by email and once by text message) and all three have gone unanswered. DCG was dropped off again this morning in underpants only (the DCM now practically shoves her through the door and runs off before I have a chance to speak with her or check DCG for pull-ups). I really don't understand why this has become such an issue. I don't know what else to do. I have delivered a clear Potty Training document to all parents, I have initiated discussion several times and I have explained my position. I was thinking of sending an "official" letter to DCM today with the following points: "I have addressed this several times now... DCG cannot wear underpants only at the daycare... she is not ready and starting tomorrow will have to be dropped off wearing either pull-ups or training pants or she will not be allowed to stay... I have attempted to initiate discussion and it has gone ignored... if my daycare rules continue to be disregarded, I will not be able to continue care of DCG.
I'm just really having a hard time understanding why they are so unwilling to even entertain my rules or open a discussion with me - I guess it's because I've only been running my daycare for a year and haven't encountered this before. This DCG has been with me for the whole time, but I guess there have been signs... disregarding other minor rules, showing up late for pick up on several occasions and referring to me as the "babysitter". Ugh.
Thank you all for your support. I thought I was crazy until I found this forum. It's my daycare lifeline. :)

[LilDuck]

I would put the pull up on OVER her panties. Everytime she is dirty or wet take the pull up and panities, up them in a plastic bag and send them home for mom to deal with. You are making this way to easy for her. Once she has to be the one to clean up poop, i can bet that she will okay pull ups:)

I have been doing that for several days now... I send home 2 - 3 pairs of soiled underpants (poop and pee) per day, and mention at every pick up that she needs to wear pull ups and she is clearly not ready for underpants only. DCM only mutters and/or ignores what I am saying and runs off with DCG. She is clearly unfazed by the soiled clothes and underpants because the next day, she is dropped off again in underpants only. I feel like I'm the crazy one here. I can't believe that this is where they are making their stand and this is what is going to lead to me getting rid of the family.

[Lee-Bee]

I don't think your proposed letter will work. She is shoving her in the door and running so you can't check and refuse care because mom will be gone before you check.

I would write up a letter of probation. If the child arrives in panties only again care will be terminated as of the next day. I would send this letter home, email it and text the content. Make it CLEAR that this begins tomorrow.

They clearly think they can manipulate you until you cave...make it clear they are on their last chance and the consequence of dropping in panties and running is they have nowhere to go the next day.

This is no longer about potty training this is them trying to win the situation and you do NOT benefit if they win this one as they will feel they control you.

:-(

[mickyc]

Some parents just don't get it. They think that it's their kid so their rules. This will be a rude awakening for them. They just don't grasp the idea of what it is like to care for multiple children and don't realize the distractions at daycare. They also have a totally different definition of toilet trained than you do. I find some parents doing realize it is a process. It is not something that will happen overnight. Some kids get it quicker than others and some don't. This mom is looking at her child's failure to use the toilet at your house as a reflection of you not her child. She probably dotes on her enough at home that sure there are likely minimal accidents. We all know it's different at daycare.

I had 1 boy who was in training pants for ever! He showed little improvement and I finally decided to just switch over and it worked well. For him it worked great but it was my choice to go that route. Mom worked with me and he is fully trained now. On the other hand I have a 3 year old (almost 4) fully trained girl who cannot wipe her bum because mom does it. Ummmm that is part of the training is it not? I can understand sometimes but not all the time. I don't have time for that!! I know that mom is annoyed that I encourage her to do it by herself.

Stick to your guns. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Crayola kiddies]

Do you not have a supply of diapers or pull-ups at your house ? I think it's at a point now that if it were me I would gather up what ever belongings you have for this child and have them at the door and I would compose a letter Along the lines of
Dear xxxxx due to our recent potty training issues despite many attempts to discuss this with you and a general air of disrespect towards myself and my day home that after today I will no longer be providing care for xxxxx.
I wish you well in the future,
Regards, xxxx
Put the letter in the bag (keep a copy for yourself) and when she walks in say "I need to inform you that as of today i will no longer be providing care for xxxx .... I have been trying to discuss potty training with you however you keep sending xxx in underwear and she is not ready here at daycare with all the distractions to be in just underwear.... I feel I have no other choice ... There is a letter on your bag for your records" ....and say goodbye ...... Don't let her engage in a dispute with you tell her the decision has been made.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

CAn you lock door before they arrive tomorrow so she is not able to shove child in and leave before you have checked?

[Van]

Hi LilDuck , we are interested to know what happened.......

[littlefish]

I personally don't like potty training, I done it many times and it always comes bad with the parents, they get very defensive if we suggest anything. Hopefully you can find a happy medium Good Luck!
I'm in a situation where mom is expecting her second child in Jan and dad brought me her daughter yesterday with pull ups saying that they started potty training her at home which I don't believe and left her there I was like excuse me no notice, not asking and me knowing they'll be leaving soon how can I trained a child in three months sure! anyway I hope everything work out for you! hang in there!

[bright sparks]

I personally don't like potty training, I done it many times and it always comes bad with the parents, they get very defensive if we suggest anything. Hopefully you can find a happy medium Good Luck!
I'm in a situation where mom is expecting her second child in Jan and dad brought me her daughter yesterday with pull ups saying that they started potty training her at home which I don't believe and left her there I was like excuse me no notice, not asking and me knowing they'll be leaving soon how can I trained a child in three months sure! anyway I hope everything work out for you! hang in there!

I don't mind toilet training at all. Parents generally in my experience get away with what we allow them to get away with. I start off at my interview with parents making it very clear that this is my business and I run it a certain way.PERIOD. While I am flexible in many areas to accommodate the needs of individual children and their varying needs, I do not allow the parents to call the shots and they understand this from day one. I have a contract that I enforce everytime. I also make it clear that potty training is led by myself and I will be the one to decide when we start based on a list of criteria and through constant communication with parents. I don't ask the parents, I tell them. It isn't about being rude, but simply taking the lead as the individual spending 50 hours a week doing the actual training and in a group setting no less. It is a collaborative relationship in all aspects and I have this expectation of the parents and hold them to it. If you are having resistance from parents, then perhaps reassess your approach. I know a lot of people are worried about offending, but stop worrying and as long as you are not rude, you can be firm and stand your ground and be the one calling the shots. I think you will find that most providers who don't experience these kinds of issues have been where you are now, but once developing a zero tolerance policy for these type of parents BS, have a much better experience overall in the job. If you let the parents know that any other way will not be tolerated, and you prove it by standing your ground from day 1, they are almost just like the kids lol There is a set expectation of them, and they know you won't be swayed and you uphold your rules and methods, so maybe they will challenge it once, but once they see that this is how it is and you can not be controlled, they do as they are told :)

[littlefish]

yes, I love your approach, my only thing is that I don't mention it in the beginning they see my lead as as we go along and they don't like it, I should do it at the beginning you're right! for example now that I didn't accept to potty trained the girl because she doesn't show me signs the parents are acting kind a cold when they weren't like that. so difficult! thanks for your input I'll put it in practice. :)

[FernT]

What I first wore was cloth training pants! Just that I was terrified peeing naked and inside pants which I’d see my pee! While I got a being inside my cloth training pants which was why I could pull my cloth training pants ever before I wore pants! Esp I got a crush on the soft feel on my pee and my cloth training pants covering my pee! When I could pull down my pants I still wasn’t naked due to that my cloth training pants were still on which I was unambulatory to strip of! Even when I wore boxer brief undies, I was unambulatory to strip of my boxer brief undies! I just then try to pull the bottom and back of my boxer brief undies!

[FernT]

Plus when I walked into daycare I walked inside my cloth training pants! That’s why I no one even myself could see that I peed! My cloth training pants were my pee pants! My cloth training pants were my love pants!