Sick days...

[childcare]

Hi,
I am curious what other daycare providers do for sick days. Do you get paid for them? How often do you take them in a year? I took 5 last year plus closing early a few times, and some of my DC parents are unhappy about the amount of time I am taking off. I am sick at the moment with a respiratory infection (so far this will be about my 3rd sick day this year.) And some of my parents are upset. I gave them lots of notice. Does anyone have similar experience? I don't ask for pay when I'm sick.

[Busy ECE mommy]

I don’t have specific sick days, as I take 4 weeks holidays and my sick days are included in the 4 weeks. I usually only need 1 sick day a year, and maybe 2 days for appointments, the rest is my holiday time. 2 weeks are paid and 2 weeks are not. My daycare parents know that I don’t take sick days unless absolutely necessary. I only close if it is for an illness that I would send a daycare child home for( ie. fever over 101/stomach flu/strep/pink eye/ contagious stuff etc.
It will depend what your contract specifies for time off.

[BlueRose]

I get paid the same amount every two weeks, no matter if I am open or closed. They pay me a flat weekly tuition.

I take 4 weeks holidays. I take sick, personal, bereavement and emergency days as needed within reason. I don't have a set number of days. I don't get sick enough to close very often.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I get paid a flat rate too allowing me a max of 10 days vacation and 5 days sick per year. That said, in over 20 years, I have taken 2 days off sick. I do think actually taking the 5 days is a lot especially if you are also closing early sometimes. Bear in mind, we are self employed and not employees so it's going to annoy client's if you are acting like an employee and closing early or allocating yourself too much time off, especially if you are expecting them to pay for it.
I don't think it's reasonable to have it both ways - i.e. early closing at times and paid time off. If we are contracting for our service to be available between certain hours and if our contacts also allow us time off, then expecting client's to come early too some days is taking advantage.
At least if you have some paid days each year, you can then provide lots of notice if you won't be open on a given day and use that from your contracted paid days.
While I totally understand that you get sick sometimes, it isn't always the cost that parents struggle with. It's the reliability. They have to work which is why they arrange for care of their child. Closing early or short notice sends all the families into a scramble. They better understand if that's not a common occurrence.
To have had 3 sick days already this year and we are barely out of March would also have me concerned if I were one of your client's. At this rate, they are looking at one day a month - 12 days a year. That is a lot.

Why do you think you are getting sick so often? Are you sanitizing your toys regularly not just cleaning them? To santize toys they need to be in bleach and hot water or disinfectant and hot water for a prolonged amount of time. A quick wipe with a disinfectant cloth is not enough to kill lingering germs and the green cleaners or white vinegar solutions do not offer sanitizing.

Is the bathroom you are using for day care cleaned at least once a day? What about the bedding the children are on and their sleep mats? High chairs? Door knobs? Hard surfaces the children touch? Have you been checked for other underlying issues?

If I am frank - if you were my provider and closing early with 5 sick days last year and three already this year, I would be looking for a more reliable provider.

[Crayola kiddies]

I have been open since Jan 2011 and have never closed for a sick day ... I have 3 weeks holidays and 7 personal days however my personal days must be booked in advance and they are not to be used for sick days... I do not expect payment for my sick days even though when I catch a cold or sore throat it's usually from one of the kids. If I am not feeling up to par I work through it and rest in the evening.... fortuanelty any time I have gotten something a little more serious it was on the weekend and I was able to open on the Monday

[Peacefulbird]

Hi,
. I gave them lots of notice. Does anyone have similar experience? I don't ask for pay when I'm sick.

Im not sure what you mean. Does it means you know wayyy ahead when you're going to be sick? If so obviously parents get upset.

Anyway, I have five sick days but, also it had to be extreme sickness to use them I only used 1 day in almost 20 years working. And my families know I try to do my best in booking appointments after my work hours or during weekends, or during my vac. Time or holidays. If for any reason I couldn't find a day to do so then the daycare remains open and my husband or a parent in charge stays with the group for few hours. Another time I thought closing was because I didn't have hydro but I improvised placed flash lights on my sealing a A parent brought warm milk in thermos and we had a blast.

During my interviews I always tell parents that my sick days will be used only in extreme situations. When I really need it and it is payed.

I personally would also suggest to be aware that your current situation could potentially damage your credibility and reputation, parents talk my references usually pass on that information onto potential clients, I had clients coming for their first interview knowing already that I'm the woman who "never gets sick"; obviously far from the truth but I just tell them that I respect the importance of their jobs and I try to do my best to accommodate I book my dr. Appointments during evenings or weekends.

[childcare]

Thank you ladies for your input and experience. I should have been a little more clear I suppose in that I give the parents lots of notice. I meant I let them know as soon as I get a fever etc... And I don't surprise them the morning I have to take a sick day. Therefore, they would have as much notice as possible.
As far as my time off (or sick days....) Goes, I don't believe I am taking advantage as I stated in my post that I do not get paid when I take a sick day. I don't expect payment when I am sick or take time off for whatever reason, therefore I don't know how I can take advantage of sick time. I realize that I probably have taken more sick days than most, and my DC parents are somewhat unhappy about it, but I do not take time unless absolutely necessary. (eg unless high fever, kids with high fever, vomiting etc..). I was just curious about other daycare providers and how they handle it, so I really appreciate all of the feedback. I have been a parent of children using daycare services for 5yrs so I understand the frustration when a provider is not available for whatever reason and I definitely do my best to ensure families are satisfied with the care I give to the children.
Thanks for everyone that responded! Take care!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

As far as my time off (or sick days....) Goes, I don't believe I am taking advantage as I stated in my post that I do not get paid when I take a sick day. I don't expect payment when I am sick or take time off for whatever reason, therefore I don't know how I can take advantage of sick time.

As explained, it`s not necessarily about charging parents or not charging parents - it`s about reliability.

Any consumer expects reliability. Think about when you have scheduled a hair cut, or a delivery, or for the utilities company to come out, or for a dental/doctors appointment - it`s annoying and frustrating when they are running late or when you get a call a few days before a long standing appointment to reschedule because the doctor/dentist/service provider will be on vacation. And there`s are just for services that happen infrequently. However, when it comes to child care, parents are unable to work unless someone is caring for their child. A child care provider has got to be consistently reliable.

Unless you happen to be in an area where demand for child care outstrips the available options, very few can tolerate having unreliable care.

Most employees get 10 days paid leave in this country. If they are having to call their employer 5 days a year to state they won`t be in work, that`s a lot. The ripple effect is they become unreliable employees and likely are subject to disciplinary action themselves. Long gone are the days when people remain in their home towns and so it`s not uncommon that a young family lives a long way from grandparents and extended family who could step in short notice. While of course, parents need to understand that in a day home, there`s a risk that some days you won`t be available and they will need back up care or the ability to stay home with their own child, if that becomes too common an occurrence, they are going to look elsewhere.

While I can accept that you are giving them notice of closing, even if you are contacting them the evening before closing, most employees will not be able to contact their boss and let them know until the morning anyway.



I realize that I probably have taken more sick days than most, and my DC parents are somewhat unhappy about it, but I do not take time unless absolutely necessary. (eg unless high fever, kids with high fever, vomiting etc..).

Being self employed, with contracts to provide care to others, then just as parents need a plan B, so do you. It`s one thing to take time off if YOU are ill but if you have taken 5 days yourself and also closing when your own children are ill, you need to reassess your own plan B. If you have a spouse, then perhaps he needs to be home when your own children are ill so that he can care for your children while you run your business. After all, this is the exact same situation you are requiring of your clients with the added time for your own sickness - that they look after their own child when their child is sick and that they look after their own child when you are sick.

If sickness strikes your family member, find ways to disinfect the common space in the evening before opening, have your partner stay home with your child and isolate them away from the day care space and children. This is especially key when you have closed so frequently during the year already.

[Crayola kiddies]

I rarely get sick so it's hard for me to relate but if you wake up with a fever can't you just pop a couple Tylenol or Advil and carry on ? I worked through colds and sore throats nothing that I wouldn't go into work for if I worked out of the home ...are you really that sick that you can't muscle through it

[childcare]

Thank you ladies again for your responses. I'm pretty sure anyone who knows me, including my daycare parents know that I am tough and can muscle through common colds etc... I am not sure why I feel the need to explain reasons for my sick days 4 of my sick days last year were because of something different than colds, flus... but an uncommon autoimmune disorder that I was diagnosed with a few years ago. This does not mean that I am unable to provide adequate care or the inability to run a successful daycare, however, it sometimes might mean I clearly take more sick time than most.. my question was how my fellow daycare providers handle it etc... I see now that no one that responded can relate and that is fine. That is great if most of you don't take sick days. I wrote that the days I have taken were because of fever etc I just really didn't think I had to go into detail as to why I am taking sick days, but I feel I do as I am a very strong woman and I am definitely not weak. I can muscle through fevers like the best of em!
Thanks ladies and take care!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

.. but an uncommon autoimmune disorder that I was diagnosed with a few years ago. This does not mean that I am unable to provide adequate care or the inability to run a successful daycare, however, it sometimes might mean I clearly take more sick time than most.. my question was how my fellow daycare providers handle it etc... I see now that no one that responded can relate and that is fine. That is great if most of you don't take sick days. I wrote that the days I have taken were because of fever etc I just really didn't think I had to go into detail as to why I am taking sick days, but I feel I do as I am a very strong woman and I am definitely not weak. I can muscle through fevers like the best of em!
Thanks ladies and take care!

When my husband was diagnosed with cancer in December 2016, it meant that he had to go to daily radiation in the city. Obviously he was not well enough to drive himself in and out. Once a week after his radiation, he had a meeting with his oncologist and we found that he wasn't taking information in as well as he normally would and so I needed to go with him for that.

Clearly I couldn't close my day home for several weeks because parents don't get that much time off and I was concerned if they went elsewhere, they would not want to then come back and have another adjustment for their child.

Our son drove him in and out but knowing that once a week I needed to go with him, we found someone to provide back up care.

Since you clearly know you have the potential for sick days, and since your client's clearly didn't get that message even if you tried to forewarn them at interview, perhaps you also need a plan B.

Find someone who you trust. Pay for their police checks if they don't have them. Get the children used to that person. And add a clause into your contracts that in the event of illness, you have a back up carer, that parents will be notified if you are ill and that carer will be in your place. Then all you have to do is isolate yourself out of the day care space or any common spaces.

It required a huge amount of cleaning and sanitizing to make sure that with a compromised immune system my husband didn't catch anything from the day care children. The same amount of cleaning will be required for you to ensure you don't pass anything to the children. Same situation, different people at risk of being passed sickness.

This might sound harsh - but when you know that you will likely have more time off sick than the average person, or your availability might be compromised more than other provider's, then you plan for that. And yes, it does mean paying for someone to cover your business but the alternative of losing your business due to being unreliable is worth the expense.

All in all, my husband was in treatment for 6 weeks so 6 days I paid for cover for the day home. Yes, it meant paying more than I earned those days but that's the way it goes. He still has regular checks and in time, if nothing more is found the frequency of those will reduce but for now, we keep the same back up carer, inform client's as soon as we have an appointment and we bring in the back up carer. We also bring her in every couple of weeks anyway just so the children can maintain a relationship with her for the time being.

I can relate - I just don't compromise on my reputation of being a reliable provider with a quality program.

[childcare]

Thank you Suzie_Homemaker! I appreciate you opening up about your husband and some things that you tried and that worked for you. I have been using my mom as a backup for appointments and such. This is a great way for me to ensure clients are happy and kids are taken care of for scheduled appointments. I think the best strategy for me is to use my backup for sick days (which I haven't done yet). I think then at least if I have to take a sick day I don't have to inconvenience parents. I don't know why I haven't been doing that, but I will for now on.
Again, I appreciate all of your input and honesty!

[ebhappydc]

I wish I could charge for sick days and even some personal days/holidays. But pickings are too slim in my area, so I can't. Luckily, I'm rarely ill and don't have many appointments now my kids are grown. Wouldn't taking all this paid time off make centers more attractive to clients? They are available every day to children are they not regardless of employee health and appointments etc?
I wouldn't want to give a family any more reason to go to center. I do of course charge when their child doesn't attend. ?

[Peacefulbird]

I wish I could charge for sick days and even some personal days/holidays. But pickings are too slim in my area, so I can't. Luckily, I'm rarely ill and don't have many appointments now my kids are grown. Wouldn't taking all this paid time off make centers more attractive to clients? They are available every day to children are they not regardless of employee health and appointments etc?
I wouldn't want to give a family any more reason to go to center. I do of course charge when their child doesn't attend. ?

Absolutely.

I'm not sure where you are but in Ontario we are going through so many changes and our work as private or independent homedaycares have been scrutinized, they're doing everything possible to bring it up to the media and show how bad and unreliable are the "independent or private homedaycares" yet they do not show publicly, incidents that also happens in the licensed sector.

We, who make our living through this work and support our families, we keep defending ourselves, we keep showing that offering services in our homes doesn't mean that we lack of proffesionalism.

If we keep advocating for our proffesionalism we must assume that role and act responsible as one.

Yes, we can go and work on centres (some offer good benefits some don't but in general the pay is low, having access to sick days or vacations etc is also relative) parents go to centres because they've been sold on the idea that a centre is better (honestly far from the truth, unless you visit centres operated directly by the government non-for profit and their educators have generous benefit packages and belong to an unionized system ).

Unfortunately thanks to those selfish, unprofessional, and people who don't care for the rest of us or families or children, we have all been affected (they didn't have any social responsibility ).

Now, it is up to us to keep cleaning our image and act as competent professionals in the field. We are against a huge mountain I found this some time ago. An agency uses this to attract and convince parents:

"while many unlicensed or informal home daycare Providers do a very good job, the absence of regulatory safeguards or of a back-up Provider should the home child care provider fall I'll or be otherwise unavailable are two of the major reasons many parents prefer Licensed child care"- ADCO

Now you judge it and tell me what do you thing about this?

It is upsetting but that's one of the reason I do act with professionalism just so parents are aware that my caring services are competent and still keep it in an environment that nurtures children "Home".

[Peacefulbird]

..When my husband was diagnosed with cancer in December 2016, it meant that he had to go to daily radiation in the city. Obviously he was not well enough to drive himself in and out. Once a week after........

Im really sorry to hear your situation Suzie_Homemaker, I went through a similar situation with my husband on Feb, he went through a major surgery, but same as you the very same day of the surgery I was open and working (but also had arranged a back up in case of an emergency requiring my presence at the hospital; my group of parents were very supportive so, we all had open phone lines that day and one by one called after the surgery to ask and see how can they help. Having not any relatives here in Canada it really meant a lot to us.

I just cannot imagine the pain you went through, hopefully it is all ok now.

I'm sure it would have been easy to close shop but, we have a responsibility towards families that rely on us. Life must continue, I was advised to close for the surgery day but my mind and my stress probably could have driven me crazy in 8 hrs of surgery. I kept working and distracted the time went fast and at the end at the day I went to the hospital and stayed beside my husband's bed after his successful surgery.

I cannot relate how you did it Suzie_Homemaker for that lenght of time. You're a strong woman.

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Im really sorry to hear your situation Suzie_Homemaker,

I just cannot imagine the pain you went through, hopefully it is all ok now.
I cannot relate how you did it Suzie_Homemaker for that lenght of time. You're a strong woman.

Thank you.

It was and still is a very frightening time. We are lucky that one of our four sons is still in this Province and fairly local but of course he has a family and work commitments of his own too. My husband has been amazing. No complaints and he really struggled some days. Not in the clear yet but he will be checked regularly and we just hope for no active cancer growth each time. We were very lucky and received exceptional care and treatment.

Fortunately my husband is a stubborn old goat so that was a big help and my client's were fantastic. Meals left at the door, offers to drive him into the city if my son wasn't able to on some days and thankfully amazingly understanding when we do have to notify them of the next appointment and bring in the back up carer.

It teaches you to value each and every day and to not take tomorrow for granted.

[Peacefulbird]

It teaches you to value each and every day and to not take tomorrow for granted.

You're absolutely right Suzie_Homemaker, and I will say to that one, AMEN.

[susansmith]

BlueRose If I can ask...4 weeks vacation...are these paid weeks ....and is it the same for sick, personal, bereavement and emergency days? I realize we can all put whatever we want in our contracts, but I will say...it's not easy to find clients that will pay for all that....my clients frown about paying for when they take vacation, let alone me!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

BlueRose If I can ask...4 weeks vacation...are these paid weeks ....and is it the same for sick, personal, bereavement and emergency days? I realize we can all put whatever we want in our contracts, but I will say...it's not easy to find clients that will pay for all that....my clients frown about paying for when they take vacation, let alone me!

While I don't take 4 weeks, I do have 10 days which are paid. I was one of the first to have paid days in my area and I admit that initially for new client's, it did raise some eyebrows. But yes, that would include any closures regardless of the reason.

How I brought it in was simple math. I had not increased fees for a few years and I had a stable group who had been in my care for some time. I proposed to them that since I hadn't increased fees, I would make the commitment to keep fees as they were for 2 years with 10 paid days or I would have to make a fee increase and set aside the extra for when I was off.

It was an easy sell but unlike Ontario and other provinces, child care is less expensive here. I'm the top end for my area at $38 a day and I do understand that for parents paying $50+ for their day home, paid closures aren't so easy to sell.

But for me, $38 x 10 paid days would cost each client $380 a year. Or a $2 a day increase x 5 days a week x 50 weeks a year would cost them $500 a year.

Once paid days were in the contract and accepted by the core group, then finding one client who accepted it each time there was a vacancy wasn't so bad. I see since I introduced them in my day care, more and more local providers also do the same. I do have in my contracts that any leave I was to take over 10 days would be unpaid but I've never taken more than 10 days.

[susansmith]

Thank you Suzie_Homemaker for that input. That explanation makes great sense!

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Thank you Suzie_Homemaker for that input. That explanation makes great sense!

The other way to introduce a change is to amend your master contract so each new child who joins from now onwards, has the new terms. Depending on the age group in your care now it might mean a couple of years before your whole client base has turned over but sometimes it's easier to bring in change as new client's join vs force a change on all already in your care who didn't sign up for the changes.

You will have to try and figure out what is a reasonable amount of time in your area. In Canada, the base number of days leave that people get is 2 weeks and anything more is subject to company policy or length of employment. If you are in a high demand area, then it's easier to implement these changes if you have a good rep and are known. However, if you are in an area that is saturated with options for day homes of a comparable quality, then it's harder to require more "benefits" than other providers charge for especially if your client base are employed in roles where they only get the minimum's themselves.

I know that in my area, 4 weeks leave would be a deal breaker for most clients even if 2 weeks were paid and 2 weeks were unpaid. It's not that they don't value my service, it's simply that a high number of parents are single parents, a lot of employers locally do not offer more than 2 weeks leave, and it would truly be impossible for most people to be home with a child for 4 weeks each year without them being unpaid for part of that themselves or facing issues with their own employer for the extended leave each year. As it is with 2 weeks, I am effectively dictating when my client's get their 2 weeks off since that's the typical leave entitlement for employees. There's no way they would be able to cover my unavailability if I were to have double their leave entitlement and take 4 weeks. What I do commit to is having one full week of my leave on the same dates every year and that way, they can plan for when I am off. The other days tend to be taken as odd days here and there with any unused leave being taken between Christmas and the New year when people are more likely to be off themselves or have family visiting who could cover their childcare needs.

[Peacefulbird]

BlueRose If I can ask...4 weeks vacation...are these paid weeks ....and is it the same for sick, personal, bereavement and emergency days? I realize we can all put whatever we want in our contracts, but I will say...it's not easy to find clients that will pay for all that....my clients frown about paying for when they take vacation, let alone me!

Hi, from my own experience I can tell you to write anything you want on your contract but, you must consider pros and cons. I am very friendly and open during my interviews or meeting parents on parks, playgroups etc.

I like to stay in touch with my community that also gives me a first hand feed back of what other provider's do or don't do. (Word travels, and especially bad news or negative ones sooner than good ones)

I had heard parents talking about pages and pages of contracts, I have heard parents especulating about certain contracts which played a huge role on their decision making process, I had heard parents complaining about caregivers cutting any communication channels but only emails (raising red flags to them), sometimes they ask me or refer me as to explain if our contracts are somehow regulated or if they can be negotiated.

I always said my contract is only three pages point form 1 1/2 spaced and really clear (not complex terms etc) and simple.

I'm just crossing my fingers for the Ministry of education not to also step on this subject and create an guidelines for an universal contract (many contracts are really ridiculus, poor parents in some cases due to their desesperate need they sign and then struggle).

So, I think it is standard for all of us to have 10 days more or less payed Holidays.
I have 10 days summer break (payed but, in Ontario you cannot write in your contract as vac pay. Because you're self employed) so, I clearly explain parents during my interviews that I do close my daycare for 10 days in summer and I do my best to coordinate those at the beginning of each year so they're able either to take work vacations the same dates (so they do not have to deal with other childcare arrangements) and if they really need childcare I give along a list of different options.

In many years no one used the list everyone got to book the very same days of vacations (every beginning of the year also is asked if they have any suggestions for dates and we just go with the majority), I also close during Christmas and new year (I think at the most 3 workable days); I used to be open but I had only one or non children coming due to family visits, trips etc. So I close it and it is payed. I have the 5 day sickness leave (but as I mentioned I have only used 1 day in nearly 20 years of work).

That's it. I place all this point form and it is clear and understandable. I've noticed that being my contract clear made some of my clients sign on the spot (because and they told me they got some contracts to no end obviously mostly on benefit of the caregiver than a equitable parts parents and caregivers).

They also told me that to refer by any situation to those contracts gets complex and short and concise form is easy to remember and refer . (I'm simple so I guess that applies to me😉)

[Suzie_Homemaker]

Clear documents are vital. If you ever have to go to court with a problem, your documents must be unambiguous and simple to understand. If they are overly long, or complicated, the Judge will likely rule that it's unreasonable for parents to understand what your policies are.

I have two documents and a private FB group for current clients for open communication.

My contact is a 2 page document that is fixed. Who are the clients, what is the child's name, when care is to start, which days they are registered for care, what my business hours are and if any agreement has been reached for extended care/early drop off, required notice of termination, what is included in my fees and what parents have to provide, what my fees are and that in the event of fee increases parents will be given 14 days notice, and a firm statement that my handbook details my policies, is part of the contracted agreement, that the parent has seen the handbook at signing and has a copy in their hands, and what version number they received.

My handbook details my policy and is more fluid. This means as policy changes either due to provincial regulations or my own amendments, this document can and will change from time to time. It clearly states that parents will be given 14 days notice of a policy change unless it's a provincial change beyond my control and that after those 14 days the amendment has come into effect. That amended handbooks are issued via the FB group, and that a parent continuing in my care after the date of change is deemed to have accepted the amendment.

Again, this has to be a clear document and not too long. Mine is 5 pages in total. It covers late payment fees and that care will not be provided until accounts are up to date, what the pay schedule is, late collection fees, the procedure that will be followed in an emergency, how much notice parents get if I am taking a paid personal day, requirement for immunization, the Provincial public health guidelines for excluding a sick child, sickness policy, head lice/pet flea/bed bug policy, notice period for either party and the circumstances where I will terminate care without no notice, toilet training requirements, etc.

One other thing it is really important to know - if you have a policy documented that you do not enforce, then you put yourself in a position of weakness in asking a court to enforce any other policy. For instance, if you have a late pick up change that you never charge because you are embarrassed to ask for it, then you must either start enforcing it or remove it from your documents. A Judge will argue that if one policy is not enforced, then why would client's believe you are going to enforce a different aspect of your contracted terms.