Red flags?

Hi all,

Warning: this is going to be a loooooong post...sorry.

I've just started my daycare - literally two days in and already I'm having issues. Tuesday and Wednesday I had a 3 year old part timer in and she's great, the problem is the parents. It took a long time for the mom to make up her mind about putting her daughter in care here, mostly just procrastination I think but I did finally have an interview with her and her daughter 2 weeks before she was going to start. It went great I thought - I answered her questions easily and I went over the policy highlights with her and I played with her daughter. I sent her home with my policy and other forms to be filled out by her first day of care. We set up another visit the next week just to make sure her daughter was comfortable here. At that visit, we chatted and I asked if she had any questions about the policy and she told me she hadn't had a chance to read it yet. That should have been my first clue. That visit was earlier in the week and then it was the long weekend. My husband and I were out on a day trip when she texts me balking first at the part of my policy that states that I will be closed for stat holidays but that payment is required because you're paying for a spot, not days attended. She then was confused about a sentence that said that when I transfer care over to a responsible adult (herself or whoever else has permission to pick up the child) I will make sure they understand that the girl is now in their care, not mine (she thought I was just going to hand her child over to some random). By this time, I'm walking around a huge, busy fair, stopping every few minutes to text her back and my husband is getting frustrated (justifiably) so when she texts asking what I consider to be an emergency and says that they are paying me to watch their daughter, not some random person they don't know. (talking about the part of my policy that covers what happens if I suddenly have to leave and close) I'm a little offended at this point because (I know it's hard to read tone through a text but) she seemed to be snarky and not really giving me the benefit of the doubt that I had good reasons or explanations for the things I have in my policy. When I received that text, I started texting her back, explaining myself when my husband suggested I ask if I can call her the next day to answer her questions. He brought up a good point that she seemed to be reading the policy and asking questions as she went which might mean I would be texting back and forth all day. I thought it was a good idea so that's what I did - she texted me back: "That's the last question I had - just text me when you have a chance"

So I left it for the day and tried not to let it bother me. I texted her the next morning with my explanation (a big long text explaining it as clearly as I could) and asked if that made sense and answered her question. I didn't hear from her all day until late at night when she texted to say that she was at a friends, her phone was about to die and could she text me in the morning. I thought, "you have enough battery to text me all that but not to say yes or no to whether I answered your question?" but I texted back: that's fine. The next day is the holiday Monday and by 2pm I haven't heard from her. At this point I'm wondering if she's even going to bring her daughter the next day :unsure: So I text her again to follow up and she texts back regarding my explanation: "it makes more sense like that...you should change the policy so it sounds better" and lets me know what time her boyfriend is dropping off her daughter. I roll my eyes because I'm pretty sure I made it about as clear as I can and I say: "great! don't forget to bring all the signed forms, the cheque for this week, and a family picture if you have one to spare :)"

Here's the excerpt from my policy about emergencies:

"In case of an emergency situation that requires my immediate attention, I will attempt to call in one of my substitute child care providers. If available, one of these substitutes will come to the center to stay with the children until you or the emergency contact for your child are able to pick up your child. I will leave instructions with the substitute that will include the names and ages of children present, arrival and departure information for each child including the names of people authorized to pick up the child, the location of the childrens' files including emergency contact information, consent for emergency medical treatment, any special health care needs and the schedule of the child care. I encourage you to have alternative care prepared in the rare case of an emergency. Tuition fees will be discounted or waived when I am closed because of an emergency." (my substitutes will have their police checks, although I guess I forgot to mention that in my policy - so sue me - actually, please don't!)

I don't hear anything else and the dad drops her off the next morning. He gives me all the forms, half filled in but no signed policy. When I mention it, he says he didn't realize they had to sign the policy and that he did his best with the forms but he didn't know everything that was supposed to be on them. So I ask him to bring it the next day (wed) and to have mom complete the forms that night and bring them back as well. He fills out a cheque for me so that was good and I remind him that since the next day(wed) is her last enrolled day for the week, the cheque for next week is due then. I have a good day with the girl. He picks her up and takes home the forms again. When he drops her off the next day, he explains that when he got home last night, he didn't get a chance to see the mom so the forms are still not filled out, still no policy and because the cheques are in mom's name, he didn't have a chance to fill one of those out either. I'm a little frustrated but I also understand that the mom is going back to school and the dad is looking for a job so things might be a little hectic so I try to cut them some slack. Mom picks her up at the end of the day and I mention the half filled out forms, the missing policy, and the missing cheque (after talking about the good day we had, etc) she didn't say much about any of it. I asked her to bring everything on Monday. What she DID talk about was how, (even though it's in my policy that I will provide sunscreen and have written permission, including the brand and ingredient strength, from parents to use it on their child) she wants me to use the sunscreen she brought instead. It took me off guard and I didn't really know what to say so I ended up not saying anything. How I really feel is that a)I don't like that she's just deciding something other than what's in my policy and b) it's fine now when I only have her child but the reason I decided to provide the sunscreen was so that I could slather the same stuff on everyone instead of trying to keep track of who's sunscreen is who's. The other thing that kind of frustrated me was her mom showing me a toothbrush in her bag and saying that it's for me to brush her daughter's teeth with after meals. I provide breakfast, morning snack, lunch and afternoon snack. I (almost incredulously) asked her: "after EVERY meal?" "yes" "like after breakfast, snack, lunch and snack?" "no, just breakfast and lunch would be fine" "Allllright" It's not the biggest deal I guess but I'm already in the bathroom, helping the daughter with her clothing whenever she has to go, helping her with the tap to wash her hands 10+ times a day and now I need to be in there 2 more times to brush her teeth? How much time out of my day and schedule do I need to take to spend in the bathroom with this one child?!? And maybe I wouldn't be so annoyed about it if their forms had been filled out and the policy and next week's cheque were in my hands and she hadn't insisted on HER particular sunscreen...she didn't even look at what sunscreen I had - dad signed the permission form for sunscreen.

I'm just wondering if this is a rough start or if they are red flags and what your thoughts are on how I should handle all this. On Monday, if/when they bring the cheque, it's technically 4 days late according to my policy. Not sure whether I should insist on that or give them a break. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on any or all of this. Sorry it's a novel - maybe I've missed my calling.

Additional (not really important) info (as if I haven't said enough yet): 3 year old is coming 4 days a week now (Mon-Thurs) and my full timer is starting in the middle of next week (7 month old boy who is very easy going and who's mom is awesome and has already returned all the forms and thought my policy was very standard and is bringing the cheque for his first week at her last visit with him at the beginning of the week. so I'm really looking forward to them :) has nothing to do really with this story but I just thought I'd share that I have another child coming that I'm really excited for and who's mom has been an excellent first experience for me (she enrolled first, this other mom just started care first)

K, didn't read through your whole post yet - will do that tomorrow when I'm not so tired!

BUT first things first....You were on family time! I do not answer any calls/emails/texts when it's the weekend/holidays. AND....you kept on responding. Just from that first couple of paragraphs, I would terminate that family. Having a home daycare is definitely a learning curve. Not denying that at all.

Trust your gut. I will NEVER EVER sign on a potential client again had they NOT read my manual before the interview. I give a simple instruction, and should have them follow through. It's really not that hard, KWIM? If they can't do that, then they don't RESPECT me or my business.

If you have any questions or need help, PM me. I'd love to help!

You need to fix this now or it is only going to get worse. Tell her that if she does not have the forms, cheques, etc... on Monday at drop off, then you will not care for her daughter until the fees are paid up and if you charge a late fee, I would do that too, so she knows you mean business. It seems like she is trying to be the boss of you, and you need to let her know who is in charge.

Once a break always a break hon. I have learned through my first year in business to keep everything the same for anyone regardless of what they think. I now have a rule, if you do not have all the forms filled out you do not start care period. Same with the monrey--no cash no care. They can easily send you an email transfer to deal with money owing.

I personally would send them a firmly worded email stating that in order for care to continue you must have all care fees (Including any late fees that you charge) on Monday morning at drop off or care will be refused. And, termination will follow.

I, like play and learn give out a copy of my contract/handbook to parents once they say that they are interested in my program. If they cannot take the time to read it it is not within my job discription to make sure they have.

I know it will suck big time to lose clients at the begining, but Id rather lose the bad apples and get good ones than suffer through it....

Hope that helps

Just to see if I'm understand this.. her last enrolled day for the week is Wednesday so parents need to pay on Wednesday for the following week? I do monthly payments so for me it's a little different but shouldn't payment be due either on the Friday or the Monday morning of following week? If a parent chooses to pay on the Wednesday rather than make a special trip to you on the Friday that's different but I personally wouldn't consider it 4 days late come Monday morning.

As for the rest I would wait and see how they settle in. As you said it's a stressful and hectic time in thier own personal lives right now and as a parent finding daycare and dealing with the forms and such required can be hard. If you continue to have these problems it's a different story but I would cut them some slack to begin with. I'm not saying do care without fees or without having your manuals/policies signed off on, I wouldn't let her leave Monday without that being done, but don't see them as "red flags" yet. Keep it in your mind that this has happened but give the benefit of the doubt moving forward.

Maybe it's just the newbie in me talking but sometimes I see a very hard attitude coming from people on this forum. I understand that it is years of experience backing you up in your decisions and advice but ya know.. maybe all parents aren't all bad 100% of the time. Just as we as providers aren't all perfect 100% of the time. They cut as some slack at times and I think we need to be willing to bend a little sometimes too.

Yup I agree .... She thinks she is your employer !!!! But actually you run your own business and you provide a service for which she requires. This will not likely get better but much worse. So tomorrow remind her about the forms and payment needed for monday... And if she comes on Monday without the fees and paperwork tell her you are not able to provide care. Forget cheques start using EMT's then there is no excuse for forgotten payment and ask for payment on the Friday for the following two weeks. Good luck

I would require her to drop of next weeks fees this evening if she wants you to provide care for next week!

Sounds like a difficult client. She is probably feeling very uneasy about leaving her child in daycare so she is attempting to find any excuse to make the experience horrible. I think she could try to walk awayon her own not leaving things on a good note. I would try to replace them right away.

As for payement and policy I would remind her that care will not be provided until all required documents and payement are received and would also remind her of late payment fees and that your WILL apply your policy. I had a temp. family that 'forgot' but when I told them about my policy and that I would not be able to provide care for them until they provided what is stated in the policy .... they stopped 'forgetting'. They were however more pleasant to deal with so I did give them a chance :)

first off: NEVER answer a "day Care" call or text on personal time, UNLESS it will not disrupt of offend current company. Maybe next time just leave the phone at home or in the car, that way the text wont bother your curious brain (like they do mine) :)
second: any parent who has not read your contracts after having several meetings...is not going to respect you as much as you want. (think about it, if she really "cared" she would have taken them home and read them right away if not at your home)
note: I ALWAYS have the parents sit at my table with the contract in hand, I inform them I would like them to go over them and read all while I take their child in the living room and play for a bit, I give them sufficient time to read, them immediately sit with them and go over one section at a time. (that way, you nip issues in the bud, and all their facial expressions say it all, (texting is for minor communication not BIG issues IMO) :)
The emergency pick up (i think) was just misunderstood, just let her know that ANYONE who is to come into contact with her child must be RECORDED by her and CLEARED by her first, before pickup...ALWAYS!
The sunscreen? ahhh! as much as it IS a pain, I completely understand some issues regarding the use of certain kinds, some sunscreens have pretty funky chemicals, and it is her right as a mother to choose what goes on her child. however, she could mark the tube with her kids name or better yet, I ask parents (if they know it will be a sunscreen day) to give the child one application before drop off, to better ensure it gets on, (some days can be hectic) and it helps keep the parents responsible (so easy for them to shift responsability on us, not thinking we have like 5 others to lather also) even if its on for 2 hours before outside play, it still provides coverage. just get a signed release for her brand and make her happy. however, this could also be her way of getting you to bend over backwards for her, starts with sunscreen then moves on to all other kinds of things.
How old is this kid? 3? hmm, I understand the teeth brushing, and it can be a pain, so do a quick once over on her teeth after lunch and call it good.
You have reason to have "RED FLAGS", I would too, do you have a one month "trial" period? you may want to remind of that, and posibly use it. This one May Not be a "right fit" for you. :)
The payment: I have all dif payment arrangements with all my parents, however the ONE requirement I have is they have to pay before care is provided, I allow for one grace day and have a 25$ late fee after that. They all must pay within the first two days of each week! although most pay by the month or every two weeks (before care is provided) maybe it would have been a better approach to ask for two weeks in advance rather than get pd and ask for the next weeks pay a few days later. (you live and learn in this job) :)
lastly: and most important, IF that Mom does not give you ALL required signed forms DO NOT take her child back, she may just be playing a game, or worst case, biding her time until she finds other care because she needs care but doesnt care for your contracts. either way...cover you butt. GOOD LUCK!!

The relationship we start with a new client is set from the begining. All forms and deposit must be dropped off in order to hold the spot. NOt the first morning. I don't have time to review them if I have a child in the doorway upset that her mommy is leaving. I need to review the forms to make sure everything is on there that I need for the first day of care. So, in an interview I simply tell the client... Please fill these out at home, email any questions or call me (texts are too short to give proper responses) And once everything is dropped off then I will send you email confirmation of the start dates and a "things to bring" list.

I don't know if these are red flags or if the process has just been started wrong.

But you are where you are now... so... get your stuff signed... get payment handled for this week and get control back. Offer the client a 10 min meeting at pick up to review anything they have questions about. best to get it all out in the open now rather then later. If they don't like your policies there's the door! If she is misunderstanding some of them... maybe you could look at a rewrite to clarify.

Yes I agree w/ Apples and Bananas. I have everything signed and returned usually the week before they start,, and I send a what to being email the weekend before. I also agree that offering extra time at p/u is good if they claim they do not have the extra time..... then you know where they stand.

RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG!!

Take it from someone who just had THE WORST experience with a client thus far...this is not a good sign. When mom starts arguing a small, tiny policy, she will argue the bigger ones as well. And the fact that they haven't paid you yet...not good. It doesn't matter when you ask to be paid, you asked to be paid. And if they can't do that, then this is not a good sign. Policies are policies. This woman is a CONTROL freak and her child should be in a center or with a nanny. I strongly advice you to tread very carefully and hope she doesn't turn out like my psycho mom!

I would not take a child into care until the forms and payment had been dropped off--and I wouldn't accept it the first morning either, I like to read everything and make sure the information is there ahead of time. I ask parents to bring the form/payment, at minimum, the night before, but generally a few days or a week before they start.

If I was in your position, I would email the client and let them know that they need to bring all of the forms completed, and the payment, Monday morning at drop-off, or you will not be accepting their child into care. If they show up without everything you've asked for, you don't let that child in the door! End of story.

I agree with everyone. Nobody, not even established clients will be allowed in the door without having all contracts and forms signed properly annually. I do not cater to my clients in my own time unless I'm sending out an email to all of them to inform them of my plans for the week or maybe answering a call from them because they have a sickness and won't be attending.

Finally, signing on a new client should not be as you described. One meeting for an interview, possibly one playdate, then one more meeting to go over the contracts and forms tegether with everything being signed in my presence so questions can be answered and rules can be laid out by me. I always keep it business and professional with the parents. My program and my caring and nurturing is for the children, NOT THE PARENTS. Don't hold the parents hands! They are adults and capable of understanding and following all the rules. These parents need a time out!

Thanks for all the input so far. I've definitely learned some lessons through this experience and there are a few things that I will do differently next time. I think I'll wait to see if this sort of thing continues I decide whether I terminate or not. Like some of you said, it might be just that I didn't make my expectations clear and/or they're just disorganized right now getting started. But I'll remember everything that's happened in case things continue in this direction. The reason I expected payment on wednesday is because I have it in my policy that you pay on the child's last enrolled day of the week for the next week. I didn't have her yesterday or today. I also have it in my policy that I'm willing to work out a different payment schedule if necessary but she hasn't indicated that it's a problem (other than not paying of course) anyway, 2 things: she requested that we text rather than email because she doesn't email often so that's why we were texting. Should I still insist on email? And 2: this is what I have written up to text/email/whatever you suggest to her: Hi Sarah,*

"Hi xxxx, Just a reminder that all Xxxx's forms need to be completed and signed, including the policy, and brought Monday morning when you or Xxxx drop her off as well as the payment for the week. *If the forms are not filled out, I will not be able to provide care until they are. Also, if the payment is not provided Monday morning, I cannot provide care and payment will be considered late, incurring 4 days of late fees. According to my policy, payment is already late since it was not provided on Wednesday but I understand that the beginning of September can be a little chaotic so as long as payment arrives Monday morning, I'll waive the late fees. Have a great weekend and we'll see you Monday!"

Is this ok? Nice enough? Professional enough? Clear enough?

Thanks again for all your help - it's hard figuring out the right way to do all this :S

sounds good to me, just remember to stick to your guns! on the email/text thing. I text...its immediate and easier for me I keep my cell phone on the kitchen counter and will respond to any parents immediately through the day, only check emails every few days at most, besides this blog, I hate the computer takes up too much time!!!! :) just do whats easy for you both, little advice though, all my parents know that "my family time is my family time" I rarely return or read texts in the pm hours and on weekends (respecting my personal time with my hubby and kids) they are welcome to send a message whenever they feel prompted, but know I will respond usually monday am or maybe sunday night (maybe) when I am closed, I am closed. i figure its the same as having office hours, I will check my messages when I get to the "office" monday morning. :)

Remember that you are a businesswoman now adelaide. You must be professional and polite at all times, but nice is not one of the things you have to worry about when talking about your contracts, your rules and especially when a payment is due.

We are all nice people and too soft sometimes and that's what draws us to this profession. I'm a caring, nurturing person, but I certainly learned about taking care of myself when it comes to the business side of things. You deserve respect and you shouldn't have to ask 'nicely' to have your rules enforced. It is expected.

Thanks again :) the text is sent so we'll see what happens. I'll try and update next week if I have a chance - or earlier I guess if she replies with something. I'm definitely going to take the advice of keeping family time and business hours separate. That's a great tip and so obvious, I don't know why I didn't think of it :s

Update:

So I texted the mom on Friday, reminding her to bring the forms and payment, etc and I didn't hear anything all weekend. I wasn't sure what time they would drop the daughter off because they originally said 7am (when I open) but last week dropped her off around 8:30 (they let me know ahead of time) but I didn't know what the drop off time would be this week so I was up and ready for 7. I texted the dad at 7:15 just asking what time he was planning on coming by and I didn't hear anything. At 9, I texted both parents asking if the daughter was coming today and said that I would appreciate if they let me know either way. The mom texted saying that I needed to text the dad, that he was supposed to talk to me today and that she was driving. Soon after I heard from the dad saying that his phone was malfunctioning this morning and that he finally got it working, that they wouldn't need my services and wishing me luck. So I guess I don't have to worry about it :) It is in my policy that the first two weeks of care are a trial period and either the parents or myself can terminate care and I guess it's a good thing I had that in there because I don't have to bother chasing them down for anything. I'm actually quite ok with the way this turned out. They weren't nasty about it, I don't have to deal with them anymore, I've learned some lessons and I have the baby to look forward to. I'm a little concerned about how we're going to pay our bills this month but we'll just have to make it work. Thanks for all the advice everyone :)

Well, it all worked out for the best then! They probably realized they wouldn't be getting away with the things they thought they could and decided to find someone else to take advantage of. I know it's hard to be told that you're "not needed" but this is a blessing in disguise. I worry daily how I'm going to pay my bills, but God will always give you what you need. Just have faith and everything will turn out for the best :)

Good luck and sending you good vibes!

Wow! so glad it worked out the way it did, unfortunate that you lost a client, but fortunate at the very same time, that one like that left on their own. (and with respect toward you) too bad the Mom was a wimp and the Dad had to do the dirty work, if she could text while driving to tell you "she was driving", you'd think she could have politely returned your text with a call to say, they found other care and appreciated your "short care". whatever...either way, things ALWAYS happen for a reason and I'm sure you will be fine until another "more fitting" family comes along! Good for you! and Well Wishes on finding the Perfect Family!!!

It sounds like they were waiting to hear back from another daycare and thats why they never paid you or signed the contract. When someone is very non committal it's generally not a good sign ... Sorry this happened unfortunately it has happened to most of us .... I had two in my first year that paid the very minor deposit to hold the spots for multiple months and both went elsewhere .... Taught me to beef up my deposit and holding fees ! Never happened since ; )

So today ended up being a really good day actually. Just this afternoon, I had one mom email me looking for care for her 9 month old in January and another mom call me and leave a message gushing about my website, saying I look amazing and hoped that I still have a spot (twice) - also for January for a one year old, lol..but I don't care! It's interest, from seemingly sane people (:P), and it's actually the ages of children that I prefer working with (although, I know they'll get older but it's ok because I'll have already bonded with them. I find it harder to bond with children who are already 3 or 4 but when I've known them since they were babies, when they're 3 or 4 it's fine) The only thing left from this earlier episode is that I still haven't heard anything about these parents picking up their daughter's things. It's just clothing. Any suggestions about what to do with it?

Yay terrific news .... Some things just seem to work them selves out .... As for the clothes I would just wait till they contact you ....

Seriously with the spam already and what kind of 'translation' criteria is the spammers program using cause that makes no sense at all translated into English ~ honestly if your going to spam us at least make sure your program translates to the English language properly :rolleyes: