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This is only my opinion and please don't take it the wrong way. This is why attachment parenting is not a good idea IMO, it just makes it harder for the child to let go of things that have become habit. The only way to go is cold turkey, she will be miserable for a week or two but she will get it eventually. I think the first thing you need to work on is getting her off the breast and then work on getting her out of your bed. It isn't going to be easy but you need to set your mind to it and not give in. You have created this habit and now need to break it, she is a child, if allowed to continue she will.
yup I agree with mickyc go cold turkey same with the bed .....put her in her bed in her room and when she comes in to your room take her back over and over again till she gets it...... and again this is just my opinion but im totally against Aping just for this reason .....everything becomes a struggle ..what may seem wonderful and loving when they are infants at some point stops working for the parent and its a struggle to change those habits for the kids and its a lot of tears and guilt..you want them to grow up and be independent but that's not what you have taught them from the get go .....I have never allowed my children to sleep in my bed even when I bf my infants ...I got up went to their room picked them up fed them and put them back in their bed .......my children have never even entertained the thought of sleeping in my bed because it is something that has never happened .....they have their bed in their room and I have mine...I dislike changing a 2 year and 7 month olds diaper I could never imagine still nursing a child of that age ......sorry JMO......im all about independence ....
I've got nothing helpful for advice. My own all weaned themselves between 18 and 20 months I think. It was such a non issue that I don't even really remember when they stopped. I think if you don't feel comfortable going cold turkey, you just have to be consistent. Maybe only allow it once a day, at a time when you decide?
I know this isn't the same thing, but my youngest is almost two, and once in a while her sister will be eating something that I can't let her have. I am a bit amazed, but when I explain "that treat has gluten, you will get sick if you have gluten", she almost always seems to understand. She just accepts it and moves on. I think no matter what you decide to do, just be consistent.
I knew these were the kind of comments that were going to be put on here when she mentioned AP. Since when is nursing a 2 year old a bad thing? How is it helpful to her current situation to say so? FYI - UNICEF and the World Health Organization recommend that women breastfeed for two years or longer.
http://www.unicef.org/nutrition/index_24824.html
I commend you SevenwatersDaughter for doing it for so long, I would still be breastfeeding my 23 month old right now but for some circumstances I won't go into here, I weaned her around 18 months old. You definitely need to make some changes in order to wean your daughter, but I hope you don't take those negative comments to heart. This forum probably isn't the best place to mention AP, most here seem to consider it pretty evil.
For my family, with my youngest we co slept and then she slept in her crib in our bedroom for a little over a year. But with us it got to the point that the room sharing had to stop so that I could wean her from the night feedings. My husband also took a bigger role during the night time as it was pretty much impossible for me to get her back to sleep at night because of the breastfeeding. I never got her into the habit of needing to nurse in order to fall asleep, though I continued night feedings for a very long time. If you want to continue co sleeping you might need to find a different place to sleep for awhile and let your husband deal with night time. Don't feel guilty about it either, you've put your time in and now it is his turn! LOL. It was not an easy process, but we did it. And it did involve a good number of tears. I think you can do it gradually, nurse her one or two times during the day and then when night time comes she doesn't get anything but a glass of water from daddy.
My girls share a bedroom now, which makes both of them happy. I am guessing this is your only child, so that won't be an option for you.
I don't have alot of advice for you either, since your daughter is older than mine when I weaned. You may have better luck if you go to the Babycenter website and post on their breastfeeding forum or natural parenting forum.
IMHO....the issue many people have on this forum is with attachment parenting, not breast feeding. By age 2.5, with attachment parenting, breastfeeding has become more about comfort than nutrition!!!
I read your article Amanda and agree. However, it is promoting breastfeeding in regards to nutrition only. A child over 2 should not require night feeding and should be able to settle themselves for sleep without nursing. A child who can verbalise that they want 'boob' wants comfort, they are not hungry.
Breast feeding as a means of nurishing your child can be separate from attachment parenting.
On a daycare forum you are bound to find people who have issues with attachment parenting because the style does not lend itself to leaving your child with others...sort of goes againt the whole idea. Children are unprepared and I think it's quite unfair to suddenly expect a child to fend for themselves.
I don't think anyone here has an issue with breastfeeding. It's the combination with attachment parenting. In the OP case, it is her own child so the separation issues are not there but clearly the child needs the comfort of nursing.
I nursed my youngest until just past the age of two. For the last 2-3 months that we nursed I would tell him during the day (when he was getting grabby) that I couldn't "nursey" him because I didn't have any milk right now, and then I would only nurse him at night. Then after a few weeks I wouldn't nurse him during the night just before bed.. and maybe in the mornings sometimes. Eventually he stopped asking - and I got my body back! lol. Its a process and it takes time, as tempting as it may be to try and go cold turkey I don't suggest that at all as it would be VERY stressful for your child.
As far as sleeping I cant offer any help, we just at the age of 5 got our son to stop sleeping in our bed. HE does have a special blanket and stuffed animal that offer him a lot of comfort for sleeping on his own.
I will preface this by saying that I am posting this in support of OP. Although I am confident in my choices, please keep any judgement about my parenting to yourself.
I also breastfed older toddlers and co-slept.
My longest nurser weaned himself (with help) from night nurses at 3.5 years. I would just gently push my shirt back down and cuddle with him. Eventually he was satisfied with cuddles.
As for co-sleeping, we always had beds set up. By 3 we started them off in their bed. They would always come over to ours at some point through the night. Really didn't bother us and by the summer before they started school they were fine in their own. Our youngest will still sometimes crawl in if she has a bad dream, but 95% of the time is in her own.
This, too, is a phase and shall pass :)
I have no personal experience that will help you but wanted to share a story that I thought was kinda funny/cute and I had never heard of this method before....
One of my dcparents was telling me a couple days ago that she is done bf-ing. She said she went pretty much cold turkey when her daughter was 2 (which was a couple weeks ago) because she (mom) was ready to be done. However, her daughter wasn't. The mom told her daughter that she couldn't anymore because the "boobie police" would come and get her. Her daughter is now weaned but will sometimes still asks and mom just mentions the "boobie police"!!
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Amanda - the issue is not with the breastfeeding although I do think that over two is too long (that is just my own personal opinion). I think we need to have similar standards for our own children as we have for our daycare children. How can we expect daycare children to be independent but then turn around and say it is ok for our own children to be completely dependant on us to sleep etc. When I started daycare my daughter was 8 months old. Shortly after she turned one we were working on weaning off the bottle/soother and getting her sleep trained. How can I tell parents that I expect the same if I don't do the same with my own child? We talk about children on formula at almost 2 and how they do not need it for nutrition. I feel the same about breastfeeding. The child should be eating well enough to not need breast milk by 2.5years old! Attachment parenting is all about the parent and their inability to want to let go. It only causes more issues for their children. Like I said just my opinion but as soon as a potential daycare parent says attachment parenting I don't even want to meet them!
For heavens sakes, no one here is saying that AP is "evil!" I think this is simply the wrong forum to look to for advice on this matter. This forum is for childcare providers-people used to taking care of multiple young children at once. Most providers realize that having a child in care who has no idea how to self-soothe is a recipe for disaster. We cannot lie down with every individual child until they fall asleep, and we certainly can't breastfeed toddlers in our care before naptime! As the majority of providers with their own kids probably started their daycare when their kids were young, of their kids were born into it, AP is not something that would have worked for most of us, whether we wanted to or not. Therefore we are not going to have a lot of strategies for transitioning kids brought up this way. You would probably find more advice on a forum meant for Attachment Parents.
Personally, I think you are in for a long, hard battle. The older kids get, the more resistant they are to change, either because it frightens them, or simply because a lot of young kids are creatures of habit - they want what they want because it is familiar and comforting, not because they physically NEED it. A healthy child in the western world who has adequate food intake does not NEED to breastfeed. A child who is 2 1/2 and has never been taught to comfort or soothe herself is not going to take kindly to having the thing that she uses for comfort taken away. Absolute, no-wavering consistency is the only way she'll learn, and it will probably still be a long, difficult process for everyone. I don't have any more advice than that.
I have 5 children .... I bf all of them ..... I wished I could have fed each of them a little longer but the longest was 3 months .....but I fed for nutrition and because it was cheaper .... Once you have more then one child its not convienience for sure because the minute I would get a baby latched on one (or more) of the other kids got into sonething or misbehaved in someway that needed my immediate attention .... So it was purely nutrition and trying to save a bit of money ... Same reason I cloth diapered my first two ..... When you are bf a child who eats regular food and drinks out of a cup .... Then its for comfort only..... In third world countries then yes it's for nutrition but not here. When a child eating regular food needs to bf in the night its for comfort because they dont know any different ..... But what happens us the attachment parenting stops working for the parent .... Such as the OP stated "I am so DONE with breast feeding " and "we are trying to get her to sleep in her own bed beside ours" this parent wants her body and her bed back ..... I don't blame her ..... But I always say "start how you want to finish" If the child had always slept in her own bed and if she had weaned her off of breast feeding at around 8 or 9 months when the child was able to drink from a cup .... This thread would not exist because she would not have these issues .... And like mickeyc ..... I would not even entertain having an AP child in my daycare
I find that many families mistake AP as never letting your child cry or whimper and having a child that completely relies on you for any and all comfort.
We are an AP family. My 13 month old hears "no" often, she gets mad when she hears it, she deals with it. She has a soother and a blanket that she relies on for comfort. We bedshared most of her first year BUT I made sure she was happy in her crib and I spent a great deal of time making sure she learned to self sooth. I didn't make her cry it out but found other ways to ensure she would self sooth.
She now sleeps in her crib 98% of the time, she goes down awake, she wakes and puts herself to sleep most of the time...the other times we go in and lie her back down with her blanket and soother.
She knows that she doesn't rule the world and doesn't rule our family. We just respond to her needs when we can.
I've met many AP families that can't allow their child to whimper or cry and they have a great deal of difficulty getting through the day because their child is calling the shots. They also felt that their child could never have a soother or a blanket or a stuffed animal to attach to and their children rely completely on them to go to and stay asleep. I don't feel that that is a positive form of AP. It sets their child and their family up for a lot of hardships later on.
I still breastfeed my 13month old. She is milk intolerant so we will continue this until age 2 when the pediatric dietician said she was ok to switch to soy milk. Right now it does meet her dietary needs. It also meets her comfort needs...which I am all for BUT I don't pull the boob out at every whimper and certainly won't pull it out later on when she demands it. Children at a very young age can learn what no means and it's just a matter of simply making it known that no, you can't have "boob" now.
I would NOT advise a cold turkey stopping. That will wreak havoc on your poor boobs! I would start enforcing no when it is not appropriate to nurse. Start weaning down the number of nursing sessions...based on the ones that you prefer gone first. It can still be done gentle but needs to be done firmly and consistently.
I do believe that when raising children we need to think ahead...are we setting our child and us up for issues later? I bedshared because I need it to survive and get more sleep and my child loved it. But, I bedshared in her room on a bed, next to the crib and she slept a good part of each day in the crib so she knew it as hers. in the long run this helped all of us.
AP gets a bad rap...but I find that that bad reputation is based on the mistaken belief that AP means ensuring the child is happy 100% of the time. And that, only sets them up for failure. It is much easier to teach and infant that life just plain sucks sometimes then to have them experience this for the first time when they are adults or teenagers and don't have a boob to run too for comfort.
But, what do I know for all I know we are not actually AP because we let our child cry when she doesn't get her way, say no, set boundaries and stick to them and yes I force her down when resisting a diaper change and I tackler her into her car seat when she wants nothing to do with it!
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I care for an AP child, I posted a while ago about them and how the parents never told me upon paying their deposit and signing the contract. It was literally 2 weeks prior to starting that I found out. Now here is my opinion on AP.
I think AP is fine, I honestly do although its not for me I respect the choices people make on their parenting styles, I don't have to agree with it if it doesn't effect me. In my position it does effect me and through my experience with this child and family I have my own opinions now. This parent went online to look into alternatives to letting a child cry it out and came across AP which I don't think she had ever consciously decided to do but did out of ease for herself and when she came across a theory of parenting that reinforced that what she was doing was okay and acceptable, she decided that she would say she was attachment parenting. I think there is a huge difference between making a conscious choice to AP after research over an extended period of time, and those parents who for many reasons do not have it in them to put in the hard work of "training" a child to self sooth and be independent. I think some parents who say they AP, actually don't but the theory that is put before them excuses them from their choice not to grow a pair and deal with an overly dependent child...which seems ridiculous as obviously children, especially infants, are extrememly dependent so what I really mean is when a parents actions and choices prevent a childs healthy development of independence skills. Now I am human and have gone through my time with my youngest where he screamed continuously through the night from 12mths, absolutely fine prior to this, and no matter whether I fed him, snuggled, put him in the car for a drive, put in front of tv, just would not shut up! He came into bed with me which worked for a few weeks and then didn't, and then eventually we just strapped him in a 5 point harness stroller next to our bed with a dvd on repeat and somehow managed to rock him throughout the night to get some kind of rest. But I didn't give it a name to justify why he wasn't unable to self sooth, I simply accepted that this is a phase he is going through and I need to be able to go to work in the morning and be able to function. That's what worked for me and I couldn't care less what others thought. I don't believe a parent who simply co-sleeps is attachment parenting, there are a lot of other principles to this style which can benefit a child that are involved, but there are a lot of parents who bring their child into bed and breast feed at night to sooth them nothing else, who I believe use the label AP as a way to excuse and justify this practice. I have to deal with a child who is AP and his mother is trying hard to breast feed till he is 2 and he is 14mths now. I so desperately want to ask her why? There is absolutely no nutritional benefit to breastfeeding beyond the time that a child is eating a well balanced wholefood diet. You can get far better sources of nutrition through whole foods, even if the child has dairy issues.
@Lee-Bee soy milk is also insanely bad for people to consume let alone a child. There are numerous studies proving this and I couldn't honestly care less what the dietician said. They are bound by the government to promote the Canada food guide which is responsible for numerous health issues as a result and also its the same people who are okay telling you to consume foods that are heavily processed and full of "non food" products as preservatives. Best to actually do your own research and seek the advice of someone who isn't ethically conflicted such as a Registered Nutritionist...still regulated but a hell of a lot more knowledgeable, on so many levels.
@Crazy Eight, this is absolutely the place for someone to post about this subject, all be it in the wrong category. The OP was commenting on the difficulties of weaning off the breast while attachment parenting. Daycare providers both have experience weaning multiple children, and as this thread proves there are a number of providers who have also chosen to AP themselves. An AP specific forum wouldn't answer her questions objectively because it is a pro-AP place, so I think having numerous perspectives on this forum site is a great place to come to. People can post whatever they want on here, that's why there is a section called "this and that". I hope the OP didn't just delete all her posts because she felt unwelcome to post this here or felt attacked. We don't have to all agree with each other on here, but when someone comes on here for advice or to vent, there's nothing worse than being told to go elsewhere.
While I agree with most things you said Bright sparks....throwing your toys out of the crib just because everyone doesn't agree with you is silly. I think most people here share general beliefs on breast feeding. When you ask for advice on a public forum you will get all sorts of opinions. Take em or leave em.
My take on being advised to try another forum is that if you only want to hear what people with exactly the same beliefs as you have to say then you need to try a more specific forum.
Lee bee.....I think your parenting style sounds like what many people do (me included) Probably not considered serious AP.
Silly maybe but a perfectly human response when possibly feeling like you are backed into a corner....people tend to have strong beliefs on AP and breastfeed, separately or together. I don't think she should have deleted her posts and wish I could refer back to her original post in response to you ww, but now I can't lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Wonderwiper
I also don't think she is a seasoned provider and is new to the forum so explains why she may have run a mile at all us strong heads who have no problem giving or taking opposite opinions. I know that I have had to take a step back from hearing/reading opinions that go against mine in the past when I have asked for advice. it's a lesson to be learnt by many to take advice even in the harshest forms when we don't hear what we want to. I wouldn't have deleted my posts though. Time and reflection usually helps me to realize that what the other person was saying was actually true or gives me the reaffirmation that actually what I am doing is right. Written opinions are frequently misinterpreted too, especially on a forum full of strong and independent business women.
I also follow AP philosophy with my own, the only part I do not agree with is with the not letting them cio, unless they are newborns and cannot communicate their needs any other way. I opened my daycare 3 years before I had my son and I took about 7 months off mat leave after he was born. During that time I prepare him to self soothe when going to sleep. I follow a combination of what is recommended in ‘The No-Cry Sleep Solution’ by Elizabeth Pantley and William Sears and I also let him cio. He never slept on a crib, by 4 months we moved his twin mattress that was right besides our bed to his own room and I watched him through a video monitor all night.
Even I follow some of AP style I prefer to take on families that follow this philosophy since many don't prepare them for daycare and I think that it's just cruel for their child and hard on the provider, others. There are also others that let their kids do whatever they want and do not set any boundaries and then call that AP, instead of lack of parenting skills.
Omg she actually deleted all her posts ?????? Whatever !!!! Seriously
I was not telling her not to post here, I was simply stating that many of us will not have experience with AP, as it is not a style that is usually employed by a lot of providers or parents of daycare children, simply because of the constraints of group care. How can I possibly offer constructive advice on transitioning a child raised this way when my own were not, nor were my daycare children? I meant that she might find more help and useful ideas from people who have gone through this personally, instead of the majority of providers who have probably not raised their children like this.
It was not meant as "you're not welcome here," it was meant as "I'm not sure how much we'll be able to help in giving you useful tips/suggestions/ideas."
I wish I had been able to read the OP's posts, but by the time I came to this thread, the posts were deleted. However, I just wanted to send her a bit of support. I see nothing at all wrong with extended breatfeeding or co-sleeping and I don't have a problem with taking daycare kids whose parents do these things. I co-slept with all of my kids and breastfed all three. My youngest I breastfed until the age of 2 while running my daycare. She also co-slept part of the night with us while I was running a daycare. I am a somewhat moderate AP parent as I do not have a problem with some amount of cyring it out and I always had my kids start the night in their cribs and for naps in their cribs. This is just what worked for me. I have no judegment on what works for others. The only issue I do have with AP in regards to daycare children is when parents do nothing at all to prepare the child for daycare. If a child has always been nursed to sleep and has slept with or on the parent for naps and never in a crib or playpen...then it is harsh and cruel to suddenly drop that child off at daycare and expect him/her to be able to do these things. I always advise AP parents to gradually work on having the child go down awake in a crib or playpen at least for naps so that it will not be a shock when they start daycare.
I do disagree with those who say that breastmilk has no nutritional benefits once the child is eating regular foods. It is high in nutrition and carries important antibodies, etc. which help the child's immune system.For me there is no issue with breatfeeding as long as both child and mother are happy to do so. But if you are feeling read to stop, then that is what you should do.
I would suggest a gradual weaning, cutting out one feeding per week until they are all gone. With my daughter, I started saying that the "nook" as she called milk, was "broken" and she would give up...she understood.
I nursed my ydd till she was 3 yrs old and we co slept forever (well it seemed like it) if you have any questions you can contact me.
I deleted all my posts because I was being misjudged and attachment parenting was being grossly mislabelled. Most of the people posting on here have NO idea what AP is and they are pre-judging it without really researching it and coming to the assumption that it is PERMISSIVE PARENTING, which it is not. I used to look after a child of permissive parents and she could not be more different from my daughter.
From the time my day care starts to when the last child goes home, my daughter gets NO special treatment. I tell them all I love them. I hug, cuddle and kiss all of them. I used what I have learned from AP gurus like Dr. Sears and provide an AMAZING quality of care for these wonderful little human beings.
Does that mean that they run around and do whatever they want? Certainly not. I have a structured day care schedule with lots of learning involved. I practice gentle discipline, but I do not yell at, shame or isolate children. What I do (AND IT WORKS) is based on AP, and as a result I have a day care full of happy, well adjusted, independent children.
My own daughter, from her two confident, AP parents, is probably the most confident little girl you would hope to meet. She is polite, friendly, and takes LOTS of risks (more than her Daddy and I would like to see sometimes, lol!). We AP because we believe that this is the way humans were meant to parent. We co-sleep because we read study after study about how humans are MEANT to sleep together, and about the increased bonding we get from it. I breastfed this long because, regardless of the fact that some say there is no value in breastfeeding a toddler, countless studies show that that is in fact not true. I cloth diapered because I care about this world that my daughter will inherit from me (and to save money). I decided to put my career on hold and stay home with my daughter and run a day care not only because I love children and have a background in child care, but because I wanted to be there for her in her early years.
I will continue to AP, despite what the naysayers say, because I know this to be the absolute best for my child. If you don't AP, that's fine. But if you don't have anything constructive or nice to say, don't say anything at all. I came looking for support and to hear about how other women -- AP and not AP -- have dealt with weaning. What I did not come for was to be told that I am basically raising a wimpy little wallflower who will have no independence of her own.
I do like this forum, but from now on I will only be posting day care related things here. Thankfully, I know a bunch of well-educated, kind moms, who, while they don't all AP, know how to treat people with respect.
Sevenwatersdaughter:
Just keep in mind that many of us caregivers have had "AP" families bring us their children with no preparation for the daycare world. It is frustrating and very hard for caregivers to help transition a child that has never slept alone, doesn't have any self soothing skills etc.
As caregivers our views are skewed to what we know. There is a great deal of research that fully support AP parenting and shows that these children grow up to be fully confident children/teens/adults. But, it is hard on the child and hard on the caregiver to go from strong AP to group care without allowing time to prepare the child.
You nailed it on the head with the difference between AP and permissive parenting. As another poster commented many families call themselves AP due to their permissiveness. It does NOT imply all AP families are permissive. I have 2 in my daycare...they are great families but cannot allow their child to fuss at all without immediately stopping what they are doing and letting the child have their way. Many caregivers on here have experienced the same. As you mentioned this is not true AP. It does no one any good. As I mentioned in my previous post AP gets a bad rap...but it is due to the "permissive" parenting that gets grouped in with AP.
I don't doubt your daughter is a confident awesome child and I truly don't doubt that it is largely your parenting style that made her that way. My daughter is much the same...aside from her current insane separation anxiety period she is a very laid back, chill, brave and confident 13month old. We do our best to prepare her for the world. We baby wear, extend breastfeed, bedshare etc according to what fits our family.
If you are unhappy with your current breastfeeding relationship then adapt it to fit your needs. Feel free to keep asking such questions here...many will give their judgement and their beliefs based on their experiences with their children and their work with families. Ignore what you don't agree with and take from what you do agree with. There are many strong personalities on here...but from my short time here I don't think they try to attack or be mean they just voice what they feel based on their experiences.
I'm not sure what the original question was as it was deleted but understand the jest of it . We ap the last dd , and I nursed until 2 ( she weaned herself ) . We co slept and she's 5.5 and 5 out of 7 ends up with us . Having raised 4 others into adulthood I know from experience this doesn't last forever and I am enjoying each stage if raising my last child .
I truly do not think our dd ever slept or sat by herself ! There was always someone wanting to cuddle or wear her !! My dd nursed on demand and we did nothing else besides her care until she was 5 . I started my dayhome then . She is smart and gentle and kind and not at all a spoiled brat ( as we were advised she would be !! Lol ) she truly believes she "works " in my dayhome !!
I breast fed my other children on a schedule , they slept in their own cribs , I did do cloth diapers with them ( figured I deserved disposable with the last one ) I made all of their baby food myself and I wish I would have ap them as well !! But at the time that is what I was taught ! They all turned out great !! Homeschooled them to graduation , and they all but one are living on their own , and successful in their careers ! There are so many types of parenting styles !!
Hope I was helpful !!