Forced Potty Training Too Soon

[ebhappydc]

A mom of a 22.5 mth DCB told me today she will be keeping her son home for a week for potty training soon.

Although I really appreciate her dedication and commitment to get it done, this little guy is quite delayed in many ways. He didn't start walking until 2 months ago, only has about 2 or 3 words, that are barely audible (mama is clear), babbles, still has a slight soft spot and smaller than normal head circumference, and is wearing clothes for 12 months. Mom says his brother who is a few years older trained fully by 18 months. Well, Brother who is huge is on the opposite end of growth chart

She is a reasonable woman so far for everything but she seems adamant that he will be trained no matter what. My question is can a child that is delayed in many ways pick up using the potty? He's not even that steady on his feet, and quite uncoordinated. To me he has more the mannerisms of a newly walking 14 or 15 month, keeping his arms up to help balance while he walks. He is a nice kid and understands some of what I ask him (go get your hat etc) but he can't express yet. He is quite delayed compared to the other kids similar age in my group.

I don't know how to react to her (You Go Girl!..... or "Really?"). Has anyone been surprised by a physically and emotionally late bloomer being able to train earlier than you thought ? I'm hopeful, for the kid's sake. Nothing worse than brother being better at something like that! Tx!

[Peacefulbird]

Wow! Absolutely amazing. Perhaps the mom has a secret or magic for doing so.

Anyway, don't be surprised but she might do so. I saw a provider advertisement offering absolutely everything including "potty trained by two yo".

I potty trained a 16 months old no language yet but smart to tell you by pointing at his diaper. But it was just pure peer pressure. All my group gets trained sooner (they start at 18 months and most done by 22 to 24 months). I noticed it doesn't matter much about lanGuage skills. Many just follow older peers and I follow that lead. They show interest and I built upon that by creating a routine where everyone can participate.

I have never advertised or tried to sell my services as early potty trainer. (I do not like to built up high expectations and feel pressured) children need love and patience. If they get trained sooner great if they don't it is also ok.

Once we start here, parents usually do not know, until they notice they're fully trained (when the child surprisingly tells them that, they need to go to the potty).

Perhaps a week of persistence and routine works. I trained two boys like that one week just focused on their needs and it worked.

Please, let us know the outcome. I have experienced that late bloomers can give us big surprises;0) they have some strengths in some areas, even if phisically they don't seem capable.

And also note, if it is not initiated by the child's own interest then it would be called "forced", never force a child to something that doesn't want to do the outcome could be catastrophic (fear to try again due to unpleasant experience,
Or trauma which can delay the process even longer or loss of motivation )

[ebhappydc]

Very helpful Peace. And of course parents are also motivated to get rid of the diaper cost. I would be amazed if he managed. But then, I've had really smart big kids struggle with potty, so who knows what the magic ingredient is! Will keep posted...

[Suzie_Homemaker]

I think this Mom's version of toilet training might not match yours. If the child is as delayed as said, the with poorly co-coordinated movements, then there's no way that child will be able to recognized the need to go, walk to the washroom, undress their lower half, toilet, wipe, redress their lower half and come back to the play area. To me, toilet training isn't an adult doing all the steps to put them on the potty and all the steps once they stand up - it's independent toileting. I'm willing to bet if you chat with Mom, that's not her definition of toilet training or her goal in this week off. I bet if she feels she needs a week off to get her child to an acceptable level, and you ask her to outline what stage she's expecting to be at at the end of her week, she should be able to realized that's not plausible in a group care environment.

[Busy ECE mommy]

I agree with Suzie. I guess it depends what your guidelines are for your potty training policy.
It sounds like there are delays here. My potty training policy is outlined in my handbook.
The child needs to be able to tell me they need to go or to specify that they have already gone.
They also need to be able to pull their own clothing up and down, and get on and off the toilet, and wipe by themselves. They then need to wash their own hands etc. I do not run kids to the bathroom every 30 minutes unless they tell me they need to go. We have 5 scheduled diapering/bathroom routines in the day, and then they will go if they tell me they need to go in between those times.
Just be aware of what your policies are, and be clear with her.
I’ve had several kids who were not ready until closer to the 3rd birthday due to balance/ coordination issues or poor motor skills or the inability to verbalize they needed to go or had gone.

[Peacefulbird]

Very helpful Peace. And of course parents are also motivated to get rid of the diaper cost. I would be amazed if he managed. But then, I've had really smart big kids struggle with potty, so who knows what the magic ingredient is! Will keep posted...

Thanks***Reply***Rep ly With Quote*******

Thank you, ebhappydc.

Over the years, I have learned not to understimate children. I have learned that supporting them with love and giving them time and patience has helped them to grow confident and independent. As I mentioned before, I just follow their lead i was surprised to realize that even boys can be trained earlier. Perhaps I'm wrong (forgive me for that), but the term "training" to me means ...the action of teaching a person a particular skill or type of behavior..... (and teaching takes time, steps, practise, motivation etc, that's one of the reasons I do not even go through this subject with parents during my interviews, they just get the surprise)

I do not have a policy for potty training, it all gets initiated here as a normal group routine (as when we teach them to use the spoon and eat or how to sit or how to clean afterthemselves, etc) obviously it is paramount to keep the daycare sanitized due to a large group in care. I mostly work in motivation and support with little steps to succeed and many opportunities to practise.

I haven't experienced parents pressure yet. But they continously keep telling me on how their little ones amaze others when they tell they need to go to the bathroom.

The only key is to follow routine. Where ever we go , outings etc. We follow our routine. I carry my potty everywhere;0) We use public bathrooms too(if we have to). This is just to teach them that all this process is normal nothing to be anxious or afraid of. They feel proud when we allow them to be part of the " grown ups" world.

[ebhappydc]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts about this.

I don't have a potty outline; in all my years, it has always progressed naturally when the time has felt right with the child/parents, without issues. This did take me aback, so today I asked the mom how she expects the child to tell me he needs to go, plus I asked how she is training him verbally, so I can mirror. She agrees it will be a challenge given his lack of expression and that she'll let me know how it goes at home. I reminded her it's group care, and she understands; said he will be in pull-ups at daycare for however long I wish. Not sure how confusing that will be between home and here, but I can't change what she does at home - he is already in underwear on weekends, training..... i didn't ask how much laundry she has been doing....

I do assist all my daycare children in the bathroom with wiping for thoroughness, and pulling up pants (who invented Skinny jeans for toddlers?). Luckily the bthrm is adjacent to daycare rooms and i can see all rooms easily.

I'm going to encourage him as much as possible to keep the ball rolling if she makes progress at home. I have a really great group of kids, but this guy has to put up with being pushed to the back of the line so to speak (survival of the fittest right?) in many cases. I've seen he does have patience and determination so who knows how his thoughts are with potty training. All i need is a great big point to his diaper and grunt and i'll stick him on the potty. If he has success, great, i'll build on that and I can wait for his coordination to catch up. If he doesn't after a few days, then it will become obvious it's too early.

Will keep you posted... not sure if it's next week or week after she's got him booked for potty boot camp....

[ebhappydc]

Child was picked up today and mom said "see ya after next weekend!" I told her if it turns out he's not ready to just bring him back any time during the week.... response "oh no. I'm not a quitter; this is totally happening."
And there you have it.
luckily she's a positive mom. I guess we'll see!

[ebhappydc]

Update: Little guy came back this past Tuesday (in pullups at daycare) and I’m happy to say he does have control over his pees on the potty during our washroom breaks, and stays dry until our break times. However, he does not tell me he has to go and I do have to help with his pants more than I normally would (the older kids just need help pulling everything straight so the pants aren’t off to the side) . I need to lift him to reach the faucet – there isn’t a footstool high enough…. He is wearing comfy pants now, so it’s all quick and he is trying so hard to help with his clothes. … When he’s done, he gives me a high-5 and looks very happy. No, the bms aren’t going in potty at daycare or at home. He doesn’t get that at all yet.

I’m going to continue to build with this child, however, to protect myself in future, I will be adding to my policies my definition of potty trained - i.e. child being able to tell me when they have to go and being able to handle their clothing. I got lucky in this case that the boy is easy-going, very light, and quite willing, and the parents haven't pressured me on how to be at daycare with him. I’ve also noticed the other kids in my daycare are pleasantly surprised that he is able to do what he can now.
Although his parents are positive people, I did sense a bit of disappointment from them in discussing his progress the day he came back ….I don’t understand how they could expect him to somehow understand the whole process in a week. I told them it’s quite normal for children to not be fully trained by age 2 and there’s a whole range of ages when it happens…. They don’t acknowledge that fact when I say it. I feel like there’s an elephant in the room when we talk about this little guy and I want to say ‘have you noticed that he is quite delayed in development?’ but I don’t…. They must know it, but perhaps are in a bit of denial. I hear mom telling him ‘you’re a big boy now’…. I imagine when at public play centers, the usual questions come up - how old is your baby, when did they start walking... blah blah… all the comparison questions. So at least now they can say he goes on the potty already.

[Peacefulbird]

Thank you so much ebhappydc,

It is amazing what he have achieved in just a week! You just made my day;0) in my experience I would say in another week or two he will be fully trained.

I usually ask parent to buy and bring easy pants (old pijamas bottoms work great). I do observations and check what the child needs in order to succeed at this tast I. E. A potty of his size, no long t-shirts etc.

As a mother I can tell you, my feelings go to them, imagine must be hard to accept that your must loved treasure will have a challenging life. And I'm sure they will want to push him up as much as they can so, he can gain independence and survive in this world. I admire his mother for loving him and making sure he doesn't get treated in any different way. A child that is looked for his virtues rather for what he can't do ;0)

Ebhappydc, I used to look the process of training the same way before, time, pulling pants up, washing hands etc. When I took to analize it actually worked in my favor.

1. Diapering, I need to wash my hands before, set the change table, lift the baby up to change, then again lift to put him on the floor, bag and dispose the diaper, wash his hands, disinfect the change table wash my hands.

2. Almost trained or in process, pants down they sit on their own, wipe pants up and wash hands. (I do wash hands at their level, no lifting involved)

About telling you or verbalizing. The expressive language develops slowly compared with the receptive language, he can clearly understand but not express yet. I have my little ones potty trained before their language, we just follow routines at first and then suddenly they find the way to let you know. If you observe their behaviour you will know.

And yes, if you want to change or clarify in your policy you should. I have friends who clearly explain that, they "do not potty train".

Anyway, thank you so much again. And good luck with that little angel:0)