Lord give me the strength to terminate

[Momof4]

What to you do to discipline him? Have you tried to discipline him in the past? Since he's been at your house for over a year and is 3 years old now he knows he can get away with these things. It's never too late though.

If I were you I would sit down with the parents as a group and discuss behaviour and consequences at home and at daycare and make sure that you are all on the same page. Come up with a plan to improve this little boy's behaviour and consistency is the magic word.

Children learn from day 1 in my daycare exactly what is acceptable or not and I use a time out system. I have really well behaved children here who know exactly what I expect but I'm happy and they are happy and we always have fun together. Isn't that what you are looking for? Stressfree happy days?

[Spixie33]

What to you do to discipline him? Have you tried to discipline him in the past? Since he's been at your house for over a year and is 3 years old now he knows he can get away with these things. It's never too late though.

If I were you I would sit down with the parents as a group and discuss behaviour and consequences at home and at daycare and make sure that you are all on the same page. Come up with a plan to improve this little boy's behaviour and consistency is the magic word.

Children learn from day 1 in my daycare exactly what is acceptable or not and I use a time out system. I have really well behaved children here who know exactly what I expect but I'm happy and they are happy and we always have fun together. Isn't that what you are looking for? Stressfree happy days?

Like I mentioned.....I do timeouts. I base timeouts on the child's age. So he gets 3 minutes. During time out he cries to the point where he can barely breathe and then after when I talk to him about the time out he can barely get a word out because he is distraught over the consequence. It does not matter how many time outs he has because he goes back to not listening and I do not have only him to worry about. I have other little ones who need me too and he already monopolizes large chunks of my time.

all the other kids get the rules and follow them and they respond well to time outs. But not every kid is the same. The other kids know the rules so well that they will remind this boy of the rules when they see him breaking them.

Obviously there is discipline as well as fun in our days. I have also tried giving him extra time, lots of cuddles and on the other hand I have been firm, stern, and cross with him. Neither method seems to work. Even the parents say they have a tough time with him and that they are embarrassed at times and they are having issues when they are one on one with him....I don't have the luxury of spending my whole day 1 on 1 with him.

One of the other things that really bothers me is that when we go to early Years or outings he is so over the top excited that he climbs tables, knocks over other kids etc to the point where the ECEs in the classroom are looking stunned. They have also tried to talk to him and discipline him when he comes and even to them it is in one ear and out the other. It has gone to the point where I cannot take the group to Playgroup if he is here and it is a treat that the rest of the kids get to go when he is sick or absent.

anyways....personall y I feel like he is holding us back at times and is just a lot to manage and I do not have the ability to make up for the lack of firmness at home while he is here only a few days a week

Believe me I don't WANT to terminate and have agonized over it but there are days where I am fighting back tears by nap time (like today) because I just feel like I have no where left to turn with this child. He can be very sweet when I am one on one for a puzzle or book or game with him but overall he can be a huge disruption to things

[Crayola kiddies]

Well I guess you know the answer.... It's not healthy for you to have him around and he's a bad influence on the other kids .... Maybe he has ADHD or something similiar but term them and start enjoying your days again ..... They may be nice parents but it's their child so let them deal with it. Suggest he might do better in a center where there is more then one adult. But you just have to do it. When they pick him up next tell them you have decided that current arrangement is not working and you feel he needs more one on one care then you can provide him and tell them when the last day of care will be and have a letter ready saying the same thing. Just do it quick like a band aid !

[Other Mummy]

Ohhh boy...I feel your pain Spixie. I do. I was that person who HATES confrontation of any kind. It actually makes me feel ill. However, I quickly learned, that in this business no one is looking out for you but YOU. GREAT advice on this forum. You know what you HAVE to do. For your buisness. For the other DCKs, for your own family and most of all for YOU!! Everyone on this board is correct. You will feel TONS better when you wave to him bye bye for the last time. Promise. The next day will feel ..different. Colors brighter! LOL. Then you can focus your attention on the way you want to do things in your daycare without being held back.

Just ask yourself one question. What's more important to you? Feeling that 'icky' feeling of confrontation for a bit for the better of your daycare program and sanity in the end? or dragging it out for weeks and feeling worse by sitting on the fence?

[Inspired by Reggio]

I agree that consistency is key .... but IMO termination around behaviour should not 'catch a parent off guard' because as professionals we should have been discussing the issues with the clients all along ... they should KNOW that 'Bobby' is a bundle of energy, a challenge and not coping in care because he is disruptive and makes inappropriate choices and they should know what 'Bobby's' goals in the program are and if X does not happen than termination is possible? IME when this occurs clients either pull themselves because they do not 'value' the goals you have for 'Bobby' and do not think you are a match OR they work their ARSE off to make sure that 'Bobby' behaves in care because they want him to thrive and the behaviour dispates.

Are the parents AWARE of the rules of expectations in your program so that they can be helping to ensure that their child has the skills to thrive? In my program we have a 'code of conduct' for behaviour and what is expected of the children to respect each other, themselves and the environment and so forth - jumping on the furniture or driving your scratchy cars on painted walls is NOT respectful as it could damage them - that would be a clear violation of the code of conduct and parents would be made aware 'bobby had a hard time remembering to respect the couch today and as a result Bobby is not allowed to use the couch tomorrow to reinforce that you sit gently on the couch and respect it or it wont be there to use!

What sort of discussions have you had with them about the issues - have they been working WITH you? Cause if a child is allowed to jump on the couch at home, drive his cars on the paint and behave in a 'rambunctious' manner cause they have a 'boys will be boys' philosophy and so forth than it is very hard for some personalities to wobble back and forth between it being OK in one environment and not in another Sometimes we have very different values about what is acceptable behaviour in childhood and if we do not discuss this with each other conflict is sure to arise.

Ultimately you have to do what is best for your program and for your overall group ... however IMO termination should be a last resort and only if the clients are not working with you to help their child survive and it should not 'catch anyone off guard'...if they have been 'aware' of the issues and sloughing them off or not working with you than for sure I would be done at this point to - but would have no stress approaching the client cause well they would on some level be 'expecting' that shoe to fall so to speak?

I always try to approach from 'our' perspective when dealing with clients - how would WE feel if everyday at pick up a client came in and appeared happy, said thank you for the great day and left us feeling things were 'good' ... all the while something was 'bugging them' and growing resentment and making every little thing seem like a 'big thing' and rather than approach us and have an open and honest conversation that just came in out of the blue and said 'we do not feel our child is thriving in your program and therefore we are terminating our contract' .... we would be hurt and devastated and well pissed that we were not made aware that they were unhappy or given a chance to discuss and make improvements and well blindsided so to speak

Sending vibes that whatever route you choose it goes smoothly for everyone - after all if we are all wanting children to thrive and be strong capable citizens in our society we should 'accept' that we need to do what we need to do to help meet that goal - and sometimes kids truly need more than our environment can give them and termination is the only option that is best for all!

[Spixie33]

Reggie....and others.....

The parents do know he misbehaves here. I don't tell them we had a happy, perfect day....although some days are good and better than others.

I think you are getting confused by what I wrote. I said the parents would be shocked NOT because they think there aren't problems but because they think it is fine and I am okay putting up with it. I think the parents feel that our relationship is friendly to the point where I would never terminate them no matter what. That is what I meant by them being shocked.

I have told them on many pick ups that we have had a rough day and told them what happened or they witness him trying to drive cars along the paint in the front hallway. They have witnessed him wrecking one of our christmas decorations but they just said "oh sorry". I think...personally.. .that some parents who have a child like this think it is just normal kid behaviour. He is their first and he was a 'miracle' child for them after they tried hard to conceive so they have let him get away with things and they don't know that other kids don't behave like this.

The parents are great in terms of adults. very sociable, friendly, positive people who are always nice to the other kids and families, follow my contract etc. But they are not the most disciplined people in terms of being strict with their child or drawing a line when he misbehaves.

This is a PT child so he is not with me the majority of time which makes it even harder.

Thanks to those who gave helpful advice but really my main concern was 1-finding the nerve to tell these parents who I am on great terms with and 2-how to handle the issue with the other daycare parents when they notice that we have lost someone from our tight-knit group

I have exhausted all the communication, give daily communication sheets on our day, talk to the parents at pickup and have them tell me about issues they have with him as well so communication is not the issue. Saying that communication is lacking or a partnership with the parents is honestly not very helpful, sorry. I can't even fathom how we could communicate better because we really do talk a lot at drop off/pick up, on the sheets, via email, etc. It does not change anything.

Also...for those who said to do more punishment...I do have consequences but again it leads to a bad bunch of drops offs for all involved because every time he has a bad day full of reprimands and corrections he will not want to come the next time and cling to his parents for dear life because he is scared that he will once again get in trouble or time out etc. Having drop offs where the parents have to spend 20 minutes convincing him to stay and untangling their bodies from his clinging death grip are also not pleasant and waste my time because I have other kids to worry about and other activities to do

And it is not that I want to terminate based on the last week or the last month -- it has been many many many months where I keep telling myself it is just a stage and try different techniques but nothing seems to improve even as he gets older.

[sunnydays]

I had a child like this who I had to terminate. All the other kids follow my rules and although they act out here and there, they are basically well-behaved and happy. This one child who was not even 2 yet, was taking all of my time and energy and near the end was spending more time in time-out than not because every time I took her out she would hit, kick, pull hari, scream at the other kids. And I so feel your pain about outings...I also got to the point of avoiding outings with this child as she would cry and cling to me the entire time and draw crowds of people wondering what was wrong with the poor little thing (in other words, what was I doing to her?). I kept her 9 months because I loved her parents...but then things started to go downhill with the parents too as they grew tired of hearing about her daily behavioural issues and got frustrated. After I terminated her, my life was so peaceful and continues to be...I even have one more child than before, but my days are calm, orderly, and happy now. Do what you have to do for your own sanity...you won't regret it!

[sunnydays]

I just read your last post and wanted to add that the parents in my case were quite shocked, but once I got it over with and moved on, I felt so much better! It helped that the parents and I had a bit of a problem during the last week...that made it ever so much easier...otherwise I would have been in exactly the same position as you, trying to find some way to say it. Also, I had to deal with telling other parents. I left all the details out and just said something vague about some behavioural issues as the cause of the termination. I didn't think it would be professional or fair to go into any detail. In fact, you could just say that you didn't feel he was the best fit for the group anymore and leave it at that. I think you just need to screw up your courage (preferably on a Friday so you don`t have to see them the next day) and tell them that teh continual behviour problems are draining you and that although you think their child is a sweet child, you just don`t feel you are able to meet his needs within the group anymore. You can give them some notice to soften the blow (I did not give notice as teh relationshop with the parents had deteriorated and I didn`t want to drag it out). Be strong, get it over with and you will feel so much lighter!

[gcj]

Reggie....and others.....

The parents do know he misbehaves here. I don't tell them we had a happy, perfect day....although some days are good and better than others.

I think you are getting confused by what I wrote. I said the parents would be shocked NOT because they think there aren't problems but because they think it is fine and I am okay putting up with it. I think the parents feel that our relationship is friendly to the point where I would never terminate them no matter what. That is what I meant by them being shocked.

I have told them on many pick ups that we have had a rough day and told them what happened or they witness him trying to drive cars along the paint in the front hallway. They have witnessed him wrecking one of our christmas decorations but they just said "oh sorry". I think...personally.. .that some parents who have a child like this think it is just normal kid behaviour. He is their first and he was a 'miracle' child for them after they tried hard to conceive so they have let him get away with things and they don't know that other kids don't behave like this.

The parents are great in terms of adults. very sociable, friendly, positive people who are always nice to the other kids and families, follow my contract etc. But they are not the most disciplined people in terms of being strict with their child or drawing a line when he misbehaves.

This is a PT child so he is not with me the majority of time which makes it even harder.

Thanks to those who gave helpful advice but really my main concern was 1-finding the nerve to tell these parents who I am on great terms with and 2-how to handle the issue with the other daycare parents when they notice that we have lost someone from our tight-knit group

I have exhausted all the communication, give daily communication sheets on our day, talk to the parents at pickup and have them tell me about issues they have with him as well so communication is not the issue. Saying that communication is lacking or a partnership with the parents is honestly not very helpful, sorry. I can't even fathom how we could communicate better because we really do talk a lot at drop off/pick up, on the sheets, via email, etc. It does not change anything.

Also...for those who said to do more punishment...I do have consequences but again it leads to a bad bunch of drops offs for all involved because every time he has a bad day full of reprimands and corrections he will not want to come the next time and cling to his parents for dear life because he is scared that he will once again get in trouble or time out etc. Having drop offs where the parents have to spend 20 minutes convincing him to stay and untangling their bodies from his clinging death grip are also not pleasant and waste my time because I have other kids to worry about and other activities to do

And it is not that I want to terminate based on the last week or the last month -- it has been many many many months where I keep telling myself it is just a stage and try different techniques but nothing seems to improve even as he gets older.

So, Spixie, you know what you WANT to do and what you NEED to do. Just do it. It's like ripping off a BandAid. You're convincing everyone of why you should. So......why aren't you?
As for the other parents. You don't owe them anything more than "it wasn't working out" or "it's in the best interest of the others.." That's the least of your concerns.
So, I really hope you end this. For you, for your family, for the other dcks and even for the family of this boy!
I say DO IT!

[Spixie33]

I think I am just getting frustrated with myself and the situation. I feel like I will never do it and am just stuck

At times I almost over complain to the parents thinking I am giving them a hint and then think that they will terminate me or sabotage myself in some way so I can have them do the termination.

Then the mom comes today and is so nice and cheerful and I can just feel my heart sink because I know it is not happening any time soon. Sigh