Who would Terminate if this didn't improve?

[Inspired by Reggio]

Respectfull discussion is healthy!.

Could not agree more ... I love me good debate on philosophical practices!

I respect that it is very hard to find that balance between supporting positive social emotional development in children - we want to respect and accept their feelings cause they are entitled to have them and we do not want to teach children to 'bury' those like many of us were taught back in the day with messages like 'boys dont cry be a man' and so forth.

We also want to do that while supporting the development of socially acceptable conflict resolution skills and resilience in children ... that message that oh yes it is ok to cry when hurt / sad come here and let me give you a snuggle verses it is NOT ok to throw a tantrum because you did not get your own way or had to wait a moment for your needs to be met - I know your frustrated but lets use your WORDS to solve that problem - when your body is calm down and ready to TALK I can help you.

I have a two year old who is in that 'crying' over everything stage and whenever he starts I just say "Stop! I can see your getting frustrated - take a big deep breath and try again cause I know you can do it - and crying will not ...." get your shoe on/off, will not get that puzzle piece into the puzzle or whatever is causing the start of the tantrum behaviour ... it is working wonders here and if mom and dad could get on the same page it would work at home too - however they still buy into it at pick up and 'bribe' him to stop and well hey if a tantrum will get you a Timmies donut eventually or a trip to the store for a new dinky car why wouldn't you throw one

[Momof4]

Just out of curiosity, what could the parents do to help if her behavior was not like this at home?
Thanks in advance!

In my experience, the children are the same at home and daycare or even better behaved at daycare. Why? Because they cannot manipulate us the way they can wrap their parents around their cute little fingers.

We expect and demand good behaviour from all the children at the same time because if we don't it would be chaos. And we've all experienced chaos at one time or another while transitioning or going through a particularly difficult phase with a little one.

So when I see a behavioural issue happening I ask the parents if they are seeing the same thing at home. Usually they say, oh yeah, he/she has been doing that lately! Then I ask them how they are handling it at home. Usually they haven't been doing anything because they are all first time parents and still learning and need a tiny bit of guidance from someone with a whole lot more experience - me! Then I tell them how I am handling the issue at daycare and stress that it is not their parenting, but something that the child is just trying out as they grow and learn and stress even more that we must take charge and help the child learn good behaviour.

[playfelt]

I have a three year old crier that comes two days a week. She was full time last year - dad's a teacher and mom started mat leave in the spring but child finished out the school year. In theory she was to come part time in the summer but that only ended up being a few days here and there - mostly days baby had a doctor's check up or they wanted to get something done - mom found it very difficult to handle both kids so if dad was going somewhere child came to me while I handled all my daycare kids. Then late Sept I got a call from them asking if I could take her a couple days a week just to get her back into routine of the kids - she expected mom to be her playmate and mom was tired of obliging. Child cries if the tv is turned off, cries if it is not on when she gets here, cries if she needs to pee - glad to hear this isn't unique cause this is the first one for me, cries if I say it is time to do anything, cries if she wants something which means she gets ignored, and in between all that just pouts and blubbers. But she is that way at home too if she isnt' getting her own way which is why the parents sent her back to me. At first they never admitted this but over the next few months of me mentioning how out of control the crying had been they were honest. She is only two days a week and I am trying to hang in there till June and dad is done school again. But I am going to suggest that come Sept they put her into preschool because she will start school the following year and is not ready emotionally/socially at all. Summer I haven't decided yet - depends on when my current leaving for school leave and new babies start - they can cry but she is not coming here every day just to blubber no thanks.

[Inspired by Reggio]

I agree - I am a pretty patient and tolerant person and willing to work with children through the 'normal stages of development' to help them learn the skills and strategies needed to thrive ... but a child who has NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR because it is being tolerated in some aspect of her life - well if we are not all on the same page it will NEVER get better and I know that from experience sadly!

I have made this mistake myself with a family who I preserved through because I thought it was the professional thing to do - the kid is not a danger to anyone else just a DRAMA QUEEN with some seriously negative attitude and control issues - and while I do bring up the issues with the child's behaviour when it arises, and gently educate that the 'cause' might be XYZ and we need to shore up that consistency and so forth the parents just do not SEE that it is their lack of consistency, not saying what they mean - aka empty threats to try to get her to behave and than rewarding her negative behaviour by caving and giving her what she wanted in the first that is actually resulting in this child's challenging behaviour - and while 4 days out of 5 the child will 'manage' here fine outside of drop of and pick up when I have to listen to the mother parent the challenge is that when she is not managing it is HELL cause her tantrums are extreme and well she is turning SIX shortly so bigger and stronger and I wish in hindsight I had terminated a long time ago but kept falling for that 'provider guilt' of while at least in program she is getting some consistency and learning some skills and strategies to be a 'positive person' cause I know that no other program would take her - however she is almost ready to naturally graduate out of my program and it just seems 'easier' to count down those days than to go through the conflict of terminating cause I know from the perspective of the parent it will be a 'but she has been like this for years why is it suddenly a problem NOW' kinda argument

If you are seeing issues at the START of a daycare relationship I would be nipping them in the bud with a' time line' for improvement otherwise ya before you know it 5 years have past and you have 20 new grey hairs

[Cadillac]

Playfelt - OMG! You try and try and try and then you have a good day and you praise more than you've praised any child in your life.

I love these parents but they are definitely the 'hippie' sort. They've been honest that mom gives in and dad is the disciplinarian (Dad's discipline leaves something to be desired) The other day dad told me that they don't take anything of her 's***' anymore and haven't for a while. but if they didn't . . . . things would be different by now.

I think I would have an easier time letting go if it didn't mean that my other 3 year old girl was left without a playmate. It SOOOOO hard to find kids that age and I'm so big on everyone having a friend their own age. Poor thing would be left with nothing but 2 year olds to play with. NO FUN!

[playfelt]

What I do with my crier is call her bluff so to speak. I treat the crying the same as if she was yelling and having a tantrum because to a certain extent that is what she is doing. tears get sympathy tantrums get timeout. Well when you are three and use tears as a way to manipulate just as you would if you were having a tantrum and screaming and stamping your feet you get treated the same.

When you start to look at the crying from that perspective it makes dealing with it easier in the sense of negative consequences do work eventually. Now I am getting to the point I can just give her "that look" and she turns the tears to a pout/blubber but at least it is quieter.

We are so conditioned to respond to tears that we forget that kids use them instead of words and instead of actions when they are older because they learned in infancy/toddlerhood that the method worked. Now they are three and time to teach a new lesson - they don't work.

[Cadillac]

What I do with my crier is call her bluff so to speak. I treat the crying the same as if she was yelling and having a tantrum because to a certain extent that is what she is doing. tears get sympathy tantrums get timeout. Well when you are three and use tears as a way to manipulate just as you would if you were having a tantrum and screaming and stamping your feet you get treated the same.

When you start to look at the crying from that perspective it makes dealing with it easier in the sense of negative consequences do work eventually. Now I am getting to the point I can just give her "that look" and she turns the tears to a pout/blubber but at least it is quieter.

We are so conditioned to respond to tears that we forget that kids use them instead of words and instead of actions when they are older because they learned in infancy/toddlerhood that the method worked. Now they are three and time to teach a new lesson - they don't work.

This is what I do. She is to go and sit on the couch and have her cry and come back when she is ready. Or, if it's lunch or a letter activity she is to sit there until she does what is expected, tears or not. If I tell her to 'put the tears away as this is an expectation' I get the blubber . . . . for about 30seconds, with the redirection to the task the tears come back.

I couldn't help but laugh the other day: We were at the beach and she was directed not to throw sand as it gets into kids eyes. She got two warning s and then her time out on the bench on the boardwalk. She was quiet, no tears (I commented to my assistant that this was great, she was taking her time out without the normal wails) . . . then an old couple approaches. When trhey were ten feet away 3yo starts to WAIL!!!!!! . . . Couple goes 'awwwwwwww' I go 'NONONO she's got a time out, don't feed into HER PLEEEEEEAAAASE!" couple laughs and continues walking . . . . . 1 min later . . mother approaches . . . same thing happens. This happened at least twice more. As soon as I would tell the pedestrians what was going on the crocodile tears would immediately cease and the look I got from her OOOOOOOOH MAN!

[playfelt]

Do kids really think we are that naive?

They get so annoyed when their games don't work. And you know what, sad to say but that is what allows us as caregivers to stick it out with a child like that is to in a sense have the last laugh.

[sunnydays]

I am almost embarrassed to admit it, but my own 3 1/2 year old is a crier I do as the ladies above have mentioned and he goes to his room to cry it out on his own...in fact, sometimes he even sends himself there when he is upset. Every time something doesn't go his way or we say no to him, he cries. He is sensitive and hates it when we raise our voices at him, but the crying drives me nuts! I sure hope he grows out of it soon! I only add this because I want to add a parent's perspective and that this child's parents may be struggling with it at home too. I am consistent and I don't give into his crying, but he still does it and has numerous "cry outs" in his room per day. Sometimes I have better luck if I can stop him before he starts to cry...when I can see it coming I will remind him firmly of the consequences and sometimes he is able to gulp back the cry before it escapes. Best of luck to you with your crier

[Lou]

I unfortunately just had to terminate a crier. A freaking FIVE YEAR OLD!!! She cried every day all day (came 3 days a week), whenever she was dropped off, there was some sort of transition or meal time. All the while her twin brother would throw explosive tantrums. I gave this 1 1/2 months, and with no improvement, awkwardly had to let the family go (friends of ours, and neighbours 2 doors down). It was soooooo disruptive to the daycare day and incredibly unfair to the my other dck's. Bye bye.