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  1. #11
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    SORRY - but if a kid pees his pants and doesn't want to be changed TOO FREAKING BAD! This is a huge red flag for me. makes me wonder what other things she is not doing. She rolls her eyes at you? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Pull him! There are plenty of other daycare who would have the better patience, discipline, and knowledge of children to treat your child properly.

    It's not uncommon for 3 year old boys to be stubborn or for children to test boundaries when in a new setting

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentof1 View Post
    @ Alphaghetti So what do my husband and I say if providers ask why we are seeking new care?
    Tell them exactly what happened. Your kid isn't chuckie. he's a 3 yr old boy. You won't make him look bad. you'll make the provider look bad. people will want to help you in this sort of situation

  3. #13
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    I'll take the other side just to give you some feedback. For whatever reason and my family tease me all the time about why can't I just find some "normal" kids for care but I will accept the challenging and give them a chance.

    First the caregiver and you have to realize the child is three. By the time my gang are three I can say something and they just do it. All I have to say is lunch is almost ready and they start to clean up and come to the table etc. without me having to say anything but from the time they were one they have been part of that learning. The caregiver needs to remember that she will need to explain everythign to the child. At the same time your child may feel like he is constantly being told what to do when the caregiver is just trying to assist him to integrate. We also forget that other providers do things differently so we can't just assume that they child has done certain things a certain way before. Change isn't easy and if you are used to putting the big trucks under the shelf instead of beside the closet you can forget easily and get in trouble or at least feel that you are.

    Your child has already been labelled challenging by other providers who had the benefit of time to train him in their ways so give your next caregiver and your son time too.

    I have had an older child that would put up a physical fight to be changed, dressed for outside etc. In the old days this kind of tantrum got a spanking and child usually stopped and obeyed. Now we put them in time out. So if your child didn't want to cooperate to get his wet clothes changed then he is old enough to either do it himself or suffer the chaffing of wet clothes - do not blame the daycare provider. If your child was 18 months that is different we battle through those kinds of tantrums because we can due the size and strength of the child and change them anyway.

    I am a little surprised at the number of caregivers that are saying to remove the child. What makes you so sure the child will cooperate any better in another new situation. Time is such a great teacher and neither the new caregiver or the child have had enough to learn to trust each other. I would back off, and give the caregiver space to integrate the child. Remember you said yourself your child was not "perfect" for the other caregivers so some of this behaviour is not out of the norm for him. One of the reasons the caregiver can't give you examples is becuase it is little things like how long it takes the child to respond to a request - too busy to listen, deciding to disobey on purpose - the caregiver hasn't had time to figure that out. She can't tell you because she doesn't know either. Just think about every time your son has tested you at home and realize he is probably acting that same way but multiplied many times worse just to get his point across.

    I may be totally wrong as I don't know the caregiver or your son. Yes go with your gut but if your gut tells you that your son can be obstinate when he sets his mind to it then let the caregiver and your son have time to come to an understanding. Then if it is not an agreeable understanding move him.

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  5. #14
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    These ladies are all right ~ go with your gut and get him out of there. Do you have family that will take care of your son for a week or two while you do your interviewing?
    As for the question what to say to other providers about why your looking for new care, be honest. You have a gut feeling that things are not right. Mention him being wet at pick up and other concerns that you have. I have one family who met with me and right off the bat told me that their son was a handful ~ when I asked why the parents told me he was not listening and hitting. I told them how I would handle it and through this chat I learned and they learned how we each handle situations. As long as a provider knows that your on the same page as how to correct a behavior then you might just have a fit!
    Good luck

  6. #15
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    I agree with Playfelt on this. I think I would tell the caregiver that you want this to work and would like to help with the process, so if she could make some notes of the types of behaviours she sees in your son, that would help you both come up with a plan for how to deal with them. It is VERY hard as a parent to hear that our child is not a perfect angel, but as Playfelt said, if you see challenging behaviours at home, it is more than likely he is doing them there too. I have a 3 year old son myself and I know he can be challenging at times for me, so don't feel like you are a bad parent because your child misbehaves. If you truly feel that you cannot work with this provider then you should start looking around in the evenings, but you may end up having to address these issues with the next provider as well.

  7. #16
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    My issue isn't that he is having trouble...it's that the caregiver is rude and refuses to give feedback. Oh, and that a 3 year old was left in a pair of urine soaked pants. Um...no.

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  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by playfelt View Post

    1. By the time my gang are three I can say something and they just do it. All I have to say is lunch is almost ready and they start to clean up and come to the table etc. without me having to say anything but from the time they were one they have been part of that learning.

    The caregiver needs to remember that she will need to explain everythign to the child. At the same time your child may feel like he is constantly being told what to do when the caregiver is just trying to assist him to integrate. We also forget that other providers do things differently so we can't just assume that they child has done certain things a certain way before. Change isn't easy and if you are used to putting the big trucks under the shelf instead of beside the closet you can forget easily and get in trouble or at least feel that you are.

    Your child has already been labelled challenging by other providers who had the benefit of time to train him in their ways so give your next caregiver and your son time too.

    I have had an older child that would put up a physical fight to be changed, dressed for outside etc. In the old days this kind of tantrum got a spanking and child usually stopped and obeyed. Now we put them in time out. So if your child didn't want to cooperate to get his wet clothes changed then he is old enough to either do it himself or suffer the chaffing of wet clothes - do not blame the daycare provider. If your child was 18 months that is different we battle through those kinds of tantrums because we can due the size and strength of the child and change them anyway.

    I am a little surprised at the number of caregivers that are saying to remove the child. What makes you so sure the child will cooperate any better in another new situation. Time is such a great teacher and neither the new caregiver or the child have had enough to learn to trust each other. I would back off, and give the caregiver space to integrate the child. Remember you said yourself your child was not "perfect" for the other caregivers so some of this behaviour is not out of the norm for him. One of the reasons the caregiver can't give you examples is becuase it is little things like how long it takes the child to respond to a request - too busy to listen, deciding to disobey on purpose - the caregiver hasn't had time to figure that out. She can't tell you because she doesn't know either. Just think about every time your son has tested you at home and realize he is probably acting that same way but multiplied many times worse just to get his point across.

    him.
    I agree that the child should do what they are told at three . . . . but your also right that they have to be trained. It seems to me that this provider isn't up for that process. rolling her eyes on day three and giving no specific feedback is my concern. not changing a child when he pees his pants is another concern.

    Whether its the little things such as listening or picking up a specific toy the provider should be giving those detail. Rolling your eyes and say 'he was just challenging' is NOT an answer.

    It takes time an patience to integrate and from what this parent is telling me. This lady is, in no way, smoothing out the process.

    I speak for myself when I say that THIS is the reason I would pull him.

  10. #18
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    Well, obviously pulling him from there is the best option. As far as finding him a new place....I don't understand why you don't want him with you. You're working with kids all day, why not your own? Is it not allowed? Personally I got started in this business just to be with my kids....not to have someone else raise them. Why don't you take advantage of that?

  11. #19
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    Although I agree that the rolling of eyes was definitely rude and she should have been able to give some specific examples, I am not sure that the wet pants issue is necessarily pointing to a bad daycare provider. A child 3 years old can be very strong physcially and mentally and if he refused to change the clothes himself and refused to let her help him, the natural consequence would be to remain in the wet clothes. Should she have physically battled him to the ground and stripped his clothes off and wrestled new ones on? Then I think she would be opening herself up to abuse charges. She definitely should have (and likely did) try to get him to do it through incentives etc, but if that all failed (and I have known kids who can be very stubborn), then what?

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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaghetti View Post
    My issue isn't that he is having trouble...it's that the caregiver is rude and refuses to give feedback. Oh, and that a 3 year old was left in a pair of urine soaked pants. Um...no.
    Agreed ... a transition is to be expected for sure specially with an older child who has not had the benefit of years of your routine and expectations ... but if the provider cannot evenly CLEARLY DEFINE to the parent the issues that are causing him 'trouble' and ROLLS HER EYES WHEN ASKED TO how is the parent suppose to HELP the provider or her child to affect change and set goals ... that is just well sorry for the language but CRAPPY way to handle things?

    And sorry if this comes off judgmental but IMO if she is not able to 'define' it to the parent adequately and rolls her eyes about it how does the parent know if she is defining her expectations clearly to the CHILD and this could be the route of the kids 'behaviour' as well in which case the PARENT cannot fix that cause that is the providers issue.

    IMO the other reason for considering leaving is that the poster shared that the child needs 'routine' to thrive in potty training and other avenues and this provider is not big on offering one to me that is clearly not a MATCH and best to find a program that IS a match to your parenting philosophy and child's learning style otherwise you are going to be constantly having challenges everytime some new 'stage' is entered ... unfortunately in an ideal world parents would spend more time ensuring a match to stuff like this BEFORE signing on but in their defense sometimes providers will say ANYTHING to get a client in the door and than the parent quickly realizes that what was promised is not what is being offered and they have to pull

    My other reason for suggesting pulling is my personal passion that children should be WITH their parent whenever possible - the poster works in a field offering childcare and the perk to that should be well providing care to her OWN while he is at least young enough to be in childcare before the school boards scoop them up on us - I personally do no think the concern of 'favoritism' should be a barrier to allowing that cause I have worked with many a provider who can manage their own child and daycare children fairly ... how many of us on this board are doing it as I type
    Children construct their own intelligence. The adult must provide activities and context, but most of all must be able to listen. Children need proof that adults believe in them. Their three great desires are to be listened to, to understand, and to demonstrate that they are exactly what we expect."
    Loris Malaguzzi

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