When do you say enough is enough

[momof5]

Looking for opinions or advice. So i have this full time child, she's starting full day kindergarten in Sept. she's been with me now for the past 4 months full time, and 4 out of the 5 days she spends the entire day screaming for mom and telling me she hates me, hates the other children the toys etc..! It's now affecting the other children as they are starting to whine and cry due to her "screaming fits". I have told both parents and they have claimed to "deal" with this issue, except it's still continuing on. This past Thursday I had dealt with her screaming for 6 hours straight, I told mom at Pick up that i have had enough of this kind of nonsense. That i had another interview to possibly fill her spot as i was considering giving her notice. Dad called me, pretty much begging me not to give up and terminate, That she has been terminated from 3 other dayhomes due to this behaviour.! I agreed to take her back on Monday, as i was told they would "work" on this behaviour over the weekend. When dad dropped her off yesterday he tells me that if she throws a fit to call her grandma and she will talk to her!!! Yesterday was a good day, well today was a day from hell! she started at 7:00 thismorning, by 9 i gave in and called grandma! Ya that was a joke! This became a game. she was screaming wanting to call Grandma! This is a joke to her, because once mom comes this child looks at me and her mother and smiles! What would you do???? I'm now refusing to call Grandma, Do i just sit her out and ignore her, hoping she will stop? This all seems to be a game to her and no matter what i do she still carries on! I'm at my wits end with her screaming and telling me she hates me etc... What would you do? Financially i don't want to terminate until i actually have another child to fill the spot, but so far thats not until possibly July/August!!!

[Dayhome Mamma]

I would discipline her more. Provide her with a "spot" to scream, where I'd leave her there away from the group, and tell her firmly that screaming is not allowed at your house, and you can come out when you stop and when you're ready. Then I would go about the activities with the other kids. giving them positive attention. If she screamed louder, I would move everyone further or to another room and place her back in the "spot" and just ignore it. She'll stop eventually once everyone stops giving her any attention. Its often boring to be screaming on your own and no one there with a response to it. She's just playing you all I think. Kids are so smart.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Ummm - ya that is a tough one - not sure I would want to make that investment to FIX this kid for a few months of income since she is predetermined to be leaving in September to full day kindergarten!

However the strategy needs to STOP working for her and the consquence for doing so needs to be enough to motivate her to STOP!

In the program - you want to SCREAM you can go in a room and lie down on a bed and be by yourself so that no one else is affected by it and than while she is GONE you do something so totally AWESOME with your other group that she misses out on!

If she is 'destructive' to things while having a tantrum - I would terminate regardless cause she is not worth the risk ... however if she will lie down on a bed and just 'scream' until she realizes that 'hey I lost my audience' 'hey no one cares I am doing this it is not working' and finally the 'hey I can hear the other kids having FUN without me - I might as well STOP and go join in'...and when she DID come out whatever fun activity that enticed her out would be OVER she would have missed it that time with the message 'oh hon sorry but you missed this today NEXT TIME you need to choose to join into the program right away instead of being angry in your bed" ... and next morning I would plan something engaging out to have as she arrives to see if it 'entices' her in to program without the 'behaviour' and than you can do the positive reinforcement of 'wow it was so nice to have you join us this morning and not miss out on any of the fun' .... that has worked in the past with children in my care who throw a fit upon arrival - although I have never had one that age who goes on THAT long - it is usually just the first 15 minutes or so until they realize it is not 'working' to get them anything here!

And IMO AT HOME if she has behaved like this during the day her world as she knows it needs to fall in around her - if it was my child who had be terminated from 1 day homes due to behaviour she would have been grounded out the wazhoo at home .... only her necessities of life would be met - no 'toys', no TV or entertainment like DVD or video games, no computer and so forth, no TREATS and so forth ... she can help do chores around the house at the end of day to 'earn' money to buy back her 'extras' and in the meantime she can play with dust bunnies in her room to 'entertain' herself with because if the parent cannot WORK because this child's behaviour is so bad she needs to learn there is no MONEY do to extras with that kid, she needs the natural consequence that you behave because it is the RIGHT thing to do.

And if that did not work - my family would be going for counseling with a professional because NO CHILD should have that much power in a home to put a parents livelihood at risk at FOUR because they do not want to go to 'daycare' and are throwing a fit as a result!

[Momof4]

I implement timeouts with children who are less than 1 1/2 for doing something wrong. It's my method of letting them know that their behaviour is unacceptable. For a short time, 30 seconds to a minute they are sitting on the sideline without any toys and being separated from their friends and play. It lets them know that they have done something wrong. I am consistent and never give up. Eventually the children learn great behaviour in my daycare.

I've had screamer babies but this is why I prefer to start children as babies, because once they get over their intial screaming phases they learn my rules and what is acceptable behaviour. When you take on a 2, 3, or 4 year old they have already learned how to manipulate their parents and their daycare providers, just my opinion. If they had great parents and a great daycare provider they would still be THERE!

[Inspired by Reggio]

....If they had great parents and a great daycare provider they would still be THERE!

Sometimes there are great 2 and up age kids who can join your program whose previous arrangements just fell through ... I have never had an issue integrating an older child ... generally way less work and quicker to get on board than an infant.

[momof5]

I will put her in a "spot" starting tomorrow if she starts again. And i will definately turn my attention to my other 3 kids. Hopefully she gives in. Listening to her cry and scream for up to 6 hours straight certainly takes a toll on your patience.

[Skysue]

I 100 % agree with Reggio that kid knows shes in control. There is no way your making as much money as you should.

Good Luck!

[Mamma_Mia]

Yes I would do the same as Reggio noted...also remember it may take a few days since she's older and is already a fighter!

Good Luck!

[Littledragon]

What have you done regarding this issue? She knows it's a game so getting upset with her, telling her it's unacceptable, or calling her grandmother is feeding into the behavior. She is OLD ENOUGH to know better. What I would do, honestly, is put her in a play pen, tell her if she's going to act like a baby, she's going to be treated like a baby, and put her in a room by herself. Go check on her once in a while, and if she's being quiet or being good, praise her but don't let her out. At least for one day. For the next few days, make this area her time out area. EVERY TIME she starts screaming, pick her up and WORDLESSLY place her in the her area. DO NOT talk to her. Don't even explain to her why she's there, she knows why she's there. Continue to do this EVERY TIME and you will notice that eventually it will become less and less. If it doesn't improve within three weeks, I'd say, I would terminate. It sucks for the little girl because she obviously has her parents wrapped around her little finger, and other daycare providers keep giving up on her. If she starts kindergarten like that, she'll get kicked out. This is what I would so anyways. I am PRO TIME OUTS. They ALWAYS work. If they are not receiving ANY attention for their behaviour and they are being taken away from the other kids, they will start to realize it just doesn't work. Because, I'm assuming, right now, she receives more attention than the other kids - even if it is negative behaviour.

[Dreamalittledream]

I feel for you!! Just curious, does anything in particular trigger a crying fit?