Frustrated! About legal limiting of people...

[Tot-Time]

busybee if your friend is the mom of the twins it is perfectly ok to have them over for a play date

The way the law is worded is that 2 or more caregivers cannot get together on a private premises unless they only have 5 children under the age of 10 combined (and only the children that live on the premises are excluded from the ratios), but a caregiver and 5 moms with as many children who are theirs can visit you or you them is not illegal.

I think the DNA needs to be updated, the DNA was developed when home daycares were basically all babysitters, there was limited programming becasue most were relatives or friends watching each others children. But times have changed and so have many home daycares. There are still some who are considered babysitters in my eyes, or some who are just caregivers meaning they do a little more than ensure the needs and safety of the children are met, but they don't have a program, structure or routines.

I see more children being injured while in the care of their parents than in caregivers. Parents are stopped from having play dates? I have some friends who have 4 - 8 children of their own and if they get together the two moms could have more children than me (but will admit they do have older children in the mix ). It is unfortunate, but unless we all get together and petition the government I can't see anything being changed

[Tot-Time]

When I have the girl, we drive into Barfhaven :P to visit my sis and her boys, and into BC to visit my parents. But that happens once every second week, maybe once a week if I can get the car.

Well, in the morning if you are ever in Barfhaven and you would like to meet up at our local hang out let me know and I can tell you which school we are at Even once a month it is still nice to get out. Unfortunately I have too many little ones right now or I would say we can drive out to you for a walk, but I never purchased the trailer for my quint stroller so I am stuck with using umbrella strollers for outings.

I didn't realize you were so close ... do tell me what kind of dance you teach? My daughter dances a lot and I am sort of on the scout for a new dance studio for her. She does love competition dance though, but I am thinking I wand to pull her from competition because it is a huge time and financial commitment.

[playfelt]

I think too one of the reasons they are enforcing the two caregivers and only 5 children is because some caregivers have been skirting the rules and they had tried to crack down on it except it was "legal" to do it - one of those letter of the law/spirit of the law things. I know of several cases where one caregiver had her 5 kids arrive to her house and then she immediately took them over to a friend's house and they hung out for the whole day or at least till after lunch and ready for naptime. Then they would go back to the caregiver's house for pick up. What this skirted was the not being able to have 2 caregivers and 10 kids in one house. Because she officially had her own daycare and children arrived and left from there she met the rules. So by banning playdates they have effectively put an end to that practice of sharing the teaching duties in one house.

[horsegirl]

You are so right dragonlady3. My husband thinks it is the government's way of controlling this area and the children. But, we know that the government has failed at trying to run businesses.

The children's advocacy group and the ECE's of BC want the government to start a tax payer funded day care program with hub centers. They want the centers to be run by ECE's and they are proposing that there be ECE's in kindergarten, grade 1 and grade 2--to help the teachers. We have already cut music, PE (gym), choir, and a lot of other extra curricular courses from the schools and now they want more cut to implement these programs.

I attended a meeting regarding taxpayer funded daycare and I took an armfull of printouts about allegations, investigations and charges in centre based daycares. I too, had a hard time finding many charges with in home day care.

I have operated my licensed daycare for 15 years and I run a preschool type program, with music and movement, science, arts & crafts, circle time, story time and theme weeks. I am not an ECE but a Mom that has seen the benefits in children's lives after being in a family day care. We are more flexible, there is more one on one time with the little ones, parents only have to deal with the person responsible for care not the manager, the parents only have one person to build trust in not the many that make up the care at the centres. Some children in our area do not even know the names of their caregivers in a centre because there are so many that look after them.

Family day care is just that, a loving family environment. As we all know there is no place like home.

[Momof4]

I meet other DCP friends in parks and splashpad settings in the summer and at the library for storytime. But I do have a friend about 3 km or so away with her own HCP and when I only have 3 children I put them in my triple stroller and we go fo a visit. I guess we don't worry very much about our visit because it's only for about an hour.

[Spixie33]

I am not sure how widely known this rule is. I had no idea it existed and was illegal until I read this thread. I see providers in my neighbourhood go for playdates in each other's back yards and more than 5 kids are present and I see them get together at the park and discuss all the barbecues they will have together during daycare hours this summer and make it a summer tradition and switch houses etc. Either DCP do not know about this or else they are just not following it. I am really surprised there is such a rule quite frankly

[playfelt]

Spixie33 that is exactly what was going on when the 2 year old drowned here in Orleans, Ontario and that started the ministry cracking down on their rules and telling us that playdates were against the rules. Several caregivers had been regularly getting together all summer in each other's places and the child drowned in a pool that was in the yard of the house they were all playing at.

Just for information the daycare providers in question have been charged for operating an illegal daycare centre - ( more than 5 kids on the premises at a time) and will be fined at minimum. Not sure if the full outcome has happened yet but that is the last word I read in the paper.

Up until this time we all thought it was ok from sharing a music teacher to having a playdate in the winter or a waterplay day in the summer. Well we were wrong. It is against the law. A lot don't know this. We do here in Ottawa because of the tragedy. No idea if they will be more vigilent about enforcing it in other cities or not. Guess people will have to decide if having their daycare closed for good and paying a fine is worth the playdate.

[Spixie33]

Spixie33 that is exactly what was going on when the 2 year old drowned here in Orleans, Ontario and that started the ministry cracking down on their rules and telling us that playdates were against the rules. Several caregivers had been regularly getting together all summer in each other's places and the child drowned in a pool that was in the yard of the house they were all playing at.

Just for information the daycare providers in question have been charged for operating an illegal daycare centre - ( more than 5 kids on the premises at a time) and will be fined at minimum. Not sure if the full outcome has happened yet but that is the last word I read in the paper.

Up until this time we all thought it was ok from sharing a music teacher to having a playdate in the winter or a waterplay day in the summer. Well we were wrong. It is against the law. A lot don't know this. We do here in Ottawa because of the tragedy. No idea if they will be more vigilent about enforcing it in other cities or not. Guess people will have to decide if having their daycare closed for good and paying a fine is worth the playdate.

I haven't followed that case that closely but I do recall seeing it in the news and shaking my head how not just 1 adult but 2 could not see the tragedy unfold.
Then again...since becoming a provider and seeing how the park turns into a social time for a lot of providers I can see that they are often busy socializing and not focused on the kids. I always feel like they are laughing at me because I follow the kids from play area to play area just in case something does happen. I am not 12 inches away but I am within a few feet or hovering nearby so i can quickly reach someone if they do get hurt or are about to

We have tons of home daycares in my subdivision and the providers do have get togethers or play in each other's yards. I haven't done it because it hasn't come up for me but I would probably have agreed if I had been asked or if someone suggested it last year. Of course now that I see this thread - I have a lot more understanding and wouldn't put my whole daycare at risk and do it.
I even took a daycare course last fall and never had the instructor even mention it. The instructor seemed to say that reaching out to other providers was actually helpful and it was great to socialize and not to feel isolated. Of course the instructor was right too but I wish she had known or told us about it being illegal if the number of DCK exceeds 5

[sunnydays]

I am lucky to have playgroups and parks vey close by and also I use my van to take the kids on outings. I think it is good for the kids and essential for me to get out and see other adults so that I don't feel too isolated. As a new daycare provider, I have had the support and advice from the numerous other caregivers who go to the playgroups and parks in my neighbourhood. This has been invaluable for me! I also like that the kids are learning a sense of community by seeing the same kids at playgroup and the park frequently...they are able to make friends and build relationships. However, I would not put my daycare at risk by breaking the rules and doing caregiver playdates. I can have other moms over with their kids if I want (although I don't think I'll do that in the winter as my playroom is not big enough to accomodate too too many kids safely at once). I really feel for those of you who cannot get out with the kids.

[dragonlady3]

I was just re-reading this thread and thinking about my own childhood. I grew up in the 60s when moms still worked from home. My mum and her neighbors took turns visiting each other thereby reducing the isolation of childcare, and they shared a lot of their experiences and advice. It dawned on me, that we caregivers of 2011 are comparable to those mothers. My mother would never have tolerated the isolation. She would have been a looney!! (My sister and I were not 'quiet' children!!!) Many of hose mothers led the struggle to implement child care so they could have careers. So here we are....mums go off to work now, and we stay back with the children, but if we get paid and are competent, we must now be isolated from each other...except for public parks, libraries, and this web site. Doesn't it seem to be a huge step back in the struggle for women's rights? We get paid for our expertise, but must be more isolated than our own mother's and grandmother's. We don't seem to have made much progress over the last 50 years....and this doesn't even deal with the issue of the benefits to our children when visiting other homes. Strange world!