Reporting a Home Daycare

[Momof4]

I had that happen twice in the last two years. The first time I suspect it was my crazy neighbours in the next house who called the Ministry of Child Services and they came in and left within 5 minutes. I had a screamer baby at the time and oh dear, they didn't like it that they had to listen to her screaming while they sat ouside in their lawn chairs smoking cigs and collecting their welfare.

The 2nd time it was my other crazy neighbour across the hall who was pissed at me because I called the cops late one night due to his smoking/noisy parties that were ongoing for years. The police told him to knock it off and the health unit came out to talk to him and post no smoking signs in our hallway after I called them so it was his petty vindictive call to CAS that brought them here. However, I'm doing everything right so I'm on record with them now as a good home daycare.

So, yes, I stand by my statements! If you suspect wrongdoing you should make the call and they don't mind and if the caregiver is doing a great job there is no harm done except for a little stress. My vindictive neighbour told them to tell me he had called just to be a jerk. But you can call anonymously.

I still believe it's best to call in a complaint if you are truly worried about the safety and welfare of children. How would you feel if a child died and you didn't make the call? I always err on the side of caution. SORRY! But I'm a Grandma and I love children and that's the way I am!

[Inspired by Reggio]

...I still believe it's best to call in a complaint if you are truly worried about the safety and welfare of children. How would you feel if a child died and you didn't make the call? I always err on the side of caution. SORRY! But I'm a Grandma and I love children and that's the way I am!

I agree Momof4 .... working in centre care as a 'professional' we were obligated by the laws to report 'suspected' abuse or neglect - it was up to CAS to determine if there was INDEED abuse of neglect occurring and yes there were times a child had markings and made a 'disclosure' that were NOT abuse or neglect but a warped perception of the child ... aka saying dad pushed me down the stairs cause he was mad at me when in reality what happened was the kid was farting around on the stairs the parent 'yelled' to knock it off and the kid startled and fell but in the kids MIND it was dad's voice that pushed him - they 'interpret' things differently and literally sometimes at that age... but if we did NOT report it and something happened to that kid and it was found that the kid had disclosed and we sloughed it off as 'kids will be kids' as a professional you can be held 'negligent' in causing that harm to the child as well

It is my understanding that they have broadened the duty to report to ALL of society now not just professionals?

Also the issue of 'illegal' childcare is not just about the children but it also damages and creates unfair business practice not only with lower fees but not paying their fair share into the societal services they benefit from - someone who is operating 'illegally' is not going to be claiming their income properly cause they are not going to be wanting a paper trail that they are ILLEGAL - so they are creating TAX FRAUD as well .... they are not playing into CPP properly but later will be able to collect them 'base amount' despite not having paid their fair share and so forth.

These are all incidentals that effect EVERYONE not just the children at risk!

Again - if we do not like the ratios restrictions imposed by the DNA we get a petition going and advocate and lobby for change - we do not just create our own rules and do whatever the hell we please .... that is not how civilized society behaves!

[michellesmunchkins]

I agree with all the ladies who say to make sure you get your facts straight! I have my 5 daycare kiddos and my own 6 year old son. The lady next door to me has 4 afterschool daycare kids and my neighbour across the street has a little boy who loves to come over and play on the climber in my yard. To anyone driving by it looks like all those crazy kids are mine...but again, I am only responsible for my own 5 and my own son. The others are there playing, but not my responsibility. So very easy to THINK that I am over my ratios when in reality I am NOT. I would NEVER report someone without 1000000000% proof that the person was legit over their ratios.

[Momof4]

Michelle, be careful when your son has a friend come over. If he's under 10 he counts as your responsibity and you could nullify your insurance or be shut down if the Ministry comes by. I'm just worried about you so thought I would mention this.

[michellesmunchkins]

Michelle, be careful when your son has a friend come over. If he's under 10 he counts as your responsibity and you could nullify your insurance or be shut down if the Ministry comes by. I'm just worried about you so thought I would mention this.

Oh for sure. His Mom comes with him so he's her responsibility. He just uses my climber but I totally get how people can 'assume' that providers are over their numbers..and with all the new rules where no matter how many adults are present you can only have 5 people will again assume they are all daycare children.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Michelle, be careful when your son has a friend come over. If he's under 10 he counts as your responsibity and you could nullify your insurance or be shut down if the Ministry comes by. I'm just worried about you so thought I would mention this.

Yup - in Ontario there is debate at the moment about 'play dates on private property' and if they are 'illegal' as well .... technically the DNA does say that there can be no more than 5 children per premise regardless of the number of adults present ... and in the past that was interpreted to mean you had to each have your own 'premise' to operate out of but you could VISIT however after the drowning death in Orleans Ottawa a couple summers ago where local providers and met in someones yard and the child drowned in the pool - a debate about this rose all over Ottawa and surrounding areas. While they were never 'charged' with anything memos flew around at many of the OEYC and other support programs advising that 'play dates' were to be conducted only on PUBLIC venues ... aka parks, OEYC, library and so forth you could not have a playdate on private property unless you had LESS than 5 daycare children in attendance in total.

Now there is nothing I personally can find directly from the Ministry of Education saying that play dates for home childcare providers are 'banned' ... it is all just 'advice' from support agencies but I would definitely tread cautiously if you are choosing to do this still - make sure your insurance carrier KNOWS and your POLICES state that it is ok in writing or you could find yourself without insurance in an incident occurred as well as you COULD find yourself with a Ministry visit and at the least a 'warning' that you cannot have more than 5 children per premise regardless of the number of adults present unless you are a licensed day care.

[jec]

Michelle, be careful when your son has a friend come over. If he's under 10 he counts as your responsibity and you could nullify your insurance or be shut down if the Ministry comes by. I'm just worried about you so thought I would mention this.

I didn't know this!!??
I am a private owned daycare and currently have 3 daycare children in my care. I have my own two kids ( that do not count in my numbers ) and if I had one of their friend's over for a play date, which I do, that is not allowed?? Brunette moment and need some clerification.

I should also add that I have 2 more daycare children joining me later this year to bring my daycare full to 5 daycare children ( again during off months of school like Christmas and summer when my kids are home, they don't count in my numbers as I am private )

[Inspired by Reggio]

Jec if you are in Ontario and operating a 'business of home childcare in your home' you would be ok as long as your total number of children in the home who are not YOURS remain 5 or less during your business hours - even if you are not 'charging' that parent for your services you are supervising the child and it will affect your insurance!

It is that tricky 'grey' area of interpretation around the rules ... Joe Parent can have a birthday party on a Saturday afternoon and invite 12 kids to the house for a couple of hours without their parents present and be FINE cause they are not offering the 'business of daycare' in their home - its just a party and short term and if an accident occurs the regular home owners would cover it.

But during your 'daycare business hours' you need to follow the rules set out by the DNA or you could run into trouble both with being reported by someone who 'thinks' you are illegal OR with your insurance in an incident ... being a 'grey' area Insurance companies will use it as a way to negate your policy if you have more than 5 children in the home when an accident occurs and your policy stated it only covered '5 children in the program'... insurance ALWAYS looks for a way not to pay out so I would not give them one!

Personally if it were me I would avoid the issue by either having your child go to a friends house during your business hours and save play dates at your house for 'after business hours' OR when your ratio allows you to be under 5 with him there OR meet his friend and caregiver at a local public venue where it is not an issue.

[playfelt]

I agree with all the ladies who say to make sure you get your facts straight! I have my 5 daycare kiddos and my own 6 year old son. The lady next door to me has 4 afterschool daycare kids and my neighbour across the street has a little boy who loves to come over and play on the climber in my yard. To anyone driving by it looks like all those crazy kids are mine...but again, I am only responsible for my own 5 and my own son. The others are there playing, but not my responsibility. So very easy to THINK that I am over my ratios when in reality I am NOT. I would NEVER report someone without 1000000000% proof that the person was legit over their ratios.

As others have said Ontario is really cracking down on home daycare and if a complaint is lodged or something happens there will be consequences issued. Those involved in the drowning situation playdate mainly got off because of the grey area in interpretting the laws in the DNA but since then the ministry has come out and made it very clear what the "rules" are in this area.

Our childcare support association took up the fight and got directly in contact with the ministry to discuss it, gave them petitions for playdates such as caregivers getting together and bringing in a music teacher and sharing the cost. They got a letter back from the ministry saying no to playdates on private property.

The interpretation of the rules and this is more to cover the AXX of the ministry than anything else is that the mom across the street and her son can come and visit any time they want and she is responsible for him. The neighbour next door can not come over and her afterschoolers ever because any kids that are not her own are considered in your care and that puts you over the limit of 5 under 10. And of course we can all see where this makes sense right......well in the ministry eyes it does. Basically no one is responsible for another parent does with their child but them. Any child being cared for by another non parent adult comes under their guidelines and per premise is 5 daycare kids plus your own regardless of how many adults are there.

[clep]

I recently had a very vindictive woman call the ministry on me because I was not willing to do as she wanted. The ministry thanked me for my time and complimented me on a having a wonderful day home. I am in Alberta and am private so I can have six children plus my own. The licencing officer told me that I can have a child over to play with my child during day home hours without an issue. She said if they ever came to check, I would have to call the parents and have them verify to the ministry over the phone, that the child is here for a play date and is not a part of my day home. They do not expect my child to go without a friend to play with all summer because mom has a day home.