I just want to add....I do believe in spanking but I firmly believe there is a line that goes into abuse. I openly say that I was abused as a child/teen, when objects are introduced to cause pain, or closed fists...its PAST that line. So I would never want that for my own daughter but when NO 100000x and removal of everything & time-outs just don't work. A hand slap or bum spanking does.