Quote Originally Posted by Judy Trickett View Post
Sigh......why does everyone need to make parenting so complicated. Just say what you mean and mean what you say. It's not hard. .....
I totally agree ~ effective behavior guidance has nothing to do with 'yelling or spanking' or other forms of punishment and you do not have to be a pushover either where the kid rules the roost cause you are afraid of 'damaging their self esteem by saying NO to them'.

If you consistently say what you mean and mean what you say and the consequences for a poor choice are NATURAL to that choice ~ than children learn to trust their environment and learn make positive choices through that cause their world makes SENSE to them .... IMO the problem with society today is NO CONSISTENCY in expectations between parents in their own house, between one friends house to the next, between school and so forth ~ our values and approaches have gotten SO DIVERSE it is hard to know for kids expectations for behavior and to that that the 'consequences' for making a poor choice are so removed from 'natural' that they cannot figure out.

The problem in almost every house the rules are not the 'same' on Monday as they are on Tuesday ... parents are saying one day 'no jumping on the couch if you jump on that couch your going to your room' and then they get busy and do not follow through and the next day they ignore them jumping on the couch all together cause their just too tired to care and the third day they are back to caring and go back to the 'if you jump on that couch you are going to your room' and the kids just look at them and keep jumping ~ cause they do not TRUST the adult to do what you say or say what you mean ~ and so the parent looses it and starts yelling at them for their 'defiance' of the constantly jumping on the couch when they have told them no .... but IMO it is not defiance it is kids being kids and doing what is 'fun' in their eyes and what they have is CONFUSION about what you really mean cause you threatened that Monday and it never happened and yesterday you did not say anything at all and so both days they got to have lots of fun jumping so they just keep going hoping that is the result they get again today ... and when the parent looses it on them they are confused and hurt and they trust the parent even less.... which is why most kids behave better for daycare providers because we cannot afford to have 'inconsistency' in our programs we need that fine oiled machine ~ kids know that HERE no jumping on the couch MEANS no jumping on the couch or you will loose your couch privileges and not get to be have time with your friends on the couch until you show some respect to the materials in the program, show respect for the safety of others whom your jumping might hurt, show respect for ME and how jumping on my furniture is RUDE .... they learn how their choices effect OTHERS and to think about that when making choices ~ verses thinking only selfishly that punishment brings of 'X will happen to ME if I jump on the couch'!

For EONS we have been trying to use 'punishment' as a way to control the masses and all we have ended up with is more JAILS holding people who make poor horrific choices and we keep thinking we need MORE punishment .... but its not working!!!!!

Children do not need 'punishment' ~ they need to learn SELF CONTROL and DISCIPLINE over their choices so that they can make GOOD CHOICES and think of others when making choices so that even without the threat of punishment they can control their behavior and actions ... we need to STOP the cycle of punishment as the way of 'control' so that when they are GROWN they can avoid ending up in JAIL because their odds of getting 'caught' making poor choices ran out on them!

I do not break the law of society because of the FINE that will be levied on me or that I might go to jail if I get 'caught' but because it is WRONG to steal from others and I do not want my stuff stolen or I driving carelessly could kill others and myself ... I make good choices because it is the right thing to do for myself and others ..... because someone TAUGHT ME empathy, anger management and impulse control as a child and how to LEARN from my poor choices and make better ones moving forward not out of 'fear' of some punishment towards ME but because of learning to think about my choices constructively!

The problem with the punishment approach is that the punishment is INCONSISTENT based on being caught by some 3rd party and selfish people, specially children who are in that very 'self centred' stage of if it feels good than do it, think they will not get caught and therefore 'evade' punishment as long as possible in order to have the 'fun' that their misbehavior allows them in the 'moment' ... just like the child jumping on the couch whose parent is not consistent with their reaction .... teach a child through 'reflection' and 'natural consequences' for their behavior to have empathy for how their choices affect others and therefore have consequences and they will learn not be SELFISH in their choices and will learn more self control and will not need the threat of 'punishment' to behave in the future!