Strange form of discipline

[Sandbox Sally]

Since we're throwing out "anecdata":

My kids aren't spanked. I am regularly complimented on their social graces and healthy respect for others. I wasn't spanked. I was a very well behaved child as well, and ended up being a productive member of society.

My kids respect me without a fear of being spanked. It's no miracle. I respect them, listen to them, teach them appropriate behaviour, and have consequences when said behaviour is not met. Yeah, I talk to them. It works.

FWIW, none of my family members or friends spank. None of them have rude children.

Can a kid be spanked and turn out mannerly? For sure! But the end result can be the same WITHOUT hitting. Disrespectful, rude and delinquent children are a result of bad parenting, not a result of lack of physical punishments. Just saying.

ETA: My kids NEVER ever ever threw fits. My oldest DD went through a 2 or 3 week phase where she had tantrums, but this was after a cross country move and a new baby sister.

[kidlove]

Total Respect and understanding alpha. Do what works for you, not saying not spanking doesnt work, just saying....in my experiences it most times doesnt seem to help. I totally respect the fact that you can wonderfully raise your kids with out a spank.....my whole "arguement" is just to defend my personal opinion. thats all, def not to "disrespect" yours. thats just what works for us, it just seems in todays opinion, parents who "spank" tend to get a negative wrap, as if "spanking" is an improper form of child rearing, when my defense is to prove the contrary. Spank or no spank you can raise a well rounded and respectful member of society with a healthy self esteem. Just too bad parents choose to abuse (too much) or neglect (not enough) and it gives well rounded parents like you and I a bad wrap on either end of the spectrum. to each his own, as long as the love a proper growth of the child is at the forefront.

[playfelt]

Just as there are different learning styles in children there is a need for different disciplining techniques and unfortunately the current wisdom lumps them all in the same vein at the same time as they promote variety in schooling methods. The two are so linked together and any educator should know that that it really makes me shudder. I can see which parents use necessary force here too by how well the children follow the rules of authority without testing every limit.

At the same time there are some children that respond to a simple glare of disaproval and others that need something far more tangible to get compliance. We see this when they are toddlers and those are the children that are showing up in the "studies" against spanking saying oh this child was spanked as a child and therefore they are delinquints today - what they forget to study is what that child was like as an infant/toddler in their degree of defiance and uncompromising character.

[kidlove]

I agree playfelt: My son is a prime example of that kid who pushes the limits...just a "talk" will not get through to him, he needs "tangible" conseqences as he is much more of a "hard-headed" child than my daughter. She just needs to know I "feel disappointed" and she is crushed and wants to change. Either way, both my kids are great! Have respect and for the most part a very well behaved children but.....I had to take two very different paths upon that arrival. Dif kids dif techniques.

[bright sparks]

I also don't see how you can spank your child without degrading them?? That seems like an oxymoron to me.

Not sure if this was meant as a response to my comment, but I imagine it was. I wasn't insinuating that spanking wasn't degrading just that the form of discipline a&b was discribing is degrading. Any kind of discipline that belittles a person is degrading.

[kidlove]

bright sparks: may have had a little to do with my "pro-spank" post.

[bright sparks]

Does it relate? The fact that "spanking" is so frowned on in our society and children are more disrespectful than ever before? Just a thought. Less and less parents believe in spanking or any other form of corporal punishment. More and more kids are "talking back to elders" "screaming for what they want" "disrespecting teachers and figures of authority" "treating their parents and DAYCARE providers as if they work for the child" "throwing fits". What is a parent supposed to do when their child behaves this way? Is the parents expected to sit down and have a equal to equal "talk" with the child regarding the choice they are making? Sometimes that may work, but I have a feeling that child will walk away from the "talk" saying "SUCKER!" and do it again. A spanking (for the right reasons) leaves a much more lasting memory for a child than that of a "talk". In my experience, if I really need to....I will ask a "spanked" child who is misbehaving, "would you like me to call mommy or daddy?" their response is immediately "no" and then they behave. If I ask the same question to a "not spanked" child, they say "yes". The spanked child has a healthy fear of what it means to suffer consequences, when the "un spanked" child knows, he or she "runs" mom and dad and wants them to come to save them from me, who they can't "run"! Just interesting to see the difference in behavior of children who are and are not disciplined with an occasional spank.

I think you make a great point and it definitely makes me go '' Ahhhh", but I wonder if the kids who are disrespectful and rude etc etc, are just modelling behaviours from parents who havent spanked but instead have screamed and shouted at them because they dont know what else to do. You can definitley do some serious damaged verbally to a child. I would be more inclined to think that was the reason for them being such disrespectful people, versus that if they had been spanked they'd have better manners and better adults when they had grown up. Just a thought.

[bright sparks]

Since we're throwing out "anecdata":

My kids aren't spanked. I am regularly complimented on their social graces and healthy respect for others. I wasn't spanked. I was a very well behaved child as well, and ended up being a productive member of society.

My kids respect me without a fear of being spanked. It's no miracle. I respect them, listen to them, teach them appropriate behaviour, and have consequences when said behaviour is not met. Yeah, I talk to them. It works.

FWIW, none of my family members or friends spank. None of them have rude children.

Can a kid be spanked and turn out mannerly? For sure! But the end result can be the same WITHOUT hitting. Disrespectful, rude and delinquent children are a result of bad parenting, not a result of lack of physical punishments. Just saying.

ETA: My kids NEVER ever ever threw fits. My oldest DD went through a 2 or 3 week phase where she had tantrums, but this was after a cross country move and a new baby sister.

Amen to that. I to, am extremely vocal parent with my children and believe that I have great kids as a result of it. Not to say there arent times when they go through changes and have frustrations but I have taught them from a young age and continue to have, open lines of communication to find productive ways of dealing with things that come up. My children know that they are heard and respected so they do not need to be dramatic about things. That being said, they know that I am consistant and what I say goes but not because of fear, but because I explain to them the whys of things and if they want to question what I say I welcome it as thats how they will learn and also they will learn from that how to respect others because I have shown them respect. I know the common thing to say to kids is that they have to earn respect, well I believe that they have to be taught it by being shown equal respect by the adults in their life. It made me smile reading your post Alphagetti, Thanks

[kidlove]

I just love the stories or "first hand witness" of a "young adult" responding to a teacher with a comment like, "what are you gonna do? you can't touch me". and then threaten a call to the police, or a story of a girl that says to her step-Dad "you cant touch me, I'll call child protective services"........aaa ahhh! there was a day when teachers could grab a kid and put a little fear in them, now? you can't. I have some day care kids, I swear have the same point of view, and although, for the "most point" I do think that punishment should fall on the parent only...what if the parent is the reason the kid is so screwed up? So many times I have walked through the stores and you see that one kid yelling in his Mothers face "I hate you"...can't help but think not only does that kid need to get straightened out but...if the Mom isn't going to do anything, I wish I could step in and do something myself. I love the old black and white movies, back in the day when the stranger would threaten to give the nasty kid a "whippin" for disrespecting or beating up the poor kid. Where did that world go? now everything is equal rights, and no violence (as if that form of discipline has been warped into such a horrid and violent act) a spanking in the woodshed years ago was the "norm" I don't think it raised a "beaten" society, I actually feel the opposite, it taught men to be men, and children to respect. It raised a more responsible society rather than one that looks for a crutch or handout or someone to feel sorry for the "abuse" they recieved.
Nothing at all wrong with choosing to raise your kids with out the use of physical punishment, but...what is so wrong with raising your kids with "old fashioned" technique and values. No choice is better or worse, both can work just as effective...just depends what the child needs.

[Sandbox Sally]

Nothing at all wrong with choosing to raise your kids with out the use of physical punishment, but...what is so wrong with raising your kids with "old fashioned" technique and values. No choice is better or worse, both can work just as effective...just depends what the child needs.

What's wrong with it? Is that rhetorical? Because I can answer that if you'd like. Let me know.