Is Discipline Non-Existent These Days?

[Judy Trickett]

I am putting this poll in this section as "caring for children" also involves discipline from time to time.

I have found, over the last ten years of providing daycare, that the parents are disciplining less and less and less and it is making MY job harder. It used to be that when a child misbehaved in care the parents also gave them the stink eye. It was not unusual, when I first started providing care, for a kid to knock on my door after hours with a bouquet of flowers or an "I'm sorry" card for being a little bugger during the day. But now it seems that no one disciplines their kids anymore and God help us if WE discipline their kids and they know about it.

So, my question to you is in the poll. I am curious what others think.

[playfelt]

Parents are part brainwashed against it and part afraid to discipline. There is so much in the media about child's self-esteem and hurting these delicate little blossoms of trouble that parents don't know which "expert" to follow.

There are no lines in the sand so to speak which is the biggest problem. What is wrong for one family is ok for another or is partly ok for another so no one knows exactly where the limits are. One of the reasons kids test us on every issue to be sure our rules really are the rules they need to follow at our house.

[Wonderwiper]

I know so many people who simply let their children rule the roost. I have a friend who's 7 year old child hits and kicks her and she never even says a word. Other friends children run around my house like maniacs when they visit. I always find myself saying " at my house we do not behave like that, we keep our hands to ourselves, say please and thank you, etc."!! These kids are not even in my daycare....why is it my job to tell them how to behave and teach them manners?

[crafty]

I doN,t know if there is any less discipline because I can't compare it but I tend to I agree with playfelt. I find that if we read just a bit about child development EVERYTHING our parents did was wrong... well according to the professional. I was spanked, forced to finish my plate, rewarded with cookies, told NOT to act like a baby, sent to my room. But if you read anything all that was not good to do... Turned out fine by the way. So they tell us HOW BAD it is for the child so maybe yes parents are AFRAID to discipline because it causes harm to their child. Plus it feels like everyone is watching and judging, so maybe it is intimidating to discipline a child in public, better do nothing. Whatever is written in a magasine on how to do is not SHOWN in real life to the parents so we really do not know how to apply it and have they been in my house ? How do they know WHY my child is acting up and if I can't apply what I have learned from my parents and I don't know how to apply what I've seen in a magazine ... what will I do ?

[Inspired by Reggio]

Life tends to be a pendulum where we swing from one extreme to the other in just about everything including 'discipline' instead of finding the balance that is there in between ... we went from it being common practice in the 50's to literally 'whip children into shape' to the hippy era in the 60's of lets 'make love not war ~ let the children be' and than back and forth over the decades trying to find the 'balance' between those two extremes so to speak.

If I answered this question based on clients over the past 5 years in my care I would state that parents are disciplining and children are better behaved because since leaving 'centre care' this has been my experience over all ~ in 5 years and 18 families through my program (my first few years I had A LOT of part time clients) only ONE client had children with behaviour challenges the rest of them were responsive attentive parents with strong clear expectations for their children and had well behaved children as a result ~ so 1 in 18 is a pretty good that would mean based on that research that on average 95% of parents ARE disciplining and only 5% are not .... however I know that is not the reality in society!

So if I based my answer on what I experienced in CENTRE care my last 7 years or what I see in the MALLS than I would vote that 'no parents are not and children are out of control as a result' .... on average out and about I see at least half a dozen 'wild out of control children' every time I leave my home with parents who are standing there oblivious on how to handle it

Reflecting back on my career and the 'changes' in families 20 years it was 'rare' for daycare classrooms to be experiencing mental health issues ~ I can tell you that the behaviour in the daycares when I was a new ECE was limited to 'age appropriate' challenges such as the toddlers biting and preschoolers being picky eaters so forth .... there was little true 'aggression' in a program ~ our programs were CALM and the children were CALM if you had a 'special needs' child in your classroom it was a child with physical disabilities not mental health issues .... in 2000 I changed jobs and went to work in a centre that served a wider 'range' of socio economical clients and WOW what a difference in experiences ~ I lasted 2 years and had to take a year off cause I burnt out dealing with the behaviour ~ angry 3 year old children who turned on a dime from being sweet kid to one who ripped the sink off the wall in the bathroom - it was just shocking! Now a days it is not uncommon to have at least THREE children in a group of SIXTEEN in preschool classroom with 'identified' mental health issues and than you have additional ones who are 'challenged' but do not have a diagnosis ... that is a HUGE increase in children who are suffering with anger issues, OCD, depression, ADHD and so forth ~ we have to ask ourselves WHY cause these are not things that are born out of differences of 'discipline' they are actual mental health issues with the wiring of the brain?????

Centre based programs are SCARY now a days ~it is not uncommon to come across children who are so very ANGRY with the world they are heaving tables across the room ~ honestly in such a short time on this planet how can you be filled with that kid of rage ~ and as a child your biggest worries should be 'shall I paint or play with blocks today' .... but these children have been exposed to horrors that would make your toes curl and some of them suffer from PTSD from their short time on this planet from the stress in their home lives!

Think about the bigger picture here for a moment as possible causes to this increase in 'behaviour' we see in our programs and the indifference in parents .... 20 years ago the average work day was 7.5 hours with a 30 minute lunch break so 7.5 hours or if you were 'unlucky' you worked an 8 hour day and got an hour for lunch but now it is common for most people to be working 9 plus hours a day as the 'norm' .... people who work in factories are working 12 hour shifts and in addition to longer work hours you can add in longer commute times due to all the traffic on the roads and people having to go outside their communities for work ~ parents are exhausted balancing work and home life and just have less time to parent their children.

Now put work aside ~ back than the average child attended maybe ONE extra curricular activity a year and now if you listen to parents they are balancing 2-3 a season because studies show that children 'engaged' in the early years thrive later in life and well the dance studios and soccer and music companies all JUMP on research tidbits like that and play to parents wanting the 'best' for their kids .... while the poor parents who do not actually READ the research but just the tidbits that the media chooses to highlight do not realize that the study is actually talking about HIGH RISK children being engaged in the early years thrive better later in life it is not talking about the average child with two responsive adults in their life ... children do not need to be 'engaged in organized scheduled planned out the wazoo activities' they need access to responsive caring adults who encourage and set the stage for them to thrive through a safe environment of PLAY!

Than add on top of that all the 'time constraints' on families you definitely no longer know what advice to TRUST out there because big business has their hand in just about EVERYTHING and so research findings are suspect depending on who 'funded' it ... cause if a study toting that children need to be engaged in more extra curricular activities is funded by a business that SELLS extra curricular activities well seriously is that 'unbiased' .... any research findings have to be taken with a grain of salt for sure and so often we contradict each other cause well life is not always 'right or wrong' but a balance!

20 plus years ago look at the 'lifestyle' of the average household and how often they might have eaten out, what was going on in our food sources back in the 80's opposed to NOW and so forth!

IMO there is way more going on in our society than varied discipline approaches .... IMO most parents today just feel 'defeated' and lack the skills and resources to deal with the demands placed on families today .... there is all this pressure to keep up with the Jones between having the ideal career and 'material things' and than instead of giving birth to a little 'angel' the children we are bringing into this world these days are coming with mental health and other 'health' issues because from before they are born their little bodies are being pumped full of artificial hormones in our milk and meat supplies, genetically modified foods line our shelfs, we pump them full of more and more 'chemicals' in the guise of vaccines for chicken pox and ear infections and other things that do we really NEED ... having a healthy normal child is exhausting and stressful enough having a 'high maintenance' child can be devastating to parents who do not have the skills to deal with that!

Our entire society is SLEEP DEPRIVED ... not only do adults not get enough sleep to thrive but their children are no longer sleeping properly and therefore are growing up WILD with emotion and the inability to regulate it.

I guess my point is that I think we have way more issues to deal with children today than just 'discipline' ... I argue that if we fixed some of the other issues we would need less discipline in the first place because children would come into the world well nourished, with healthy sleep patterns and more 'resilience' to learning through positive role modeling from the caring responsive adults in their life

[Momof4]

I have a simple common sense answer: My own children are in their 20's and 30's now and they are the age of most of the new parents we have to deal with on a daily basis. Now when I remember back to when they were small and I was disciplining them it was the start of the 'Kid's Help Line' that was taught at schools and how parents should never spank them because that was abuse.

It is my opinion that since the school system taught this generation that their parents should not be disciplining them that it is there in their brains deep down that they should not discipline their children. I have two daughters who are now Moms and one of my daughters is pretty strict with her kids and she has a great husband for backup. My other daughter is a single Mom and having issues with her son, but all in all he is pretty darned well behaved. Partly because he was in Grandma's daycare for 3 1/2 year, if I do say so myself!

[kidlove]

The problem is: TOO MANY BOOKS READ, TOO MANY "STUDIES" DONE! .....NOT ENOUGH COMMON SENSE, WHEN RAISING KIDS.

[michellesmunchkins]

The problem is: TOO MANY BOOKS READ, TOO MANY "STUDIES" DONE! .....NOT ENOUGH COMMON SENSE, WHEN RAISING KIDS.

Agree!!!!!!!

[Toregone]

As a parent of a young child it is hard in this society to disipline. That doesn't stop my husband and I from sending out child to his room, spanking his bum sometimes, teaching him manners, and *gasp* raising our voices sometimes.

I say it is hard because of cases like what happened to my husband last night. We were grocery shopping and at the check out my son started whining for candy. After a couple of attempts to placate him he started raising his volume and went into full blown tantrum. My husband said "Ok, we're going to the car." and proceeded to take him to the car while I paid for the groceries. Apperantly while he was struggling to get my kicking and screaming 3 year old safely into his car seat he raised his voice and said "N! Sit down now! You have to be in your seat!" The same thing I've said a dozen times in the same situation. While a gentleman in the truck next to us got out of his vehicle and started to lecture my husband about not raising his voice to a child and how yelling helps nothing, don't do it... God, the guy is lucky I wasn't there and only heard about it after. My hubby is nicer than I am

When complete strangers feel it is thier right to put the guilt trip on a parent after seeing a small snippet of the picture something is wrong. It makes it hard as a parent today, you feel the censure of society and it's not just in your head, people will actually bust your chops on things. Maybe I'm just old school but I still believe in disipline for my child, will send him to his room, take away toys, and do not tolerate disrecpect. Be dammed what the guy in the grocery store parking lot thinks.

[country girl]

EVERYTHING our parents did was wrong... well according to the professional. I was spanked, forced to finish my plate, rewarded with cookies, told NOT to act like a baby, sent to my room. But if you read anything all that was not good to do... Turned out fine by the way. So they tell us HOW BAD it is for the child so maybe yes parents are AFRAID to discipline because it causes harm to their child. Plus it feels like everyone is watching and judging, so maybe it is intimidating to discipline a child in public, better do nothing. Whatever is written in a magasine on how to do is not SHOWN in real life to the parents so we really do not know how to apply it and have they been in my house ? How do they know WHY my child is acting up and if I can't apply what I have learned from my parents and I don't know how to apply what I've seen in a magazine ... what will I do ?

Yes I tend to agree with this...I believe there are so many studies done & too many "parenting" books out there written by "experts" and parents then feel judged if they discipline the "wrong" way. Or don't practice what the so-called experts say. I see it every day in my area and with my friends. Parents acting one way while in the company of other parents and listening to every study published. Personally I don't give a shit what people think me...so I rarely have this problem. I tell it like it is. I am (usually) a tough love type of parent & make no bones about that. However, when your talking parenting with some people who don't agree with your form of discipline you sometimes get "the look" of disgust from them. Some people just care too much about what others think when it comes to parenting & don't want to be judged.