Is Discipline Non-Existent These Days?

[Sandbox Sally]

I just wanted to chime in here:

I think everyone knows by now that I am PRO gentle discipline and ANTI spanking and shaming for discipline methods.

The books and the studies that say that shaming and corporal punishment aren't effective are not flawed - the parents' interpretation of the studies is flawed.

Not spanking/shouting/shaming does NOT equal not disciplining. So much can be done without causing physical pain or humiliation. As I have rambled on and on about on previous threads, I have, first hand, seen many many children who were raised with gentle discipline methods who have turned out to be beautiful, polite, well rounded citizens.

IMO, the real problem here is not the newfangled way of doing things, but rather, lazy parenting being a more common reality these days.

[sunnydays]

I think it is definitely possible to discipline with or without spanking etc...but I think the problem is that parents are tired and busy. They rush home from work, rush to extra-curricular events, ahve no support from extended family and often bring work home with them on their blackberries etc. Life is all about rushing kids from one event to the next, whether it be eating dinner and getting to bed or hockey practice...there is very little down time for anyone and everyone is always stressed! I feel this sometimes myself and struggle to keep it at bay because I do not want my kids to feel stressed...but at the same tiem I have to get them to eat and to bath and to bed on time so they are ready for school the next day and so I have time to clean up and rest a bit myself before the next day begins. And I purposely avoid putting my kids in extra-curricular activities except for one at a time because this just adds to the chaos and the stress and is totally unnecessary! Too little time, too much stress, tired parents...nobody has teh energy to discipline...it easier to just give them the cookies they want and buy yourself a few minutes of silence. I also agree that we are judged a lot by others in society and it makes it harder to discipline because we have to endure the "looks" from others when we do.

[kidlove]

I stand firm on what I believe in....I am a good Mother and if I have to....will "raise my voice" or "spank" my child if needed and am willing to be scrutinized and judged by others. The proper raising of my child comes way before the "opinions" of others.

Wow, Toregone....so funny, I read what happened to your Hubby, I fear the day someone approaches my Husband like that.....well, fear for the one approaching. (if you catch my drift)

[Toregone]

I stand firm on what I believe in....I am a good Mother and if I have to....will "raise my voice" or "spank" my child if needed and am willing to be scrutinized and judged by others. The proper raising of my child comes way before the "opinions" of others.

Wow, Toregone....so funny, I read what happened to your Hubby, I fear the day someone approaches my Husband like that.....well, fear for the one approaching. (if you catch my drift)

My husband fears the day someone approaches me like that haha. He's much more laid back than I and inclined to just turn the other cheek and ignore someone. I on the other hand would let the person know on no uncertian terms to lay off... esp now when I'm preggo and hormonal haha.

[crafty]

I agree with you Alpha, however I do not beleive it is lazyness. I mean some people have been tought different approches and they lack the knowledge , time and support.

I myself do not spank or yell but I was raised that way.However I had interests in kids and I studied in the social work field so I have tools and I learned to do things differently. But not everyone has been in the same boat. To me if parents are at least doing something and beeing CONSISTENT that's the key. I am very firm with my own kids, I will give them a chance to make amends, I am not afraid of saying no and giving logical consequences to unacceptable behaviours and I will raise my voice because all this has proved very effective for me.

What I think is happenning is we are asking parents to be perfect and have perfect children. If I see someone spank a child or humiliate them yes ofcourse I will cringe ... but honestly who am I to judge them. Because I've read in a book that you are no suppose to do that they are BAD parents ?

[Mamma_Mia]

As a parent of a young child it is hard in this society to disipline. That doesn't stop my husband and I from sending out child to his room, spanking his bum sometimes, teaching him manners, and *gasp* raising our voices sometimes.

I say it is hard because of cases like what happened to my husband last night. We were grocery shopping and at the check out my son started whining for candy. After a couple of attempts to placate him he started raising his volume and went into full blown tantrum. My husband said "Ok, we're going to the car." and proceeded to take him to the car while I paid for the groceries. Apperantly while he was struggling to get my kicking and screaming 3 year old safely into his car seat he raised his voice and said "N! Sit down now! You have to be in your seat!" The same thing I've said a dozen times in the same situation. While a gentleman in the truck next to us got out of his vehicle and started to lecture my husband about not raising his voice to a child and how yelling helps nothing, don't do it... God, the guy is lucky I wasn't there and only heard about it after. My hubby is nicer than I am

When complete strangers feel it is thier right to put the guilt trip on a parent after seeing a small snippet of the picture something is wrong. It makes it hard as a parent today, you feel the censure of society and it's not just in your head, people will actually bust your chops on things. Maybe I'm just old school but I still believe in disipline for my child, will send him to his room, take away toys, and do not tolerate disrecpect. Be dammed what the guy in the grocery store parking lot thinks.

You and me sister!
If ANYONE got involved in my parenting they will for sure get a glare of death and depending on what they interupted a few choice words. Mind your own business!!!
First parents don't decipline enough, they they're too hard ........Pick one!!!! But do NOT as a stranger get involved in MY life.....oooooo I'm seeing red!

[Mamma_Mia]

I have a simple common sense answer: My own children are in their 20's and 30's now and they are the age of most of the new parents we have to deal with on a daily basis. Now when I remember back to when they were small and I was disciplining them it was the start of the 'Kid's Help Line' that was taught at schools and how parents should never spank them because that was abuse.

It is my opinion that since the school system taught this generation that their parents should not be disciplining them that it is there in their brains deep down that they should not discipline their children. I have two daughters who are now Moms and one of my daughters is pretty strict with her kids and she has a great husband for backup. My other daughter is a single Mom and having issues with her son, but all in all he is pretty darned well behaved. Partly because he was in Grandma's daycare for 3 1/2 year, if I do say so myself!

I am proud to say that I am 27 years old and I remember when that started in our school. We thought we were golden and able to say/do whatever we wanted to our parents because the police would come and get them.

Well I remember being 12yrs old and I came home at lunch with friends (big no-no). My dad was fuming and yelling at the mess we made. I rolled my eyes and ignored him...then I said "you can't do anything or I'm calling CS on you". BIGGEST mistake ever!! Dad replied "oh yeah? go ahead and call them....by the time they get here I'd already kill you". Eeeeeekkkk!!!!

My parents weren't afraid and still enforced the same rules & respect. NOW I had friends who did the same and their parents backed off.....That's when I think it went down hill! If THOSE parents stuck to their guns we wouldn't be in this now...

[Momof4]

MammaMia I wish I could thank you a thousand times. Are you sure you aren't my daughter?

I was a single Mom faced with exactly what you are describing from my children once they reached age 11 or so and it was all choas after that. There were times when I said to them: Good, call the kid's help line and tell them I want to report Mother Abuse!!!

But you see, up until age 10 my children were raised with love and discipline and rules and fun in equal measures and I stand by my tried and true rule - COMMON SENSE!

That is exactly why my children turned out to be fantastic people once they survived their teenage years

[daycarewhisperer]

I think it is definitely possible to discipline with or without spanking etc...but I think the problem is that parents are tired and busy. They rush home from work, rush to extra-curricular events, ahve no support from extended family and often bring work home with them on their blackberries etc. Life is all about rushing kids from one event to the next, whether it be eating dinner and getting to bed or hockey practice...there is very little down time for anyone and everyone is always stressed! I feel this sometimes myself and struggle to keep it at bay because I do not want my kids to feel stressed...but at the same tiem I have to get them to eat and to bath and to bed on time so they are ready for school the next day and so I have time to clean up and rest a bit myself before the next day begins. And I purposely avoid putting my kids in extra-curricular activities except for one at a time because this just adds to the chaos and the stress and is totally unnecessary! Too little time, too much stress, tired parents...nobody has teh energy to discipline...it easier to just give them the cookies they want and buy yourself a few minutes of silence. I also agree that we are judged a lot by others in society and it makes it harder to discipline because we have to endure the "looks" from others when we do.

I don't think this is really true. If you think about it, we have it so so so easy. We don't have to wash clothes by hand, hand carry water, chop wood, cook off a wood stove, work the fields, raise our own meats and vegetables, go by horse and carriage. We have stores that have everything we could possibly need all at one stop. We can purchase prepared food and just heat and serve. We can store the food easily our temp controlled house and our refrigerators.

We have instant access to each other. We have electricity, gas, entertainment at our finger TIPS. There couldn't be an easier time to raise children then now. We are NOT busier than our foremothers and fathers. We do NOT have it harder.

[Toregone]

I don't think this is really true. If you think about it, we have it so so so easy. We don't have to wash clothes by hand, hand carry water, chop wood, cook off a wood stove, work the fields, raise our own meats and vegetables, go by horse and carriage. We have stores that have everything we could possibly need all at one stop. We can purchase prepared food and just heat and serve. We can store the food easily our temp controlled house and our refrigerators.

We have instant access to each other. We have electricity, gas, entertainment at our finger TIPS. There couldn't be an easier time to raise children then now. We are NOT busier than our foremothers and fathers. We do NOT have it harder.

I would have to disagree somewhat. No I don't think we are busier per say but the lives we lead are so very different than that time it's comparing apples to oranges. No we don't have to chop wood, and wash laundry by hand but in the same token neither did they have 1.5 hour long daily commutes or parent teacher meetings. Society itself has also changed and life is less family/home-centric. Gone are the days of 6 kids at home HELPING mom wash laundry and dad chop wood. Parents nowadays balance tasks that are just as time consuming and do it without help because it's things kids can't do. Grandparents are less support because they themselves are often working.

Raising kids is tough regardless of if you were doing in now, 50 years or or 100 years ago. It's just tough in different ways.