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  1. #11
    Euphoric ! Inspired by Reggio's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan Cassandram ... how long has she been 'open' do you know? Just wonder how long she has be using this 'contract' and if other clients just willing pay for all this extra?

    Sadly since she is self employed and 'makes' the contract as a result and you signed it I would be prepared for her to NOT want to negotiate it now. However if she looses you as a client because of it hopefully she will use that as a reflection tool that her contract is too ambiguous and technically could get her into trouble if a client decided to SUE her for it because technically ambiguity in a contract and how it could be 'interpreted' is typically awarded to the person who DID NOT WRITE IT aka the client in this case because it is our job to make sure that expectations are CLEAR!

    I also agree with the Jazmic about doing the 'math' around what she charges you compared to what others charge and what is included in that to make sure you are not comparing apples to oranges when deciding what is 'fair' in regards to payment ~ because while it does sound 'excessive' depending on the circumstances it might actually be 'fair' if that makes sense.

    For example I offer my clients TWO payment options depending on how they like to budget...

    Payment option A is requires no payment when I am closed for vacation or personal sick days just for the 10 public holidays Canada observes .... New Years Day, Family Day, Good Friday, Victoria Day, Canada Day, Civic Holiday Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas and Boxing day ... I am also closed Easter Monday as well but take than 'unpaid'.

    My Option B payment is a weekly fee payment 8% lower than option A and this plan includes payment for the above stat closures plus 10 vacation day closures that are accompanied by 60 days written notice of closure and 10 personal/emergency closures which come with as much notice as possible under the circumstances.

    At the end of the year they are paying the 'same' fee as each other and they are paying the 'average' rate for my neighborhood over all.

    Good luck!
    Children construct their own intelligence. The adult must provide activities and context, but most of all must be able to listen. Children need proof that adults believe in them. Their three great desires are to be listened to, to understand, and to demonstrate that they are exactly what we expect."
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  2. #12
    Euphoric ! kidlove's Avatar
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    bottom line...YES, she IS taking advantage of you....but, if her contracts state she can take these days off (no notice?, at her leizure?) she's somewhat in the right. (only in her eyes) You are doing the right thing looking for someone else, when you are searching through other providers, make sure you have a list of ALL the expectations you have...don't let this one "jade" you, they are not all bad. However, this time...do your homework and make sure you pick a provider that is right for you, she's out there.
    I too, do not take pay for "my time off" I also DO NOT take rediculous days off such as "fathers day" that IS totally taking advantage. She wants a paycheck for nothing IMO. I say, "FIND SOMEONE ELSE AND GIVE HER NO PAYCHECK AT ALL!!" Good Luck!

  3. #13
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    She takes a day in lieu if father's day? That is ridiculous, as is taking both American and Canadian stats! I have all CANADIAN stat and civic holidays off and paid. I have March break, one week at Christmas and 2 weeks in the summer as my vacation-but this is UNPAID. I also have 5 personal days which I give parents ample notice for and again - these are UNPAID. I think you are completely being taken advantage of...I am sorry to hear this-it's ridiculous

  4. #14
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    I've never heard anybody taking Mother's Day or Father's Day as a holiday. I have a dcMom who works for CRA and she doesn't get Family Day in Feb. which I take as a day off but she does get Remembrance Day which I don't use as a stat. But Federal or Provincial, they are both Canadian stats at least!

  5. #15
    Expansive... Judy Trickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassandram View Post
    We live in a different economy now. Flexibility is the key to any good business relationship.
    I don't agree. I don't think we need to be "flexible". We run a business just like any other business, large or small. I think 'flexibility' is a word used by parents with regard to home daycare when the parent expects SPECIAL. And SPECIAL always comes at the provider's expense.

    Now, don't get me wrong - I DO think your provider's time off is excessive and over the top. I mean, really, American holidays? I also think it would be hard to keep clientelle who are paying for provider vacation time if it is three or four weeks a year. And, in that regard, I think your provider is likely just inexperienced with regard to this business.

    However, YOU signed a contract with the provider and, as you stated, all this was included in that contract. It was your job to do the homework and understand what is considered the market expectations with regard to daycare in your area as well as viewing and completely understanding the contract before you signed it. You agreed to the terms of the contract, and, IMO, the provider is really doing nothing "wrong" but simply enforcing her contract.

    Is it a bad contract? Likely. But that is not the point here.

    You could try to "negotiate" the contract, as you have stated, but honestly most daycare provider contracts are not negotiable. Mine isn't. I would rather lose a client than negotiate my fees or paid holidays etc. So just be ready for her to be willing to cut you loose if you take that approach.

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  7. #16
    Euphoric ! Inspired by Reggio's Avatar
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    Well said Judy ~ I personally would never have signed a contract that was so ambiguous around holidays!

    HOWEVER just wanted to add that the poorly worded contract aside and strictly discussing the amount of time taken off .... the original poster COULD be talking about me .... my Option B contracts include 'paid vacation and sick days' but it is not unlimited it is clearly defined as 10 days per calendar year of vacation with 60 days written notice and 10 days a calendar year of personal/emergency/sick days with as much not as possible .... so in reality that is FOUR WEEKS of time right there and in addition I also get 10 stat holiday closures paid ~ so that is another TWO WEEKS .... so I get a total of SIX WEEKS a year in paid time off that I can and DO take and depending when you start that could have all almost ALL been taken in an 8 month time frame!

    So yes it sounds excessive when you put it in writing like that but it sure does not FEEL excessive to me and in reality MOST employees get two weeks vacation, 10 sick days and all stats off ~ if clients are not comfortable with that than they can opt for a Option A contract and pay the HIGHER fee payment each week and I will put the money aside myself for my closures ... but either way I get paid the same and THAT is what we do not know here is what fees were being charged here in comparison to the norm in the community ~ maybe she charges 'less' each week in exchange for having 'paid' time off

    Perhaps this provider has been in the field for 10, 15 or 20 years and rather than 'raising her direct fees' so that she is not higher than the 'average' in her community instead to get recognition for her years of experience and track record she has been adding in additional 'paid time off' as her financial perk for the skills and experience she brings to the table to her clients .... which I can appreciate having been in the field for 25 years not just in home childcare but in the entire industry ~ it can get frustrating that you can never seem to 'get ahead' of the newbie around the corner who opens up or the new ECE graduate out of school who gets paid exactly the same as you do because well our field, unlike others, society does not seem to recognize performance or experience as a value they are willing to PAY extra for .... at least not 'directly' so for those of us who are 'seasoned' we try to add it in 'indirectly' through additional time off or other perks ... I have peers who get paid days off like their own birthday or their children's birthday or they take their Anniversary off or Christmas Eve and so forth .... like Mother's Day these are not 'Canadian Stats' but it is at least CLEARLY LISTED in the contract so that clients signing on know what they are agreeing to

    Bottom line is new or a experiences ~ a provider is entitled to negotiate whatever she wants into her contract and it is up to the client to agree to that or not ~ however if one does not have a CLEAR contract than one is going to run into issues like this where it is up for interpretation and therefore anger and frustration on the clients part leading to high turn over
    Children construct their own intelligence. The adult must provide activities and context, but most of all must be able to listen. Children need proof that adults believe in them. Their three great desires are to be listened to, to understand, and to demonstrate that they are exactly what we expect."
    Loris Malaguzzi

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  9. #17
    Euphoric !
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    Reggio ihave almost the same thing ...... Three weeks paid holidays and 5 paid personal days and all the stats ..... But it is in my contract/handbook and it clear !

  10. #18
    Shy Daycare Momma's Avatar
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    Vacation and Holidays

    I have been doing home daycare for several years (10 or so), and I have always had "15 paid vacation days" in my contracts as well as all CDN stat and civic holidays paid. I do not get paid for any sick or personal days though. I also make sure to give parents ample notice of any vacation time usually 2 to 3 months written notice. I have never had anybody have any issues with this. I think if the contract is spelled out clearly, this is the key to averting any issues.

    While I do sympathize with your situation, you did sign her contract that was too vague and perhaps misleading. Although I don't think she would be legally able to charge you for US holidays or Mothers and Fathers day. Definitely excessive. Hope you find alternate care soon.

  11. #19
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    On the provider's end there may be a very good reason for some of what she has put in her contract and yes if it is written there then she can enforce it although it does sound like there are some ambiguous days she just takes if she wants to. For things like Mother's and Father's days they are technically the Sunday so if her or hubby's parents live out of town then they may very well need to take a personal day on the Monday to travel to visit them all but an explanation at the time of signing since it is an unusal thing would have been nice. Can not understand the US holidays unless they live close enough to the border to take advantage of holiday shopping specials and actually travel to the US for their holiday days - or again one of them is American and not Canadian and they celebrate everything. But again an explanation would have been nice.

    While she is in her right to put whatever she wants in her contract. You are also in your right to choose to terminate the contract - with proper notice and to find someone with a vacation package that better fits with your schedule of days off.

  12. #20
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    I would also never negotiate my contract. It is the parent's responsibility to ask questions BEFORE it is signed. They don't have to sign it if there are issues they don't agree with. I close CDN stats and give at least 30 days notice for holidays any other day I wish to not open. Barring unforeseen emergencies course. I also never ASK a parent if it's okay that I close.

    That being said however, I do agree that OP's provider is taking advantage and her contract leaves too much for interpretation.

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