Please help, unable to find definition for unrelated children

[Naftafia]

Hello all,
I searched through and through in order to find information regarding the amount of children we could care for as informal (unlicensed) providers. I know it is 5 plus your own... but it is not that clearly written. The term unrelated keeps on coming up and I simply can't find a definition for this vague term.

As per the government of Ontario link and all information I have found they state the following "In Ontario, an individual may look after five or fewer unrelated children under 10 years of age without a licence, regardless of the number of adults present at the location."
I also found "Informal care providers do not need to be licensed under the Day Nurseries Act as long as care is provided to no more than five children under 10 years of age who are not of common parentage."

What is the definition of unrelated? Common parentage does not necessarily imply that the caregiver would be the parent?

This is leading me to think that an exception can be made for my nephews and/or for sibbling d/c kids.
I am wondering how you girls are reading into this and if you are able to provide another website link with more detailed information.

Just for kicks I looked outside ontario and found a link for missouri which clearly defines related as aunt, uncle, grandparents etc.... So in this state they could watch four kids plus any related kids.

Thanks for the help

[Crayola kiddies]

Hi I went on to ehow.com and typed in "home daycare regulations in ontario" and on this page it states "unregulated home daycare may have a maximum of 5 children not including their own and regulated hone daycares may have up to 5 children including their own" hope this helps

[playfelt]

Unrelated means the children in the group are not all related to each other even if some of them are siblings not all of them are. Unless you have legal custody of your nephews then they must count in your 5 daycare children. This applies to grandchildren too.

In theory what it means is if a family like Kate plus 8 wanted to put her kids in care you might legally be allowed to care for all 8 of them since they are related to each other but not even sure about that one.

[BlueRose]

I am with two agencies in Ottawa, this is what they have both told me:
I can have 5 daycare kids plus my own two kids.
I can only have 2 under the age of 2 years,
1 child can be 2 years old, (3 under 3 years)
the rest can be 3 years and older as long as 5 of the kids are under 6 years old.
if I wanted I could have all 3 year olds or 3 two year olds (3 under 3years) and 2 three year olds. etc.

My kids are 10 months and 3 years, so I can have:
my 10 month old + 1 other under 2 years
one 2 year old
my 3 year old + 1 other between 3 and 5 years old.
I can also have 2 before and after school kids over the between the ages of 6 years and 10 years.
Since my two kids are under the age of 6 they count in my age numbers.

If you need me to explain it better, P.M. me and I will give you my phone number.

[sunnydays]

These rules only apply to those providers who are with agencies. For those of us who are private, it is 5 daycare kids of any age plus your own children (they do not count in the numbers). So in theory, I could have 5 one year olds and if I had one year old twins of my own, I could still have the 5 daycare one year olds ( I would not want to do this...but it would be legal)! I find the wording confusing too when it says "unrelated"...bu t personally I would not want more than 5 daycare children anyway, so never really worried about it.

I am with two agencies in Ottawa, this is what they have both told me:
I can have 5 daycare kids plus my own two kids.
I can only have 2 under the age of 2 years,
1 child can be 2 years old, (3 under 3 years)
the rest can be 3 years and older as long as 5 of the kids are under 6 years old.
if I wanted I could have all 3 year olds or 3 two year olds (3 under 3years) and 2 three year olds. etc.

My kids are 10 months and 3 years, so I can have:
my 10 month old + 1 other under 2 years
one 2 year old
my 3 year old + 1 other between 3 and 5 years old.
I can also have 2 before and after school kids over the between the ages of 6 years and 10 years.
Since my two kids are under the age of 6 they count in my age numbers.

If you need me to explain it better, P.M. me and I will give you my phone number.

[Inspired by Reggio]

The intent of that wording is to ensure that someone who has 8 children of their OWN in the home ... aka all the children are of common parentage meaning they ALL share either a mother / father in common either by birth or legal guardianship ... does not require a license to operate a day nursery

So basically you can care for as many children of your OWN as you want and the government does not care ... but if you want to operate a BUSINESS and care for children who are not YOUR children .... than you may only have 5 additional children in your care as they are not off common parentage to YOU .... so if you have two daycare siblings in care they count as TWO spaces being occupied out of your FIVE. If you have your niece, your grandchild, your cousins even through 'related' to you in a manner they are not of common parentage to YOU and are there fore 'unrelated' in this context ... so yes they too count!

My best advice is to not take our word for it ~ call the Ministry of Education and ASK to speak to someone in the childcare regulation office and get the correct intent and interpretation of this directly from them ~ and make sure to ask for their reply in WRITING so you have written proof of what they tell you you may do because sadly they all interpret the bloody act differently themselves ~ but if you have it in writing on government stationary that you were directed you could or could not do something your ass is covered

[Inspired by Reggio]

I am with two agencies in Ottawa, this is what they have both told me:
I can have 5 daycare kids plus my own two kids.
I can only have 2 under the age of 2 years,
1 child can be 2 years old, (3 under 3 years)
the rest can be 3 years and older as long as 5 of the kids are under 6 years old.
if I wanted I could have all 3 year olds or 3 two year olds (3 under 3years) and 2 three year olds. etc.

My kids are 10 months and 3 years, so I can have:
my 10 month old + 1 other under 2 years
one 2 year old
my 3 year old + 1 other between 3 and 5 years old.
I can also have 2 before and after school kids over the between the ages of 6 years and 10 years.
Since my two kids are under the age of 6 they count in my age numbers.

If you need me to explain it better, P.M. me and I will give you my phone number.

WOW you got an awesome agency interpretation going on there Valerie count yourself lucky ... in my hometown if you had children under the age of 6 they count in your ratio of 5 including your own .... so you would only be allowed to have 3 daycare children within the 'age restriction totals' until your own were over 6 and school age and than you could have 5 daycare kids total...and one agency makes you count your own kids until they are 10!!!

[apples and bananas]

I'd like to add a question to this thread. What about step kids? Do they count towards my numbers? They're technically related to my spouse and my spouse is related to me through marriage. So, do my step kids become my own kids through marriage based on this rule?

[Inspired by Reggio]

I'd like to add a question to this thread. What about step kids? Do they count towards my numbers? They're technically related to my spouse and my spouse is related to me through marriage. So, do my step kids become my own kids through marriage based on this rule?

I would call and ask to be sure you have an first hand answer that way if it is ever questioned you have done the research first hand ... unfortunately you are the one that if the Ministry were to show up at your door and ultimately held accountable to their interpretation and the interpretation / practice in your community might be different as well.

However when I was with an agency I had to count my stepson initially for the first few months I was open when he was here until he turned 10 because we according to he was not MINE and I did not have 'custody' of him and our residences was not his primary residence ... seriously sometimes the rules are STUPID!

Flip side i have two providers friends who have fostered to adopt while doing home childcare ... one had to count the foster children in her ratios for the daycare because they were 'technically still wards of the state and not their child' so she ended up closing up cause she could not afford to make a go of it on the 3 children she was allowed to have and the other has not had to count the kids who are basically the same age because they interpret the rule as the providers home is now the primary residence and therefore 'their children' in all intensive purposes .... both providers working in same city, with same DNA rules and same CSA mandates but both having very different experiences on what is 'allowable' based on the interpretation of their home care coordinators / inspectors?

One of the reasons why there are so many heated debates about what is 'right or wrong' cause even those who 'oversee' the industry cannot agree on the poorly worded act and therefore have many different interpretations!

[Naftafia]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my question.
I did take the time to call the regional office of the ministry of youth and children's services and got the very same answer as given by playfelt and reggio... so the only exception would be a family having more than 6 children of the "same parentage".
The lady was very helpful and shared the opinion that the definition should be included on there website... she even suggested I call the toronto office to suggest that this be added