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  1. #11
    Euphoric !
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    If you paid for two weeks care plus a two weeks deposit then she should return your deposit as well as the second week of care that she refused to provide .... I would send her an email telling her that and I would tell her that one week was not enough time to transition especially when you are willing to work with her and if it's not refunded you will take her to small claims or will be seeking legal council which ever route you decide.

  2. #12
    Euphoric ! Inspired by Reggio's Avatar
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    I agree Kidlove that knowing our limits is key and we need to respect that for sure in this provider ... knowing our limits and breaking points and having a plan for when we are approaching those is KEY to success in this business!

    However I also think a providers 'limits' should be CLEAR in the interview and policies of the business because personally I would never sign on a contract where a two week deposit is required and is basically 'non refundable' and can only be applied to service if the policy also stated 'if your child does not adjust to program in a weeks time frame you will be terminated from care and the deposit will be kept as it is non refundable ~ if you want to try again in a years time we will let you use that two week deposit than' .... seriously what parent would sign a contract like that?

    Honestly how many among US if we put our child in care and our provider came to us and said 'I cannot handle your child's crying all day long do not feel he is adjusting fast enough to the program and need to give notice' would continue to SEND the child to this person whose admitted they are at their breaking point even if they offered to keep him for the 'two weeks' ... how is that best practice for anyone and holding a client hostage for their deposit is just bad karma if they have done nothing wrong expect have a wee babe whose kid takes longer than 'average'!

    If you QUIT a job out in the real world without any notice cause you'd had decided you're not really 'cut out for working with the people there' you do not get a paid 'notice period' from the employer cause well the employer did not do anything 'wrong' to breach the employment contract and warrant paying for a notice period ... you quit without notice you only get paid for the work you 'did' and nothing more!

    And while we are not employees of clients the same principle applies with this scenario ... IMO it sounds like the provider did not properly interview the client to determine that they could meet the kids needs prior to committing by asking questions such as has child has been left with others prior and how do they manage, has the child ever slept in a bed other than their own and is the child could self soothe to sleep or how is sleep time handled or how does the child manage with 'waiting' for needs to be met if the adult is busy with something aka has the child mastered 'delayed gratification' and can wait for needs to be met without screaming their little noodle off right away for every little thing and so forth .... IMO failure to properly interview the client to find out their parenting style and values in a world where there are a 1000 different ways of 'normal' and preparing a child for being away from a parent, failure to have policies in place that support a transition to set the child up for success and so forth are the BUSINESSES job as well as the parents when seeking childcare specially if the business is going to later use them as grounds for termination and keeping the deposit .... aka you do not get to say you are terminating a client because they should have 'better prepared by starting part time' if you do not have a policy in place that STATES THIS that the client than ignored to everyone's detriment .... so since the business made a poor choice and has decided to QUIT there should be no question of the deposit being refunded since it is the business who is breaking the arrangement because they cannot 'cope' with the kid after all!
    Children construct their own intelligence. The adult must provide activities and context, but most of all must be able to listen. Children need proof that adults believe in them. Their three great desires are to be listened to, to understand, and to demonstrate that they are exactly what we expect."
    Loris Malaguzzi

  3. #13
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    That's sad and sucks that you're now last minute trying to find another place. BUT, based on all that, I don't think that it was the best place for your son. Transition for an 11 month old can definitely take more than a week. And hopefully you can find someone that is willing to let you go in for a bit to make the transition easier. I know that for a daycare provider this can throw off all the others and may create chaos, but that's part of what we have to do to make baby's transition easier. I have found it helpful to let mom in for short periods of time for baby to see that it is a safe happy place. Too long can cause other problems, but a few times for a short period can be helpful.

    With you next place, try to find out off the bat how they help transitioning and if they allow your presence...

    Good luck. I'm sure the right daycare is out there somewhere!

  4. #14
    Euphoric !
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    You don't mention if this is a private daycare home or a daycare centre. If it is a daycare centre you might have some luck with a complaint to the BBB or the ministry office that oversees daycare centres. If it is a private home you might have some luck if you contacted your city representative for your area as they don't like it when any business private or otherwise gives the area a bad name. Just the act of having someone in authority involved might help them to do the right thing and return the money.

    Having some sort of legal representation send them a registered letter requesting the return of the money would also help. Small claims court, legal aid, etc might be able to advise you.

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  6. #15
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    She absolutely should refund your money. That's rediculous. I hope you don't take this the wrong way as the spirit of my post is with a good heart. Most likely she is terming YOU rather than the baby. Your solution to accompany the child to help get him used to the setting is something that IME doesn't work at all. It is a parents go to solution but it wouldn't matter a bit whether you are there or not. You can't help him adjust to being away from you by being with him. You believe he needs to get used to the environment and at his age it's not the environment that is the issue. It's leaving one to one care from a parent who hasn't had anything to really DO but care for him. THAT'S the adjustment. The environment culture shock IS being in a group where one individuals child's needs do not supercede the happiness of the adults, the ease of the adults work, the maintaining of the property and non direct care tasks, the providers children, and the other attending children.

    The new child is in a place where many many factors supercede their individual happiness A new parent thinks about their OWN child as being the top of the heap when in reality they are not and should not be. It's GROUP care with adults, their own kids, property, and other kids. The new child is one of the "other kids"... no more... no less.... one of many.

    So your solution of you attending either during the week or on weekends would take your child's care or position in that group to the top of the group... above what the adults want... above what's best for the other kids... above the group.

    If you would have offered to work with them to have your child be group ready you would have most likely had a completely different response. Having the child be ready for a group essentially means that the child becomes accostomed to their needs being met equally with the needs of the other kids and most importantly... what works for the caregivers. If they aint happy aint nobody happy.

    This means that he can NOT have his own adult. This means he needs to be able to self entertain, self soothe, and be able to delay his WANTS to when the group allows for him to have his wants met. If you want him to be successful in the next arrangement work on these things:

    He needs to be put to bed wide awake and be able to get himself to sleep without the aid of ANY adult intervention. He should be able to stay asleep despite extraneous noise going on around him.

    He needs to be able to self entertain. When he's on the floor his interest need to be the space and the toys NOT creating chaos to score himself an adult to one to one him. If he can independently play without an adult interacting with him that will go a long long way in his adjustment.

    He needs to be able to feed himself bits and hold his own bottle or cup.

    He needs to be calm when other children are having a rough time and not turn that rough time into something that needs to happen to him.

    What you should expect is that he is fed, changed, giving lovins, SUPERVISED, and has good long naps twice a day. You should not expect the adults to respond to his crying with an adult who will devote themselves get him to stop crying. Start at home looking at when he is crying and how you respond. If he is crying because he is hungry, needs changed, or needs some love... then by all means do what he needs to satisfy his NEEDS. If he is crying because he wants an adult one to oneing him nearly every minute to maintain his minute to minute happiness... then he will be profoundly unhappy in a group.

    They quit because of his crying. It's your job to work with him to be happy during non essential care times without crying. Give him the experience at home of WAITING for his wants to be met, self sootheing when he is perfectly fine but just WANTS one to one, self feeding, and going to bed WIDE awake and putting himself to sleep. This means no rocking, walking, or co-sleeping. Just put into bed with a clean diaper, full belly, and a quick snuggle. Also work on him taking FULL naps... no cat naps. He should be sleeping about an hour and a half in the morning and a two and a half hour nap in the afternoon. If he wakes up in the middle of it check on him but don't allow him to get up. Those two times of day are essential for most child care providers to have babies resting so that they can provide what they need during awake times... and don't have tired cranky kids.

    This is what MOST providers want with a newbie baby/one year old. If you want him to jell into a group quickly THESE are the things that will keep you from going thru this again. Remember that group care means it's not about YOUR baby. Get him ready to make it in a group and think about what you are doing at home that if you had six other kids... could you do it. If you couldn't pull it off then they won't be able to either. Think GROUP and start working towards that.
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  8. #16
    Euphoric ! kidlove's Avatar
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    I agree Reggio, I personally would have given the deposit back to the client under the fact: I couldn't/didn't want to, follow through with care. I run my Day Care on morals first.....always. I would be willing to oversee any contract terms given the fact that I couldn't deal with the child's crying. (i however, WOULD give that baby more than a week to adjust, because I can handle it!) It's a catch 22 in this situation.....given the fact that we are all running a business first and foremost, any time a client leaves our care (especially under somewhat negative circumstances) I try and keep it as smooth as possible, concidering "bad" word of mouth travels 10 times faster than good. Hope you can come to some sort of terms with this provider. There are times to be "money-minded" (late fees/following general rules of contract, payment on time and such) and there are times to consider keeping "good face" is worth more than the cash. I would def want a client to leave on good terms in this situation....."I'm sorry, I can't deal with the crying every day, it adds too much stress to the entire household, the kids and I both, but I will give your deposit back due to the fact I chose to cancel care and put you at such an inconvenience, I do apologize and wish you and your son the best of luck. Take care." this way, I would imagine a parent would be less likely to be so upset, and see the goodness in you, understanding that you were honest (although inconveniant) but gave the deposit back...as you should.

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  10. #17
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    I can understand your frustration. I am a daycare provider and i have a new child in my care who was crying all day in the beginning and it does affect the other children and can be quite stressful. I perservered and the crying did stop after the first week. We are still struggling with naptime and i can honestly tell you that it is very frustrating on our end because naptime is our only down time. I dont think that she gave your child a fair amount of time to transition and clearly doesnt have the patience to work with you to get your child comfortable in her care. In my experience, your staying at the daycare to help your child transition would not have made things any better, it only would have delayed what is going on now. I think you should consider this a blessing in disguise because if she doesnt have the patience to get through this then you will only have more issues in future. As for your deposit, if she is not will to provide care for the last 2 weeks which is what your deposit is for then she should be refunding it to you. I know you probably dont want him there for 2 more weeks and she probably know that so i would call her bluff. there are lots of great providers, if you put in the time, you can find someone in a short time. good luck
    Quote Originally Posted by test View Post
    I put my child to a daycare when he was 11 months old last monday. I put him 10 days before I join my office back.
    He was directly taken from the stroller and the caregiver would want me to do a quick drop off.He was crying fully.I will be asked to take him back home to make him sleep,since he kept crying during the nap time too.I was asking the caregiver permission so that I can spend some time with him there,so that he transitions soon and But the caregiver said it was not their policy during the daycare hours.I still insisted that I will atleast spend some time with him in the week end.She said she was busy in the week end and she will think about a time and said ok..I also insisted her to try other options to retain him there during nap time,cos,I wont be able to do that once I join back to work.
    On day 5,last friday,my caregiver sent an email to seek other childcare options..
    The reason I was told is he was crying continuosly.They did everything to make him happy and dint work..
    I was asking for refund..But she is hesitating to give the deposit amount back.
    I did signed an agreement with them which stated,
    "there is a non refundable deposit of 2 weeks fees and would be applied to his last weeks of care. "
    It also stated that" the child care provider can terminate the contract if the child's behaviour is uncontrollable/destructive,violent or threatening to the other children or staff."
    The caregiver describes my son's crying and screaming was extremely uncontrollable. They have tried everything, even allowing his own toys to the daycare and nothing worked. When my sons there, his crying and screaming made the other children upset. Sometimes, he wouldn't even let the caregiver change his diaper or hold him because he would kick and scream.

    I am not happy cos..5 days is not enough for a baby to transition and I atleast want my deposit amount back..Pls guide..

  11. #18
    Euphoric !
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    Yes, you should definitely get your deposit back as long as you have paid for the one week of care your son attended. The deposit is for the last two weeks of care and you are now not able to use this service. While one week is not enough time, perhaps this provider decided it was just more than she was able/willing to take on since he is likely to take weeks to settle in even once he starts making progress (I am on week 4 with one like this and believe me, I have considered terminating as well...but since he is progressing, I hang in there). You definitely don't want a provider reaching her breaking point with your child! I also agree with what Daycarewhisperer said...you need to look at what you can do on your side to help your son be more prepared for group care. As parents (I have young kids too and have had the oldest two in daycare before), we don't really have any idea what it is like to care for 5-6 small children effectively and have the day go smoothly...we don't always know what to do in order to make it easier on our child. I wish someone had given me advice on how to prepare my kids, as I had no idea either! When you are home with one baby, naturally, you tend to dote on him...but it makes it so hard for the little one once they start daycare. And please discuss all of this with any future prospective providers so you know and they know what you/they are getting into.

  12. #19
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    This is a horrible situation. With this providers explanation of policies they could take several new infants and terminate after a week.

    I had one client (out of the tons of clients I've interviewed) aske me where my limits are. At what point do I callt he parents to pick up. When is the crying too much. And I thought this was the best question a client could ask me. It really made me think about what my limits were and it held me accountable when I did take on the child.

    I expect a 12 months old child to cry for days... sometimes weeks when they start out. I expect them to scream for 2 straight hours when I place them in a new bed with new smells and different sounds and light from home. I prepare for that by placing my existing kids in different rooms, napping at different times. etc...

    I would never send a child home for crying uncontrollably unless they child was making themselves sick over it. ( I don't do throw up very well )

    This obviously is not a provider who wants to transition new children into care. They want children ready to go... the reality is... they are not always ready to go.

    I'm sorry you have to fight for your money back. Obviously not a very good business woman. And these stories make it even harder for good providers to ask for deposits. Clients get hesitant after they hear back experiances. It's really too bad.

    I hope it all works out and you find a better provider then this one.

  13. #20
    Euphoric ! Dreamalittledream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daycarewhisperer View Post
    .... If you couldn't pull it off then they won't be able to either. Think GROUP and start working towards that.
    That whole email was fantastic advice. May I borrow your advice to create a checklist for parents of my websites coming in?
    Children are great imitators.
    So give them something great to imitate.

    ~Anonymous~

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