Almost...

[BrightEyes]

So...I decided after receiving many phone calls that perhaps I would do before and after school after all for the kindergarten age. I spoke with a woman today, very kind, but I was told that she has offers of $25/day. I told her I would charge my regular full-time fee because their child would be with me for 5+ hrs/day, 5 days a week. She thought this was a big difference, which I understand...technic ally it is. But if you think about the hrs, having to go out to the bus, educational program, snack and lunch, art supplies, insurance, etc (I could go into way more detail like water, electricity, toiletries, etc) it makes sense to still charge the full-time fees.

I have to be honest, it was really disappointing to hear. I was really looking forward to meeting with this family.

Maybe they will change their mind.

But probably not....I understand how important money is and if you can save then why not? But wow....$25....in my area? If I could make it worth while for that price then sure....but I really can't

[Crayola kiddies]

In my contract before and after school is a maximum of 2 hours on either end of the day. What you are describing would fall under half days which I dont offer. My before and after rate is $25/day but you have to take both if you want just one or the other then it's 15/day.

[mimi]

LittleFeet (I wish I could have that name, unfortunately I am a size 11) my parttime rate (up to 51/2 hours) is $28.00 so I don't find the $25.00 unreasonable. I charge $40.00 for a f/d. What is your area norm?

[BrightEyes]

Sorry, I should have been more clear....the child would be in school 3hrs, not the new full-day kindergarten.

mimi, maybe I am wrong about the rate? I know my full-time rate is within norm....but I assumed b/a would be normal for $25-$28 as you say....but not kindergarten where they are in school for only 3hrs per day...

I just can't wrap it around my head.... $25, the eat an AM snack, lunch, and after school snack (kindergarteners eat a good amount)....all healthy and homemade. then there is the cost for art supplies which would be used daily because I have an educational program (kindergarteners usually love to make crafts so would most likely use up a lot of the supplies)... plus it would be taking up a full-time spot....

Maybe I should have agreed to it?? I will seriously have to think this one over....and over...and over... lol

[BrightEyes]

I am quoting Reggio from another post:

"Nope ~ I do not put myself on sale and I do not want to have to work with a client who would expect me to either ... I offer a valuable service at a FAIR price in order to make a viable wage after all my expenses are paid!

I focus on the 'service' that they will get in my program as a deciding factor in going with me verses a 'cheaper' option to help clients ensure they are comparing apples to apples in regards to fees .... if all you want it a place your child can spend the day and ideally return home in one piece at the end of the day than by all means let the $$ be the deciding factor ... however there is a reason I charge what I do cause I could not afford to offer the SERVICES I do at the cheap rate others charge ... and I would not feel as passionate or proud of my program if I had to 'cut' those services to the children in order to compete with 'cheaper' childcare options.

I budget a lot for groceries so I can buy variety of fresh fruits and veggies and where possible organically grown, I cook and bake from scratch almost all our food because eating healthy is a strong value of mine ~ it builds the foundation for the brain and body and immunity and therefore enhances early learning by reducing illness and keeping children 'primed' for explorations cause they feel good inside and out and I cannot feed the children 'less' than I would be feeding my own family by cutting corners here so I can charge clients 'less' ... they either value nutrition with me and are willing to 'invest more' in fees to get it or they are free to go find a program model where feeding kids on a tighter budget is viable for them. I budget / spend about $7.50 a day per child for grocery supplies.

I budget a lot for creative art / sensory supplies because I am passionate about creative exploration art find exploring mediums relaxing and calming for the children and it passes our time 'engaged' so not dealing with stress and behaviors ... I spend on average about $2.50 a day per child on 'creative art / sensory' and it is money well spent as a lot of 'learning' is mastered through this exploration.

I invested in high quality educational materials in my program the past several years ~ and while this is getting to be 'less' needed I have been spending on average the past 5 years about $2.50 a day per child on toys and equipment for the program as I do not have kids of my own so have to stock my playroom from scratch ~ so hopefully one day this is money that can be reduced and redirected back to my 'wages' but in the meantime part of the investment of getting a strong business going!

Field trips and outings are a vital part of our program as well which comes with increased cost of vehicle, entrance fees and other expenses and I budget/spend $.50 a day per child for field trips

I budget both time and money for 'documenting' children's learning and accomplishments in the program because I find that when children can see themselves as valued learners and participants in the program because their work is celebrated and put on display both here and than at home through my parent website portal than they spend more time engaged in active learning so again this in an investment in me having calm engaged days that leave me stress free I spend about $0.50 a day per child on documentation expenses.

So right there that is $13.50 a day / child in expenses ... I still have to pay for my business insurance, advertizing, increased expense for maintenance and upkeep of the home and playroom due to the daycare, shared expenses of increases to my gas and hydro, office and administration expenses for paperwork, vehicle expenses for increased shopping and errands daycare takes up and so forth ... for the sake of arguement lets say that those costs average for me another $1.50 a day / child ... so $15 a day of what I charge clients is EXPENSE related.

So leaving out those 'additional' expenses and just going on the 'staples' of my program if I only charged $20-25 a day for my services that would leave me $5.00 - $10.00 in WAGES x 5 children if I am blessed to constantly be full so a daily wage of $25.00 $50.00 ... broken down into an hourly rate I woujld be making $2.50 or $5.00 an hour .... seriously for the amount of work this can be is that a VIABLE wage to stay passionate about home childcare and engaging children?

I charge $35.00 a day to my clients because that leaves me a income of $20 a child x 5 children if I am blessed to be FULL all the time ... so that is an after expenses income of $100 a day and an whopping hourly wage of $10/hour ... if the rest of the world deserves to make at least 'minimum wage' do we not deserve that as well considering the valuable service we provide??? "

When I look at it from this point of view....that would leave me with $10/day.....

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yup this is why I do not offer BA school programs - I am here working migt as well have full time child and full pay ... at such a time as I want to work part time I might consider BA program children but they would be ALL that age so I could have true free time!

[Monday 2 Friday Mama]

At the risk of repeating all the good advice offered by the ladies above, I think what it comes down to is everyone crunching their own numbers. As long as the market rate for B/A Care stays as low as it currently is, I (personally) won't be able to afford to offer it. Legally, a space is considered a space - whether it is occupied by a full time child or a BA school child. I need my numbers to work in order to run my program - if everyone was here part time I couldn't afford all the things that make my program good - nutritious food, new toys on a regular basis, crafts and other special experiences etc. I've only cared for one kindergarten child, and it was the same situation that you're in. The little boy attended A.M. kindergarten and I was caring for him from 10:30 A.M. (at the bus stop) until 5:15. The Mum pushed really hard for a reduced rate - I'm so glad that I stuck to my guns and made her pay a full days rate. That age is really tough - they expect to be entertained non-stop - I've worked in liscenced daycare centres so I like to think I'm pretty good at coming up with weekly themes and cool crafts and stuff. Stick to your guns and try not to dwell on this one "missed" client - hopefully, there's another one out there who is a better fit, and who won't be nickle and diming you to death.

[playfelt]

One of the reasons I stopped offering kindergarten care was the parents thinking that now that their child was in school half days that they should only pay half fees. Trying to explain to them the difference was hard. I usually asked that they go in the afternoon as that is naptime at daycare so the least fun for them and to explain it means child is here for all of morning, crafts, snacks, etc. then lunch and then gone for the same two hours the little ones are sleeping and then back for snack and play till hometime so the cost to me is the same. PLUS then add in that that parent expected me to take the child to and from school meaning 4 trips with the little ones so when you add in travel time there is only about an hour and a half that I wasn't either responsible for or doing something because of (getting little ones up and walking back to school to be there when school finished). While they would get indignant they did see my point - just not want to pay the amount.

[BrightEyes]

Thanks everyone. All very good points.

playfelt, that's basically this exact case...the only difference is that I would have had to drag them out to the bus stop instead of walking to the school, but still the same thing when you have to dress them up and walk in -40, snowy, icy, weather!

I will continue to stick to my full fee policy and if parents don't want to pay it I will just have to wait for a younger child to fill the spot.

[Inspired by Reggio]

Yup and this is why there is such a demand for full day kindergarten and before and after school care .... because society is not willing to INVEST in it to make it worth while for providers to offer it and therefore it is scare to find those who are willing to do more work for LESS money

IMO a half day or b and a school age care is MORE WORK in the long run even though they are here 'less time' during the day .... I would rather have a child here the full 9 hours straight than have to be regulated by someones schedule rushing through routines and getting them dressed and out the door with the stress of being 'on time' or WORSE having to drag sleeping children up out of bed to do school runs or out into inclement nasty weather honestly it is not any more 'work' to have 5 kids here consistently all day than to have 4 during the bulk of the day and 1 kid whose in school and therefore I am tied to that 'school schedule' ... nope in fact the only way that I would do wonky school schedules is if I would charge MORE for that age group than regular full time child to compensate for that PITA factor it creates