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  1. #1
    Starting to feel at home... angelina's Avatar
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    Service Rendered, but no payment? What to do?

    SOUTH KEYS AREA, OTTAWA, ON
    Some thoughts /advice needed/ or maybe you have similar experience...

    I have a client, whom i serve for 1 and 1/2 weeks, never paid me anything for the service. what to do?

    How come?

    I am private business daycare. my friend, her neighbor said she is looking for daycare for her 9 month son.

    At first, I thought, hmmmm---- i gave away my high chair and baby gates since i got all toddlers now. But well, neighbor is good. And i did not ask for deposit.

    She came in my house on Nov. 9th, friday - saying she needed confirmation of enrollment to her case worker, because she is full-time university student. She signed a contract right there and then for childcare from November 9th 2012 to jUNE 30, 2013. She ask for confirmation of enrollment which i issued to her right away.

    She called me the next day saying she will start his son officially on Nov. 19, 2012. I said that is fine.

    Nov 17, I have my ELECT training with CCPRN and then after the training, I bought free standing baby gate $119 at toys r us and new high chair.

    Sunday, Nov. 18, she came in with husband to bring playpen and food/diaper.
    She also requested to change the contract date to Nov. 19 until December 14, 2012 since she is done school by the dec. 14th, 2012 and she need only MON-THU as she is off FRIDAY. I said that is fine by me.
    No deposit required, just pay me every two weeks.

    Nov. 19, 2012 mom drop off baby -monday officicially started. good day
    nov. 20, 2012 mom drop off baby - tuesday good day, went to playgroup with baby.
    nov. 21, 2012 wed. - husband drop off baby. at 11 am as i was walking home from park, mom called if i got the baby. yes, I do.

    she said she is at police station filing a report, her hubby beat her up. don't give baby to dad.

    i said i have no right to keep baby from dad. since she is at police station, i said come over as fast as you can, give me copy of police report, or at least some legal documents saying dad cannot get baby.

    She did not show up, so the dad came back at 2:30pm. he said he got off work early, so i let him come in to dress his own son, as i was slicing fruits for afternoon snacks. He was fine, we chat about the weather and he left after 10 minutes. I then texted the mom, that her son is pick up by her husband.

    and she showed up my door, yelling that i should not have given her son to dad. I said where is police report? I cannot really hold a baby against the dad. the contract was signed as mr and mrs. and no custody dispute.

    i told her i have no legal right to hold her baby against the father, unless their is restraining order or court mandate.

    by thursday, the baby was absent in my care. she demanded i change our contract to cancel father. but i cannot just change a contract like that. and i give her 3 options:
    1. keep contract as it is until they(husband/wife) have agreement
    2. change contract by court documents (RO or same document)
    3. keep your son with you until you resolve your conflictt with husband.

    are their any options i can offer???

    by monday nov. 26th, baby is back in my care.
    by tuesday, nov. 27th, she drop off the baby and said she will interview a caregiver within the area. she said, at least the new caregiver, her husband do not know the address.

    wed. nov 28th, 2012 she text me at 6:45 am asking me to prepare his baby stuff, as she will switch caregiver and need them.

    I ask for payment.

    She said she had no money, no check, and want all her stuff. she said ask for payment from husband.
    She showed up at my door, yelling. I said i need payment, and she said she will call police.

    I called the police when she said that, and requested for help, I need help getting rid of a yelling woman in my house. I explained to police that she does not pay me and she has to go out and wait for her stuff outside. The police said, just tell her to go out, and it is like a civil dispute and it is not police matter. [I keep myself compose, and i thought to myself " it will be soon if i lose my patience and drag her out of my house"].

    She called police, and she get same answer. She has to get out of my house, and wait there. I got no choice but gave her all her stuff.

    And i spend almost $200 for a brand new free standing gate and high chair /{okay thats part of business}/

    So i called the husband after she left and told him that his son is no longer in my care. He told me the wife was jailed overnight on wednesday, nov 21, 2012 for assaulting him. [ i said to myself, "no wonder she cannot produce a copy of the police report, if she was really beaten up"]. so they are fighting, don't know who is telling the truth.

    Blah, but i just need to get paid for a service rendered.

    I hope the next caregiver ask for a deposit, anyone private in south keys area, please do ask for deposit for your protection. I did not ask deposit since she is neighbor [ okay - bad idea]

    what else can i do?

    report her as non paying client to where?


    report her to police as a woman who yelled at me for no reason and i felt intimidated by her demands?

    do i report her to CAS as a woman who ask for Confirmation of Enrollment for Nov. 9, 2012 - June 30, 2013 and withdraw his son within 8 days?
    [from the husband, he said the CAS was called on the wife because of the assault case against him and her step son]

    or totally forget about her?

    Do i have a duty to inform caregivers in the area of this non-paying client?


    thanks.
    angie
    If they whine, give them cheese. If they're not hugable, hug yourself. (me)

  2. #2
    Euphoric ! Inspired by Reggio's Avatar
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    Wow so very sorry you are going through this ~ sadly it is stories like this are the reason you must ALWAYS ask for a deposit, you must ALWAYS get paid in advance of care because the sad reality is that those who plead with you to WAIVE that practice are the ones who are knowing on some level that they need this option to do this available to them ~ they are flakey and do not want to be tied to any financial responsibility .... and sadly clients like this do not wear a 'sign' that says they will so the only way to protect yourself is to assume that ANY client has the potential to do this to you and put strict payment policies in place to protect yourself.

    The other sad this is that because we are typically the 'nuturer' types who always want to see the best in the people my bet is that every single one of us has had to learn this lesson the hard way by getting 'burnt' at least once financially before we realize that when it comes to $$$ you do not give people the benefit of the doubt unless you can afford to get screwed and not care

    Your options are to either send her to 'collections' for the money owed or sue her in Civil court for your money ... both with cost you time and money so you have to decide if it is worth it on principle or not.

    Another thing I hate to say is that having worked in centre care it is not uncommon for someone women to 'fake' going to school and needing children in order to get more government assistance for themselves .... so they sign up for school courses, they sign up for daycare and get all the paper work in order for their government so the level of their assistance is changed to reflect those new costs and than they drop out of school and keep getting paid that 'extra' until they are caught and well sadly communication is not always good between social services with our patchwork systems ... some will keep sending their kids to daycare if it is being paid for 'directly' until the subsidy finds out and cuts the service on them but the others where they get paid and than have to pass it on to a private provider they just keep the kid home and keep the $$ they were given for daycare from the government .... it is a horrible way to screw the system and personally if you think she might be doing this in ANY way I would be reporting it for sure because there are people out there who truly NEED these services and manipulative entitled feeling people like this need to be accountable for ruining those services for others
    Children construct their own intelligence. The adult must provide activities and context, but most of all must be able to listen. Children need proof that adults believe in them. Their three great desires are to be listened to, to understand, and to demonstrate that they are exactly what we expect."
    Loris Malaguzzi

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  4. #3
    Starting to feel at home...
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    Wow! That does not sounds like fun
    I would get my lawyer to send her a letter of intent. You could also make one yourself. Then send it registered mail. You will likely get some sort of reaction out of her then.

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  6. #4
    Euphoric ! mimi's Avatar
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    I agree with Reggio. I would report her. Who was the person left in need who had to go on a waiting list because of her? You could send her a registered letter yourself demanding payment, however, do you really think she will respond? I would just ensure in the future to get a deposit before care starts.

  7. #5
    Outgoing DisneyPrincess's Avatar
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    Yes this is definitely a good example as to why deposits are IMPORTANT !!! and also, why I don't take neighbours ... then it creates to weird conflicts when you live so close, you will always see her face (unless she moves to a new place... like prison lol). Oh please dont spend money for new baby stuff if you need !! If its like a gate I understand, but if you have no high chair and she was the only client with a baby, then she can bring you a high chair until you can find a second hand one for small price or even free.

    I would of been very suspicious with her right from the start : starting date, then cancelling, starting date, then cancelling... Once a contract is signed... they must pay from the first date in the contract to the end, unless giving a two weeks written notice of ending the agreement of service (might change that to four weeks though). Cause the worst part in this is, you have one less space available for one child for whom you could of had less problems and actually get paid for.

    Something I learning in the first year in this business, is sadly you can not be TOO nice with people. Listen, one daycare provider I know is dealing with one of her niece and its just as complicated as a stranger. It is not the children who are complicated (most of the time) its the parents Difference is, it is easier to be strict and demanding with a stranger then the neighbour or family member. Though even then, we tend to be nice and let go of some of our rules, especially when it comes to financial issues... but why do we do this to ourselves, we need money to survive too !!!

    Well that said, I was disputing with myself as to get my new clients to pay in advance or at the end of the week... and that was settled : pay in advance or no care, if they can't, well how are they gonna pay at the end of the week !?!

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  9. #6
    Euphoric ! bright sparks's Avatar
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    What a huge unfortunate mess. Unfortunatly I think this is something you are just going to have to learn from and let go. You will undoubtably spend substantially more trying to get your money from this family, but in reality you can't get blood from a stone. A deposit should always be taken regardless of who you are providing care to or who refers them. Without it, you are leaving yourself open to situations like this. It is a complete waste of time contacting the police as it isn't anything they can deal with. As for a lawyer, I'd save my money. The lawyer will initially write a letter but that's already going to run you $100 and this really isn't a case for a lawyer more for small claims court which again is a lot of money, time and paperwork.

    If there is a daycare providers association in your area that you can inform of this lady then I would definitely say do that. The more people who are aware of this family the better to prevent this from happening to others. I would also let Child and family services know. I don't think theres anything they can actually do, but if they have the incident on file and their names come up again it will help the case.

    POOR CHILD!! I hope, I really do hope that someone can step into this situation and help the family. All they are doing are setting this child up for a rough time. Also, what on earth was your neighbour doing recommending this family to you??? Do they actually know them, or just know OF them??

    I am so sorry this happened to you. I wouldn't want to have to deal with it, but as far as payment goes, if at pick up on the first day I had no money, then I wouldn't have allowed them to owe me any more money by allowing them to come additional days until they had paid me.

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  11. #7
    Starting to feel at home... angelina's Avatar
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    so, even in centers, there are women who come with these cases/

    Reggio, I think you are on to something. This lady has 3 kids, from different fathers - and my gut feeling was this is her business enterprise (sad to say that word).

    So they enroll at school, at daycare, then get the money? Very sad hear this. Now, I understand why she got Certificate of Enrollment for one school year.

    So, do I send a letter to U of Ottawa Financial Aid Office to tell them that she has withdrawn her son from my care, so they cancel whatever money they gave her? ( i given her
    confirmation of enrollment
    to my daycare from nov. 9, 2012 to june 30, 2013 - so they will give her that money for daycare unless I sent a letter that she canceled on the daycare arrangement, correct?)


    mimi: I am starting to ask questions around, and base on the response, she is trouble in the corner. cops seen in her house couple of times, drunk and fights that gets too loud. I guess this is not decent person, more of like a "trashy" (those people who fight with you to avoid paying what they owe you). Sometimes, we get decent, will mannered clients. This one looks like the odd and not civilized yet.
    If they whine, give them cheese. If they're not hugable, hug yourself. (me)

  12. #8
    Starting to feel at home... angelina's Avatar
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    BTW ladies, the child is adorable and lovable, my husband fall in love with him. no separation nxiety whatsoever, rare for a 9 month old. my neighbor/friend apologize, she KNOW of them, not really close to them.

    she comments that the 8 hours the baby is here, that is probably the most stable and loving environment he got. she commented and sincerely apologize. prior nannies come to her house and care for the child, like $11 an hours,so she thought she can afford $40 a day.

    lesson learned: deposit please or no care. period.
    If they whine, give them cheese. If they're not hugable, hug yourself. (me)

  13. #9
    Euphoric ! mimi's Avatar
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    It's hard learning these lessons the hard way. That is why I have benefited from this forum and everyone relating their good/bad experiences. We are always learning so don't beat yourself up on wanting to be there for the child despite the mom's red flags. I've done it and won't do it again either. I also would NEVER take a neighbors child. We have new neighbors and the mom said when she goes back to work (won't happen) she would like me to take care of her son. I told her I don't mix business with people I would like to enjoy a personal relationship with.

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  15. #10
    Starting to feel at home... angelina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bright sparks View Post
    What a huge unfortunate mess. Unfortunatly I think this is something you are just going to have to learn from and let go. You will undoubtably spend substantially more trying to get your money from this family, but in reality you can't get blood from a stone. A deposit should always be taken regardless of who you are providing care to or who refers them. Without it, you are leaving yourself open to situations like this. It is a complete waste of time contacting the police as it isn't anything they can deal with. As for a lawyer, I'd save my money. The lawyer will initially write a letter but that's already going to run you $100 and this really isn't a case for a lawyer more for small claims court which again is a lot of money, time and paperwork.

    If there is a daycare providers association in your area that you can inform of this lady then I would definitely say do that. The more people who are aware of this family the better to prevent this from happening to others. I would also let Child and family services know. I don't think theres anything they can actually do, but if they have the incident on file and their names come up again it will help the case.

    POOR CHILD!! I hope, I really do hope that someone can step into this situation and help the family. All they are doing are setting this child up for a rough time. Also, what on earth was your neighbour doing recommending this family to you??? Do they actually know them, or just know OF them??

    I am so sorry this happened to you. I wouldn't want to have to deal with it, but as far as payment goes, if at pick up on the first day I had no money, then I wouldn't have allowed them to owe me any more money by allowing them to come additional days until they had paid me.
    thanks for this tip. so those that are asking WAIVED, need to pay me daily. that is fair for me, because i really do have neighbors who ask for deposit waived.

    angie
    If they whine, give them cheese. If they're not hugable, hug yourself. (me)

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