Losing kids to pre-school ugh !! JUst venting :)

[Momof4]

Angelina, you can only have 5 children who aren't your own at any one time in your home no matter how many hours they are there. You can't have more than 5 children ever in Ontario, simple. As long as you aren't with an agency and are private you can have any ages that you like.

[angelina]

Angelina, you can only have 5 children who aren't your own at any one time in your home no matter how many hours they are there. You can't have more than 5 children ever in Ontario, simple. As long as you aren't with an agency and are private you can have any ages that you like.

Thank you Momof4.

This is now, we can take 5, as per DNA.

We sort of discuss the Audette inquest, and there is a jury recommendation to lower the ratio of children in home daycare. How much lower are they taking about? Was it strictly recommending how many part time or full time?

[Inspired by Reggio]

Anyone have any idea what are the 16 recommendations of the jury on the inquest? I was looking where it is, but none I can find.

Have not see the full list but this is the most detailed one I have read

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...ons-today.html

Registration recommended

The jury made a number of recommendations concerning unlicensed day cares, including that the ratio of adults to children should be same as for licensed daycares. Licensed home daycare providers can only have five children, including their own children, in the home.

The jury also recommended that all daycares, regardless of license, be registered, and that the Day Nurseries Act be amended to allow for unannounced safety inspections of registered daycares.

The jury also recommended private daycare providers be certified as trained and that there be no pools at home-based daycares. The Ministry of Education director for eastern Ontario had already prohibited pools in licensed home day cares in the region following a 2011 coroner's report on drownings in the province.


Other recommendations include:

• Asking the Ministry of Education to provide more public information on differences between home-based daycares and regulated daycares.
• Requiring municipalities to enact pool enclosure bylaws.
• Ensuring pool gates be self-locking, and establishing an inspection process to make sure.
• Requiring backyard pools to be supervised at all times when a child is in the pool.
• Asking realtors to distribute pool safety info to homebuyers buying homes with pools.

The recommendations of the inquest jury are not binding.

Jeremie's father Alain said after the inquest he hoped the recommendation might prevent a tragedy like what happened to his son in the future.

[Inspired by Reggio]

....How much lower are they taking about? Was it strictly recommending how many part time or full time?

They are basically talking about requiring the rules to be the SAME regardless if you are with an agency or a private providers .... so basically your OWN to be counted in your five and that even private would have to follow the rules about the age mix allowed ... the reality is this has been being discussed since back in 2008 when I was still with my agency so well before this poor boy drowned .... the 'inequity' between private and regulated care has been part of the round table discussions on how to promote more providers to choose to be with a licensed agency and the barriers that are seen ... as the rules currently in place actually promote 'unregulated' as a more financially appealing option because you do not have to count your own children and can choose whatever age groups you feel able to serve .... which is why there are more unregulated providers and with the introduction of 'full day early learning' here in Ontario even more regulated providers have had to jump ship to 'private' in order to make a viable income because the pool of children over the age of 3 to fill the remaining spaces has shrunk considerably!

[Serendipity]

Do any of you have a degree in early childhood? Just wondering if it is the norm to have a degree or not in your area.

As a parent, I would prefer my child care provider to have a secondary degree in early childhood. It isn't just about the love, supervision and play time. I think really knowing and understanding child development is just as important. Just because someone is a mom or has kids, doesn't mean they are equipped to care for kids.

Experience is defintely a huge role in being a provider but education is also important.

As a parent who has had to search for a good provider for my child, I believe it is my business whether or not the provider I choose has a secondary degree or not.

[Inspired by Reggio]

I am a registered ECE Serendipity ...and while I agree that experience and firm understanding of child development is important to the quality of care as we learn as we perfect our programs ... I do feel you can acquire th knowledge and skills to provide quality child care that without having your ECE or post secondary education... plus I have peers with thier ECE who are not particularly best practice cause they do not have skills to transfer theory into practice .... some people are just naturals at providing care to others!

[angelina]

They are basically talking about requiring the rules to be the SAME regardless if you are with an agency or a private providers .... so basically your OWN to be counted in your five and that even private would have to follow the rules about the age mix allowed ... the reality is this has been being discussed since back in 2008 when I was still with my agency so well before this poor boy drowned .... the 'inequity' between private and regulated care has been part of the round table discussions on how to promote more providers to choose to be with a licensed agency and the barriers that are seen ... as the rules currently in place actually promote 'unregulated' as a more financially appealing option because you do not have to count your own children and can choose whatever age groups you feel able to serve .... which is why there are more unregulated providers and with the introduction of 'full day early learning' here in Ontario even more regulated providers have had to jump ship to 'private' in order to make a viable income because the pool of children over the age of 3 to fill the remaining spaces has shrunk considerably!

I agree, we are losing the 4 year old in the area due to full day kindergarten, so its a tough call between staying in business or find livelihood somewhere else.

Even my own toddlers do no count, (private daycares), I still count them on the 5, because the liability insurance only covers 5 children in my house under the age of 10. For insurance purposes, your own child count.

That is why i see many daycare with agency in my area switch to private - to allow more mix to the group - as our 4 year old are gone. (most catholic and public have full day for our 4 year old)

How is it in your area Reggio? Are all schools at full day for year old or it is still half day?

angie

[Inspired by Reggio]

Still a mix here with the full day ... so some still need alternate days or 1/2 days ...IMO to keep home Childcare viable they will either have to alter the restrictions on age mixes OR fees for the business will go up to make it viable for only have 3 kids in care ... so our fees would end up be same as centre with it being $200-250 a week ...sure the public will love that

[angelina]

Do any of you have a degree in early childhood? Just wondering if it is the norm to have a degree or not in your area.

As a parent, I would prefer my child care provider to have a secondary degree in early childhood. It isn't just about the love, supervision and play time. I think really knowing and understanding child development is just as important. Just because someone is a mom or has kids, doesn't mean they are equipped to care for kids.

Experience is defintely a huge role in being a provider but education is also important.

As a parent who has had to search for a good provider for my child, I believe it is my business whether or not the provider I choose has a secondary degree or not.

I do not have degree in early childhood education, but I have a Bachelors Degree in Education and undergraduate in Aerospace Engineering (Carleton U).

I undergone many training along the way in the last 12 years, as private nanny, as babysitter, as daycare worker, as a mom.

Even with my degree, I do not think I would be able to translate all the theory into practice if I was not truly interested in children in general. I know some daycare center staff, that are "just there"....and I do not sense they would love to continue working with children.

A provider could show you curriculum, and programming by the book [Montessori trained] and followed stimulating activities base on their developmental skills, but if she lack the special element which is love for children, everything else will go downhill. You will sense that when your child come to this provider, your own child can feel if this a home environment she wanted to be.

I'd say, some providers are born for this job and nurtured and develop that sense of holistic approach to running a business and providing early education to children through play.
Some gain the perspective through formal education, some through lifetime experience.
Whether by formal education or lifetime experience, to my eyes, they can take over my job.

Anyone who has lifetime experience in the daycare business always attend trainings and update themselves with latest tools and theory to apply at your home business. I think even agencies send their daycare providers to trainings. Most caregivers even without theoretical training have initiative to bring their kids to libraries, OEYC playgroups with RECE who supervised structured time.

Around my area, I don't know any caregiver who have RECE. Few I know have Personal Support Worker Diploma, RPN, Developmental Service Worker, mom and grandmother.

Definitely, the home daycare is not for everyone. With the upcoming changes with the DNA (if implemented), I wonder how many more hoops we will endure to be deemed qualified to be the EARLIEST childhood educators.

BTW, does anyone read the ELECT document yet? What do you think of this framework? Throw the lesson plan away and start over?

[Serendipity]

I agree that through years of experience and a general interest in children is definitely a requirement for being able to provide greart care but it still doesn't mean that home daycare is best for kids once they reach the preschool age.
Children who are preschool age DO need an educated provider/teacher in order to teach them academics. Someone without the deeper understanding and knowledge from an ECE degree is not necessarily qualified to teach children the academic part of learning in comparison to a home daycare provider.
I would think THAT is the line of thinking used by parents when they pull their child from home care and enroll them in preschool.