Sleeping question

[gramma]

I've posted a few times about my nearly 15 month old non sleeper and the general consensus has been shorten morning nap or eliminate it so that she is good and tired for the afternoon. well, i tried doing no nap yesterday in the am and and she still only slept for 45min to an hour. I know that one day will not do it but ive tried it before as well and also shortening nap and nothing seemed to change the afternoon consistently. so this morning mom says shes been awake since just after 5am so there is no way she will last until afternoon with no nap so i put her upstairs at 9am and normally would have got her after 30 minutes but i got doing something and lost track of time (maybe because it was so quiet) that at 10:15 i bolted upstairs to wake them. my non sleeper was still sleeping but i woke her and brought her down. She had pooped during her nap which is what i believe normally wakes her but she was sound asleep at the 1 hour 15 minute mark which she has rarely done on any afternoon. So i'm wondering if its actually more sleep that she needs rather than less and that in the afternoon she is overtired and cant settle into a good sleep. she has always seemed tired at afternoon naptime but maybe shes actually overtired because we have been limiting the morning nap. im never sur how much she actually sleeps in the afternoon because sometimes i'm sure she asleep and then she'll be yelling then quiet for 1 minutes then talking to herself so i've always had to make an educated guess but this morning she was sound asleep. I also forgot to put on her sound machine this morning, is there any chance that the noise is affecting her sleep. maybe is she starts to stir the noise stops her from getting back to sleep. any thoughts.

[apples and bananas]

I have a little guy that consistently doesn't sleep well at night ( 15 months now ) I started him at just shy of 12 months. He was consistently getting a morning nap, but still would not sleep well in the afternoon. I started by giving him a 30 min at 8:30 - 9 And not letting him sleep past 9:30. Nothing changed for the afternoon. So, some mornings I just pushed through and didn't give him an am nap. ( I prefer to just have them on one nap anyways ) He would crawl up on me some mornings an dput himself to sleep for 15 min. LOL

Eventually the am nap wouldn't work and the pm nap was a nightmare so I buckled down and forced him on my schedule. It was a rough 8 weeks. I'm put him down with everyone else at noon and no matter how much crying he did, he didn't get out until 2:30 at the earliest.

Now... so many months later he actually sleeps for almost 3 hours. He fusses a bit in the middle but I ignore him and leave him up and get him at 3 - 3:30 and he's a happy little man.

The key was consistently leaving him there for the amount of time I needed him up there. I put him in the quietest room.... I put fans and other noise makers on in every one elses rooms and I didn't go up for anything!

The funny part is that he doesn't nap well at all at home!

Hang in there... force her on your schedule and eventually I'm sure she'll be awesome! Stick one road and stay with it.

[Crayola kiddies]

Well sleep begets sleep .... So maybe see how it goes this aft and if she sleeps longer then maybe that's what you heed to do till it doesn't work anymore ..... But I am with a& b and I just put my trouble sleeper in bed and he stays there till end of nap time regardless of how long he has been crying ..... They figure it out eventually

[bright sparks]

I think what I would do is when this child wakes in the afternoon, do not get her up. If you get her up then she doesnt have the opportunity to learn to self sooth and fall back to sleep. Nap time is also quiet time so if you have a 2 hour window that you require quiet from all your kiddies, then whether they are sleeping or not is irrelevent. They are still staying in their playpens or on their cots for quiet time. They still get to rest and you get your break also. If this little girl is being to disruptive then move her to another space where she won't disturb the others and let her self sooth. Whether she is whaling, sobbing, singing or talking, she needs to be left to learn to calm herself down. If she knows you will always cave in and get her, then you might not see her improve because she doesn't need to self sooth, you do it for her.

This can be hard on you if its difficult for you to switch off and ignore her. We all know the sound of a cry from a child that REALLY needs us, versus wanting attention from us. Sometimes this process is quick but it can also take a LONG time, but it has to be done. I would also try and get the parents on board as if they do the same at home then she will learn much quicker. If not, she will learn eventually what your rules are even at this young age. But the longer you leave it to enforce tough love to get her on your sleep schedule, the harder it will be for YOU.

Good Luck and the minute you feel like you might give in and get her up, come here and vent.

[gramma]

thanks everyone. Bright Sparks, I dont go in to her at all. I can usually tune it out or i put my headphones on and do my stuff but sometimes probably when i'm stressed out it just gets to me so I am constantly looking for a solution. Ultimately she needs the sleep so i want to find a way to get her on a good schedule. She is alone in my room which is as far away from the others as possible but she can be very loud. I have sound machines in each room but sometimes she still manages to wake the others. Its just been so inconsistent. as soon as I think something works it all changes. she is very pleasant even when she's tired from so little sleep. i'm all about consistency and i've probably changed methods too often with this one. Ive never had such a sleep problem and Ive had some difficult kids over the last 17 years. Thanks for all the support and i think i will stick to one plan and hopefully without the disruption from the holidays it will fall into place. Only problem is that in just under 2 months i am on vacation for 11 days and that might undo any progress.

[BrightEyes]

It may be that she needs more sleep but how much sleep does she usually get at night? I read your other posts yesterday but I forget if you had mentioned the length.

Children that age need 12-14hrs of sleep per day. So if she is sleeping 11+hrs at night then she may only need an hour or so nap during the entire day. My daughter is the same age, sleep 12+ hrs at night and only 45mins during the day.

Having said that, she can still have "quiet time" as others have said once she wakes up. Maybe put a cloth book in the playpen or hang it on the side so when she wakes up she has something "quiet" to do.

[gramma]

It may be that she needs more sleep but how much sleep does she usually get at night? I read your other posts yesterday but I forget if you had mentioned the length.

Children that age need 12-14hrs of sleep per day. So if she is sleeping 11+hrs at night then she may only need an hour or so nap during the entire day. My daughter is the same age, sleep 12+ hrs at night and only 45mins during the day.

Having said that, she can still have "quiet time" as others have said once she wakes up. Maybe put a cloth book in the playpen or hang it on the side so when she wakes up she has something "quiet" to do.

She doesnt have consistent nighly sleep either. She actually sleeps better during the day when she's slept for 11 hours. when she sleeps for 45 min or a hour in the afternoon, it is clear that she is still tired. You can see it in her eyes. Shes not miserable when she's tired but there is a definate change in behaviour so i feel that she needs more than an hour. On the odd days where she has slept for 2 hour or slightly more she is clearly rested and ready for the rest of the day. I'm stumped and worried that she will be the type not to nap in which case she will have to move to another daycare because naptime is required especially for kids this age and once a little older, quiet time. She is far too young to understand quiet rest time.

[Momof4]

I think you just got to the root of the problem Gramma. SHE DOESN'T HAVE CONSISTENT NIGHTLY SLEEP. I really believe that children need routine and it makes them healthy and happy. That's why, once they settle into daycare life they are so great with us. We follow daily routines and schedules. You really have to suggest to this family that they set up a bedtime routine and stick to it and give routine a try to see if things improve. I bet they will improve and I hope they thank you.

[gramma]

even after such a short time, i believe I have an honest relationship with this mom and bedtime is consistent as far as I know. I do know that since starting here her nighttime sleep has improved significantly according to mom. She is very appreciative of how well things have become at home although its still up and down with the difference being that they rarely if ever had any good nights at all. DCG has started waking between 5 and 5:45 and most often does not go back to sleep. Normally I can figure these things out but there is just no rhyme or reason to this little ones sleeping habits. I will ask mom tonight about bedtime and suggest perhaps a later bedtime depending on what time she goes down. I think that i am going to take the suggestion that i put a few toys into the playpen with her. she didtn sleep at all this afternoon and was yelling loudly so i assumed that she had pooped which is usually when she is really loud but she hadnt so i dont know what the problem was today. part of me wonders if i should put her with the other kids and maybe she would take comfort knowing that she isnt alone but i'm not sure that would be a good idea.