Biting and hitting

[Skysue]

I'm very curious as to the ages of children in your program? Also how many children have you terminated?

[daycarewhisperer]

I'm very curious as to the ages of children in your program? Also how many children have you terminated?

I have birth to five when they go to Kindy and I've terminated two families in 20 years. Neither over violence or behavior of the children but rather behavior of the parents.

[daycarewhisperer]

although I have NO room for biting in my program, I do stand back and allow children to work out their diferences (with in reason) on their own before I interfere. I dont often get two kids that down right hit or hurt one another, but every once in a while there is a push or grab of a toy and I will not remove the toy or seperate the children right away, I will stand back and see if they can work it out first, IF things go too far, I will intervene but ONLY if required. I want to give the children a chance to figure out their problems for themselves. If I model the appropriate behavior a time or two, "give the toy back, and appoligize" or "take a turn" or "say sorry and give a hug", I will stand back and observe the behavior when issues arise, and they usually work it out based on what example or suggestion had been set/made in the past.

I don't do these things. I don't do sorry or apologize. I don't let them work it out. I have the older seasoned kids model appropriate behavior. I don't stand back and observe when an issue arrises. I do limit the toys I have out to toys that have a proven track record of not being "fight" toys.

Here's an article I wrote about toy playing rules: http://www.daycare.com/nannyde/there...m#comment-1422

[Skysue]

Thats amazing! You must be very good at picking great kids. I took on a child last year that was extremely aggressive, the parents were in disbelief. It wasn't until the childs aunt did pick up one day to confess to me that she doesn't leave her 2 year old niece alone with her 3 year old son. She hurt him so bad once that he had to get stitches? She then told me that the Mom plays too rough with her daughter and bites her and laughs when she tries to bite back etc...

I was in so much shock that I terminated care a few weeks later. As this childs was a huge liability to my daycare.

I also should have listened to that little voice inside me that said red flag when I met the parents, I was more motivated to fill my space then hold out for an amazing family.

[daycarewhisperer]

Thats amazing! You must be very good at picking great kids.

Naw I get 9 of 10 of my enrollments as newborns. I wouldn't be able to select the right newborn. I do select the parents though. That definitely gives an edge.

I recently had a family where I took a 20 month old who had an older brother who is in our special needs preschool program. This program is for kids who have profound issues. His brothers issues that qualified for this intensive program (one adult per four kids... max of eight kids... one of the adults a licenced special needs teacher and an aide with a minimum of a two year degree) were speech and behavior.

The Mom begged me to take the four year old in the morning and on Wednesday. I had about three conferences with her before accepting him and required that I have full access to his school records and his teachers, bus drivers, and principal. After MUCH consideration I decided to give him a shot because he is an age mate to two of my little dudes who have been here from birth and his little brother was a doll.

I let them mom know that the no violence rules are in place whether he's special special or not. Not only can he not be physical here but if I see him being physical with her or her brother on my property he's OUT. One strike you are out.

He came for short days for a week or two and then all morning with full days Wednesday. There was NOTHING wrong with this kid. He never acted out a single time. After two weeks you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between him and the kids who have been here from birth with the exception of his low academic and speech skills. Behaviorally he went native immediately.

We were on him like white on rice for the first few weeks and did micro correcting... spending a lot of time letting him know what's up and what we expected. Within a couple of weeks he was walking the full walk (he wasn't in the physical condition his younger brother and other kids were in when he started) and eating our good healthy home made food (gagged for the first week or so) and he fell for the other kids.... lock stock and barrell. The other kids are the sweetest, nicest, most loving kids you could ever want as friends.

So that gives me hope that my system could work on behavior disorder kids but I will never be in the business of cultivating them or providing that service. That's not what I want to do for a living. I like the newborns and raising kids from birth to five. I hope I will never know if my ways would work with kids I haven't had as babies because I always want a business filled with customers with long histories... and kids I've had from the go.

[kidlove]

Wow! my stomache began to ache the farther I read into that! you wrote that and you really practice that with your children in your care? i have agreed with you on many things and believe that we (adults) are here to guide children into the correct life BUT WOW! those rules are rediculous, is there anything they can do, not to mention, how do these kids feel after a day of so many "no's!" thrown at them, I'm surprised they play with any toys at all, I think I would just crawl into a corner, and I know I would have a ton of anxiety , worried about making a mistake all the time! I do believe that children should be respectful of toys not throw them or bang on them, not stand on them or break them. but how will they ever learn, if they can't use their imagination as it goes, why can't more than two children play with a kitchen set? if anything they would have to learn to share and compromise. So many life skills are developed in independent play, you cant guide a child and correct a child constantly of mistakes and missteps and expect them to know how to function on their own. I personally find all those rules to be too much and if I were a parent I would run not walk from a meeting with that many stipulations. Children learn through natural play, not controlled play! you have to let them have a toy taken away and feel that emotion, then allow them to work it out, you have to let them get creative with the box or toy car, IF they want it to become a flying space ship who am I to tell them it needs to stay on the ground. IF a child wants to build a skyscraper above his head with pride, who am I to tell him to lower is expectations. "shoulder high, or loose the blocks, tommy" no way....."wow, you built the worlds highest tower, good for you" who knows, he could grow up to be an amazing architect IF you let him explore the limits, if you hinder them to your liking, he will not only be afraid to go farther than others expect of him in life, but he will always be looking over his shoulder to make sure everyone is accepting of his choices and worried he is letting someone down or "breaking the rules".

[Momof4]

I don't believe there are any perfect people or perfect children in the world, so kids are going to throw something once in a while or push each other out of frustration once in a while, simple things like that happen. So I do believe in teaching children that they made a mistake and they should say sorry and hug their friends.

I'm not here to break their spirits and turn them into robots! I'm here to teach them the consequences of bad actions and the praise they receive for good behaviour. I also teach good manners and morals and I want to be a vital part of setting these children on good habits and patterns for the rest of their lives.

We all have zero tolerance for bad behaviour I'm sure and we all use different methods depending on what works for our daycare and our particular groups of children because they are ever changing.

Daycarewhisperer, are you a Montessori school or some other form of extreme discipline? I'm concerned!

[daycarewhisperer]

[QUOTE=Momof4;36116]I don't believe there are any perfect people or perfect children in the world, so kids are going to throw something once in a while or push each other out of frustration once in a while, simple things like that happen. So I do believe in teaching children that they made a mistake and they should say sorry and hug their friends.

I'm not here to break their spirits and turn them into robots! I'm here to teach them the consequences of bad actions and the praise they receive for good behaviour. I also teach good manners and morals and I want to be a vital part of setting these children on good habits and patterns for the rest of their lives.

We all have zero tolerance for bad behaviour I'm sure and we all use different methods depending on what works for our daycare and our particular groups of children because they are ever changing.

Daycarewhisperer, are you a Montessori school or some other form of extreme discipline? I'm concerned![/QUOTE]



No I don't know a thing about Montessori. My name is Tori Fees. I live in Des Moines Iowa. I'm a Registered Nurse and a child care provider of 34 years with 20 being in the home child care home.

I blogged for daycare.com for a year and have my own consulting company. i also own the trademark of Daycare Whisperer.

A violence free child care isn't something to cause one to worry. We celebrate it and my clients love it. The kids turn out wonderfully and are stellar students. My parents read my writings, they read my posts on this site, they read my past posts on other daycare boards. I'm completely out in the open.

Oh and I didn't state that no one threw toys. I'm specifically talking about hitting, fighting, biteing, and acts of aggression. I'm not talking about accidental running into one another or stepping on the toes or hands of another child, or trying to cut in line.

I'm talking about physical acts of aggression like hitting, slapping, pinching, etc.. like the OP is describing with her two one year olds.

It's all good.

[kidlove]

Thanks momof4 for the comment. Robot is the first word that comes to mind in a "too controled" environment. My son is a limit pusher, not a bad kid by any means but he is the first to attempt to accomplishment required expectations on his own terms. If the teacher says left to right, he says right to left. Still gets the same outcome as all the rest, but does it his way. Over the years he has had teachers who seem to value that part of him, but more than that, teachers who feel he is noncompliant even defiant in ways. like I said, good kid, never shows anger or agression in situations, does have a hard time focusing and staying on target, especially if not interested in what he is expected to do, but...does HIS personal best and is truly amazing. very inventive, very deep thinker, very complex personality. I do lead him to make right choices of course, he is no adult and all kids need correction and redirection at times, but I also let him explore and make his own mistakes or make his own "great" accomplishments, if I gave him such set rules as no tower higher than your shoulders or play with that toy as I tell you, he would lose a big part of who he is, I couldn't imagine doing that to him. Although, the school system would deeply appreciate if I would turn him into the little "robot" they expect. Would make all the other adults in the world happy, would make him compliant and "well behaved" by societies standards" BUT....it would make him someone else. It would take away who he really is deep down and it would hinder the wonderful adult he will become. Sue your days are easier and the parents look t their kids like "wow! you have really transformed my child", but at the expense of that child not being able to be who they are, because ultimately they have been retrained to be who and what you want them to be!

[Skysue]

Lets all be realistic and support the original poster, she can't kick her own son out of daycare. She is looking for solutions for her program.

The best advice I have is watching the boys play as much as you can in order to see the aggression pattern. If hes biting out of frustration due to toys being taken away than correct that behaviour right away etc...

Understanding what is the motivating factor is parmount for success.

Also the best part of our daycare is running our programs based on our own value systems. I am sooooooo greatful for having found parents who are on the same page as me.

My style is lets prepare these kids for the real world, not every encounter in our lives are going to be pleasent, how we learn to problem solve and deal we these situations is the key to success.