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  1. #1
    Shy
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    Provider over ratio - what are the consequences?

    My daycare provider has a scheduled play date once a week with another provider. They switch between going over to each others homes and in the summer they meet at the park. It hadn't occurred to me before I found this site that this technically is not allowed as between them they have more than 5 kids plus their own at one house and it doesn't matter that there are two of them. Previously I thought as long as there was one adult for every five kids it was all good.
    I really like my daycare provider and would never say anything. But what if someone else reports them? Would they be shut down?
    TIA

  2. #2
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    This is a very gray area in the regulations as there is no "written" rule about having playdates with other providers as far as i know. I wouldn't say meeting at the park is an issue because there are quite often multiple children and adults there and as long as she is able to adequately supervise then I don't see a problem. When my friend did home daycare, she would bring her crew here occasionally and there was never a problem, mind you she usually came when she had less than five children.

  3. #3
    Euphoric !
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    I meet other caregivers at the parks and there were times when we had 4-5 caregivers and a whole lot of children. I've stopped that because there was one caregiver who didn't really watch her children very well and because it's too hard to keep track of my 5 daycare children. I prefer meeting one caregiver at a time. I don't take any chances with safety and I'm constantly counting to 5 so prefer parks where I can see them at all times.

    As far as meeting in one of our homes I have done that before but when we each only have a few children in attendance and we only have a visit like this once in a while because we know it's iffy. It's much better to meet at parks or the library or a place like the Ontario Early Years Centre.

    Can you have an honest talk with your caregiver about the visits and your concerns for her? Let her know that you wouldn't want anything to happen to her and her daycare because you value her and she shouldn't be insulted. Maybe she's unaware of the rules.
    Frederick Douglass
    It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.

  4. #4
    Euphoric !
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    This was a grey area up until the pool incident in Orleans and now the ministry has come right out and said that playdates are illegal because it means more than 5 daycare children in a premise and the yard is included as the premise meaning it is ok at the city park next door but not at the home of another daycare provider. In Ontario you need to be aware of this. There is a very good chance your caregiver is not aware. There is a copy of a letter sent from the ministry outlining the information on the www.ccprn.com website that you could print and share with your caregiver. Once you have made them aware then you will have to decide how you feel if they don't stop. Do be aware that if anything were to happen to your child during one of these visits that your caregivers daycare insurance would be void as would the home insurance of the person whose house it was.

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  6. #5
    I believe the process is involved but would be basically the provider is randomally visited by someone representing the ministry and given a warning. If/when they are visited a second time and they are not compliant, they are given a $2000 fine and basically shut down. Since the death of a child at a home daycare out in Orleans, ON where there were a bunch of daycare providers visiting another daycare provider's home with a pool the Ministry of ON has become very adamant that playdates at other daycare providers homes are not following the Days Nurseries Act rule of 5 in the home, doesn't matter how many adults are in the home. Home/Daycare Business Insurance companies have become stricter as well. Many companies will not insure a provider if they have a pool or a trampoline on their property. I know many providers in the Ottawa area are very aware of this due to all the media attention but maybe not elsewhere in the province. Do try to have a discussion with your provider.

  7. #6
    Shy
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    I understand your concern, however having play dates at each others homes or at playgrounds does not count as being over the Provider Ratio. If you are concerned speak with your daycare provider and voice your concern. I am a daycare provider and my parents are very happy with the play dates that we have with other providers, however I also make sure that I am aware of where my children are that are in my care at all times. I also work hard at keeping communication open between myself and my daycare parents so that they feel comfortable speaking with me about concerns they have.

  8. #7
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    Someone, I don't know where you are located, but in Ontario, you may NOT have a playdate at another person's home unless there are a maximum of 5 children other than your own. So, if the other caregiver has 2 children of her own, and 2 in care, and you have 2 of your own, and 3 in care, you would be fine because there are only 5 children other than your own. Even though there are two providers in attendance, it is a maximum of 5 children per location, NOT per provider. That is why many of us meet at public places like early learning centres or parks.

  9. #8
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    Treeholm is right. When I opened my daycare I called the ministry because I found the Day Nursery Act was not really clear to me. Anyhoo they confirmed to me that playdates are NOT ALLOWED if there is more than 5 children per location and that is all. I also met with an agency and they confirmed the same thing using the pool incident as reference.
    My first born went to a homedaycare and they were 2 providers in the home still only 5 children were attending daycare. So I would advise my daycare provider. Altought it may not bother you it is illegal and probably would void any insurance they may carry. As a parent and caregiver, I would never risk it.

  10. #9
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    Agree with the other ladies. Playdates in the home with over 5 children is illegal and not worth all the risks involved. The only time I allow another provider to come to my home with daycare children is if we are both down kids for the day and ALWAYS under the 5!

  11. #10
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    its a shame because this is our job and you are stuck inside your home. sometimes it would be nice to have interaction.

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