Violent 3yo - WWYD?

[playfelt]

I would have the conversation with mom at pick up in front of the child and involve the child. Start by saying to mom oh XXXX needs to tell you what he was doing at daycare today that made us really upset (use us not me as in group not a personal attack even though it was but that is only part of the issues). Or better yet have the toy involved with you. Then say XXX needs to tell you how he didn't play nicely with this toy today. Talk him through the words to say and if he doesn't talk which he likely won't then say it for him. Do you need to tell mommy that you hit me in the face with this toy because you didn't get your own way. Even if he then just nods or smirks or in some way reacts mom will know it is the truth. Then turn to the mom and say the behaviours are out of control and enough is enough. He is hurting me, his sister and I fear for the safety of the other children in my care. I would probably leave it at that and let mom make the next move. You could say call me later if you want to talk.

Hopefully mom will get a wake up call at some point or at least do a double think the next time that night child misbehaves. Expect her to at some point admit that she doesn't know what to do. Suggest that she see her doctor and ask for a referral to a psychiatric clinic for children. With the current push towards mental health and getting to children as early as possible there may be hope of him being seen. What you are showing is that he is willfully hurting people for the shear pleasure it brings to him - that is totally a sign of issues that need to be addressed professionally.

I would use the parent's willingness to get professional help as one measure of whether I kept him or not. Also at what point do we have the right to become physical with a child for the protection of the others in care in the sense of restraining - it is different tying a 3 year old to a chair than it is putting a one year old in their high chair even if the reasoning is the same - stay put cause I said so.

[sunnydays]

Alpha, I think I would terminate too! That is unacceptable from a child that age! He is not a little 18 month old who is testing the waters. At almost 3, a child should not be hitting and certainly not biting! My children NEVER use this kind of aggression with me or with each other (my daughter went through a short biting phase at around 12-14 months, but that's it). My tolerance for violence is low. I will work on it with a toddler (by toddler I mean 18 months to 2 years) if parents are supporting me. At the first sign of hitting or other acts of aggresstion, I start talking with parents about how to nip it in the bud. If a child that age hit me in the face with a toy on purpose, I don't know that I could continue to work with that child.

[Trace of Angels]

So sorry if I offended you :-( Totally not my intention. Just trying to help out...........You have to do what is best for you and it sounds like you are. Please take care and my sincere apologies again and hope that you have a great day :-)

[Momof4]

Wow Alpha, I'm glad your ads are up. I have a little boy in my daycare who turns 3 on March 6th so exactly the same age. He is docile and sweet and well behaved and polite and listens very well. You know what you have to do. That behaviour is completely unacceptable.

[daycarewhisperer]

I have a no violence policy so he would have been termed on the first offense. I offer a completely violence free program so I would have to send him out the door immediately after he got violent with me or anyone under my roof or on my property. There is no amount of money that would keep that kid under my roof. Too risky for me and the daycare kids I have would be devastated if they saw anyone hurt me or be mean to me. That day would have turned into a cry fest and the kids would be scared. Their parents would be livid if I let him come back. Not worth any amount of money.

[cfred]

I don't know if this helps at this point, but:

I had a little guy several years ago who had a pretty decent anger problem - temper tantrums, throwing things, hitting. Since clients were hard to come by out in the boonies, I worked with him on dealing with his anger, though I'm not a therapist in any way. We talked about good feelings and bad feelings and how sometimes we feel so mad we want to hit, scream, etc. I could see his behaviour was bothering him. So, I starting doing this 'breathing game' with him. When he felt angry (I saw it coming usually - eventually got to point of telling me) we would sit together and take a really deep breath in. That breath represented good feelings coming in. Okay, hold it! Super big breath out - that was the bad feelings going out. After each breath out, I'd say something like "Oh, I just saw some of your bad feelings leave! How wonderful! Shall we do it again?" He always wanted to do it again and after a few repetitions, he was calm, under control and feeling better. We had to seal those good feelings in with a big hug, which were often tearful for him, but he seemed almost relieved. I passed this on to his mom, who started using this method at home. Last we spoke, though a long time ago, she was still doing it! I was astonished that this worked as I had no idea what I was doing, but it really seemed to do the trick. We didn't have any violent outbursts after that. I had originally tried time outs, but found it exacerbated the tantrum. Sometimes, with some kids, there's a real, emotional issue that's beyond just normal 'booger behaviour'. This technique removed him from the situation and gave him a means to deal with his anger and to help it dissipate rather than submitting - I guess he felt like he wasn't being controlled.

[Nurse2]

I would first ask his mom what she would be willing to allow for "punishment". Ask if it is ok if you use time outs of 5-10 minutes when he is out of sorts. Be respectful to her wishes though. If she says she does not agree with time outs, inform her that if you cannot enforce rule in your home, that you have to let him go. She may change her mind and agree to time outs.
Give his mom the benefit of the doubt and try this. Time outs can be of benefit for young children, and they also give you some control in this situation.

[sunnydays]

Cfred, I love this idea!!! My 2.5 year old daughter tends to have a bit of a temper and when she gets mad, she throws things and shrieks etc. I wouldn't say she is an angry child at all, but has little temper flare-ups now and again when something doesn't work for her (like she can't get the buckle done up on the doll stroller...LOL). My 4 year old son tends to cry when he is mad or upset. I could see this method helping for both of them and I have been looking for a way to help them calm themselves down in those situations. Thankfully neither of them is violent toward others, but I relaly like the idea of teaching deap breathing so they can learn to calm themselves. I will give it a try and let you know how it goes!

I don't know if this helps at this point, but:

I had a little guy several years ago who had a pretty decent anger problem - temper tantrums, throwing things, hitting. Since clients were hard to come by out in the boonies, I worked with him on dealing with his anger, though I'm not a therapist in any way. We talked about good feelings and bad feelings and how sometimes we feel so mad we want to hit, scream, etc. I could see his behaviour was bothering him. So, I starting doing this 'breathing game' with him. When he felt angry (I saw it coming usually - eventually got to point of telling me) we would sit together and take a really deep breath in. That breath represented good feelings coming in. Okay, hold it! Super big breath out - that was the bad feelings going out. After each breath out, I'd say something like "Oh, I just saw some of your bad feelings leave! How wonderful! Shall we do it again?" He always wanted to do it again and after a few repetitions, he was calm, under control and feeling better. We had to seal those good feelings in with a big hug, which were often tearful for him, but he seemed almost relieved. I passed this on to his mom, who started using this method at home. Last we spoke, though a long time ago, she was still doing it! I was astonished that this worked as I had no idea what I was doing, but it really seemed to do the trick. We didn't have any violent outbursts after that. I had originally tried time outs, but found it exacerbated the tantrum. Sometimes, with some kids, there's a real, emotional issue that's beyond just normal 'booger behaviour'. This technique removed him from the situation and gave him a means to deal with his anger and to help it dissipate rather than submitting - I guess he felt like he wasn't being controlled.

[cfred]

Cfred, I love this idea!!! My 2.5 year old daughter tends to have a bit of a temper and when she gets mad, she throws things and shrieks etc. I wouldn't say she is an angry child at all, but has little temper flare-ups now and again when something doesn't work for her (like she can't get the buckle done up on the doll stroller...LOL). My 4 year old son tends to cry when he is mad or upset. I could see this method helping for both of them and I have been looking for a way to help them calm themselves down in those situations. Thankfully neither of them is violent toward others, but I relaly like the idea of teaching deap breathing so they can learn to calm themselves. I will give it a try and let you know how it goes!

Thanks Sunnydays, I hope it helps. It was a long time ago and I was trying to remember exactly what I said, so it's not right on, but pretty close. I would sometimes say 'Oh, did you feel that? Some of those bad feelings left!" Then the child is part of the process of changing the situation. I think it just gave the little guy a less extreme outlet for those feelings. With one of my older kids (8 yrs) I gave him a little notebook to write in when he felt very angry. I don't think it lasted too too long, but for a while, when he felt angry, he'd tell his mom that he needed to be by himself for a little while, then he'd grab his notebook and disappear. I think, many times, kids just get sooooo frustrated that they don't know what to do. Offering alternatives is sometimes, with ongoing anger management issues, better than discipline. They need to channel it somehow. Of course, that's just my 2 cents Good luck and let me know if it does the trick.