Tragedy at a home daycare in Vaughan, ON

[sunnydays]

With much respect (because I have a high degree of respect for you and for that matter, the other ladies on this forum...including the ones who I have opposite views from), I don't think this thread shouldbe shut down if people have things to add. I think everyone has been polite and stated their views...there hasn't been any name-calling or abuse. Many threads go off topic. Personally, if the turn a thread takes doesn't interest me, I just stop reading it and don't bother posting anything on it. This thread has nothing to do with the rude and disrespectful attack woman who was recently banned from posting. I know that we will all most likely have to agree to disagree, but does that mean we cannot have any healthy debate over controversial topics? For me, as long as everyone is being respectful, I take no offence at all to anyone stating views that are different from mine and I hope they do not take offence to me stating my opinions either. That's what it is to live in a democracy, a free country, where everyone has the right to discuss their opinions openly.

Of course there are people abusing all systems in all walks of life, including welfare and social assistance. I'm so tired of phony, lying, abusive, horrible, backstabbing people, rich and poor.

Part of the reason I wanted to find a job where I worked out of my own home was so that I can cut those types of people out of my life and I'm doing a darn good job of that. I only work with the nicest people. I like this forum because it's filled with intelligent, supportive women. We're all working hard.

We got rid of the abusive poster and since then this thread has certainly gone off course from the original subject of the death at the daycare. I love it when people debate constructively without attacking each other and you ladies are doing a pretty good job of that.

None of us are experts on stats for the government so lets agree to disagree for now and put this to bed!

[inspiredmom]

Hi, this story is very sad but unfortunately will continue on unless we, as parents make sure, our children are safe! People that run a daycare in that kind of environment do it because of us not saying anything until a tragedy happens!!!...enough is enough we have a voice let s ear it.,it seems not to gossip about next door neighbour wife,husband ect... but to speak out about the daycare that has too many kids! come on!!!

[inspiredmom]

Hi, this story is very sad but unfortunately will continue on unless we, as parents make sure, our children are safe! People that run a daycare in that kind of environment do it because of us not saying anything until a tragedy happens!!!...enough is enough we have a voice let s ear it! it seems ok to gossip about next door neighbour wife,husband ect... but when it comes to speak out about the daycare that has too many kids we keep it shut! come on!!!

[mamaof4]

oy.

I have a law degree. In the US that means I went to 4 years of college (BS) then 3 years of Law (JD) I also went on to get my LLM. I have 5 kids now, but when I graduated, my first job out of law school was a not for profit job that paid a whooping 27000 BEFORE taxes. Bearing in mind I had kids (2 at the time) and more than 50K in student loans (and that is LOW on the spectrum- I got a lot of scholarships went to public schools most law students end with more than 100k in loans). It would have been impossible to survive without help.

Now 7 years later, 3 kids later my husband is a firefighter, his income of 62,000 (before taxes) is supposed to care for us. The guy who is called to save lives and protect peoples homes.

The disparity between the rich and the poor has grown at an astonishing rate and makes it exceptionally hard for middle class people to survive- not living high either. I had to quit my job because he made more than I did, carries the benefits, and pension- in the US we have to pay for all of that ourselves. Which really means we piecemeal things together as best as we can.

Someone up thread said we as a society have the responsibility to care for the vulnerable. Who are more vulnerable than children?

[playfelt]

The parts that are missing is finding a way for those on a low income to get some of the necessities at the same percentage as others such as only spending 30% of their income on rent. I get why the government claws back half of everything a person on welfare or ODSP earns but then we wonder why they don't bother. When you earn $200 a week and only have $100 to keep but then have to deduct the going to work expenses from that such as bus fare and a hair cut it becomes not worth it.

My daughter is on ODSP and the only way she can survive is that she lives in a subsidized apartment so that she only pays the $450 the government gives towards rent and shares to make it work.

[Sandbox Sally]

I'm still waiting for momofnerds to come back to the thread and post the links to support her statement that 80% of welfare recipients are defrauding the system.

[momofnerds]

I'm still waiting for momofnerds to come back to the thread and post the links to support her statement that 80% of welfare recipients are defrauding the system.

our newspaper ran an article maybe last year about defrauding, it was interesting on how many people do it.

[playfelt]

I'm still waiting for momofnerds to come back to the thread and post the links to support her statement that 80% of welfare recipients are defrauding the system.

No need to stir up confrontation. You know there are no definitive stats out there which is part of the problem there is no being accountable for money received or money paid. Statistics are based on what is known and percentages deduced and well that sounds about right in the sense of a high number just like they say 80% of kids are cared for in private home daycare - no one knows for sure because that info isn't included in the taxes when parents claim and there is no accounting for kids cared for free by grandma whose parents work. Please just let it go.

[momofnerds]

ok, so on sat. I go to the park with my dd (her siblings didn't want to go with her) so as I'm sitting there, there is a mom with her 3 yr old ds. She was on her iphone. I had to bite my tongue at what she said.

she is talking loud enough that the other mother heard her too. this women starts laughing and goes on to say how she is getting extra money on her child tax credit. she continues to say how she needs the money because she she has no money in her bank to make it till the end of the week. (this part made me angry) she starts laughing and goes on to say "I'm glad they are taking money from the middle class and giving it to the poor because we need the money more than they do" omg, I so wanted to tell her off. The look on the other mothers face was priceless, she couldn't believe what she was hearing too.

then she continued her convo with a boat load of swear words and smoking her cigarrettes (my dd pointed it all out to me and she's 9) finally she left. I wanted to see where she was going (I live in a small town so its not like I couldn't find out) but really who brags about this stuff.

[playfelt]

As a self employed person I know I have to tread carefully in any discussion about fraud in the sense that while I don't set out to commit fraud most of us at one time or another have claimed a questionable item or even an item we know is wrong such as a receipt for two books knowing one was being given as a gift to a relative but come three years from now in an audit the expense will look legitimate. We defend it sometimes by saying well it makes up for the things I can't claim because I don't have a receipt for them... does not make it right.

There is nothing simple about how the tax laws, welfare laws, ODSP laws, childcare subsidy laws are determined and administered and the interpretation of the laws can even vary from one caseworker to another. We know that all of these systems are 100% broken and if we were in the position of finding a loophole that allowed us an extra $50 some month it is wrong for us to say we would not be tempted to take it because if you were really in that situation you do not know how you would react.