More on the toddler who died at daycare

[sunnydays]

I tend to agree with Judy on this. While the idea of being licensed and being able to lend credibility to my business etc, is nice and I know I would pass inspections,etc, I am not the kind of daycare that needs to be closed down. The ones who are currently running crappy daycares are not going to become licenses and therefore, they are not going to be inspected. And, quite frankly, parents who send their kids to these daycare ALREADY know that they are over-ration, illegal daycares. Licensing would not have saved this poor toddler who died. The daycare had 27 kids. They were already running illegally...so they would just continue to run illegallly if we were required to have licenses. I do think there needs to be more parent education about childcare laws as well as what quality childcare should look like. I think there also need to be MORE incentives for daycares to open so that more spaces are available and parents have more choice of where to put their kids.

[cfred]

I tend to agree with Judy on this. While the idea of being licensed and being able to lend credibility to my business etc, is nice and I know I would pass inspections,etc, I am not the kind of daycare that needs to be closed down. The ones who are currently running crappy daycares are not going to become licenses and therefore, they are not going to be inspected. And, quite frankly, parents who send their kids to these daycare ALREADY know that they are over-ration, illegal daycares. Licensing would not have saved this poor toddler who died. The daycare had 27 kids. They were already running illegally...so they would just continue to run illegallly if we were required to have licenses. I do think there needs to be more parent education about childcare laws as well as what quality childcare should look like. I think there also need to be MORE incentives for daycares to open so that more spaces are available and parents have more choice of where to put their kids.

My comments surrounding licensing were not solely to protect the children. While I do believe a stricter set of enforceable rules are a necessity for the protection of children, there is another agenda to my feelings on this matter. I recently visited a 'daycare' to have a visit with a new friend. We spent our time discussing the business, etc. I wasn't terribly impressed with her space but certainly saw the potential to make it child appropriate and conducive to the business. What rubbed me entirely the wrong way was that she was already caring for children and was not even CPR/First Aid certified. What? I don't believe she was properly insured for the daycare either. Then to top it off, as we discussed future enrollments, upon adding up the numbers, I commented on the fact that she would be over ratio. The response was a jovial 'lock and key' signal at the lips...let's keep it between us.

Ok, she's a lovely woman and I enjoyed chatting with her. But it really does annoy me that we're all lumped together and viewed as the same. It's not right. While there are many of us doing a good job, I really am uncomfortable being categorized with every other home daycare provider out there. Our industry has very little credibility. There should be a glaring difference between those who are educated in the field (whether through college or through course studies during their careers) , those who put in the effort to upgrade and improve their businesses and those who are just doing it to make some extra cash. Many of us have significant areas of our homes dedicated to our business that have been carefully thought out to be be conducive to early learning. It is a priority. Some I've seen simply try to 'wedge' the business in by putting out some toys and offering a snack. I disagree completely that we are all equal in this business, but in the eyes of the public, we are. Period. While I'm doing it right, as are many others, and I know I wouldn't be shut down, I would like something in place where it's recognized and my abilities, skill level, experience and education actually have meaning in the public's eyes. Maybe it's selfish, but I don't care at this point. I've worked too bloody hard to have illegal daycares and those with 'makeshift' daycares setting the tone for public opinion.

[Judy Trickett]

What rubbed me entirely the wrong way was that she was already caring for children and was not even CPR/First Aid certified. What? I don't believe she was properly insured for the daycare either. .

I have been away for a while so just getting back to this post.

Anyway, just to play the devil's advocate here. ............there are LOTS of parents who are not CPR/First Aid trained and no one says they are unfit to parent.

Now, I completely agree that you SHOULD be CPR trained etc when caring for kids. But it goes back to the same thing I said before - lots of parents simply don't CARE. One, they don't care if they are not asking those questions at interviews. Two, they don't care when they then enroll their kid in a daycare such as that. This is why I say it's not licensing that matters - it is ethics of the provider. No piece of paper is going to make someone ethical.

[apples and bananas]

I agree with you sunnydays. Another article came out today using quotes from some of the clients. They both said the children were well taken care of. They were clean, fed and happy. None of them are coming out saying " I had no idea there were that many children there "

Unfortunately, as good as charging the parents and the caregiver sounds. It wouldn't work in my opinion. A parent would never rat on a daycare that is over limit because they'd be fined as well. And, in this case at least, no one would get fined until someone got hurt and authorities found out.

I really wish the media would get off of the "unlicensed daycare' wagon and focus on the reason for the childs death and how it could be prevented.

[eoinsmom]

I agree with you sunnydays. Another article came out today using quotes from some of the clients. They both said the children were well taken care of. They were clean, fed and happy. None of them are coming out saying " I had no idea there were that many children there "

Unfortunately, as good as charging the parents and the caregiver sounds. It wouldn't work in my opinion. A parent would never rat on a daycare that is over limit because they'd be fined as well. And, in this case at least, no one would get fined until someone got hurt and authorities found out.

I really wish the media would get off of the "unlicensed daycare' wagon and focus on the reason for the childs death and how it could be prevented.

Exactly. My background is in Child Welfare as a front line social worker. I saw licensed and approved foster homes who abused children. I don't think licensing is a catch all to prevent any kind of abuse, neglect, etc; sure un-announced home visits can catch caregivers who may be breaking the rules, but not always. There were soooo many times I did unannounced home visits only to have no one answer the door (I was almost always positive they were home), as they knew it was someone checking up on them. Then I was just out of luck, and had to try another day. And fines? Can't see that be useful, does it stop speeders? I have parents in my dayhome now who brought their kids to me and told me they were using other private dayhomes previously who had 10+kids. They knew it was too many, but needed the care and so sent their kids there anyway. I still have to register and be licensed by the Alberta College of Social Worker to work at my other contract job, it is just a PIA more than anything - costs me $350 a year and I have to do so many credit hours of learning each year and submit a portfolio. Does that make me better at my job? Do they provide me with any kind of extra support/benefit? Not in my opinion.

The onus is on parents to make the right choices for their families, and on the caregivers to provide quality care. Licensing won't change either.

[sunnydays]

At least they could say "over-ratio" or "illegal" daycare instead of "unlicensed"...m akes "unlicensed" sound like it is illegal and shady

[BlueRose]

another update http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ls-review.html

[Momof4]

I find this line absolutely ridiculous and the reason they are on a witch hunt:

But it's the government's job to make sure that people have safe places for their kids while they're at work, Taylor said.

It is the job of each set of parents to find the daycare provider and dayhome that appeals to them, to their vision for their child, to find a provider who offers exactly what sounds best to them. It is not the government's job!

I know there are many substandard, illegal daycares out there - like the ones with 27 kids in care. But we are not ILLEGAL, we're FANTASTIC and LEGAL because we are all within our limits, providing excellent care, learning and activity programs and we don't have to defend ourselves to anyone.

[sunnydays]

Well, in a way I understand what Taylor is saying. Complaints were made and not followed up on. I know another provider who reported a fellow provider in the area who she believes is over-ratio...they did not investigate because they figured she was just trying to get rid of competition. But, I also agree that parents need to take responsibility for their child's well-being. I also had a child in my daycare last year who came from an over-ratio daycare...all the parents knew, but continued to send their kids there. Even the mom who switched over to my daycare did not want to report the provider. She had assistants...but it sounded chaotic.

[SongSparrow]

Sounds to me like a politician taking a jab at the opposition more than anything else.