More on the toddler who died at daycare

[momofnerds]

ok, but if we need to be regulated the daycare centers need to regulated even more. today when I dropped off ds at tutoring, I watched 1 provider with 8 children all 3 yrs old coming back from the dollar store. There is a daycare next door to the tutoring place thats why I knew. So why is ok for a center to be 1:8 ratio but mine has to be 1:5 just doesn't make any sense now does it.

[Other Mummy]

A&B, I was wondering if any of my clients would comment on this tragedy. Surprisingly, none did. That is not a good thing though. Who knows what's going on in their minds. Questioning their decision to use in home daycare. All my parents really appreciate my services, the care I offer and the program I run. I know this thru glowing recommendations (I have a waiting list now and am completely full). Letters of thanks, etc. But how could you not have thoughts run thru your head as a parent.

I'd prefer parents came right out and mentioned it. No one did.

[Other Mummy]

ok, but if we need to be regulated the daycare centers need to regulated even more. today when I dropped off ds at tutoring, I watched 1 provider with 8 children all 3 yrs old coming back from the dollar store. There is a daycare next door to the tutoring place thats why I knew. So why is ok for a center to be 1:8 ratio but mine has to be 1:5 just doesn't make any sense now does it.

It doesn't make sense. I can be a mom of 5 kids, yet still run an in home daycare with 5 children. That is 10 children I can legally have in my care. Yet, the daycare provider down the street might not have any children of her own and still only operate on a 5 children rule.

[playfelt]

There are other threads on this issue on the forum and what it comes down to is experience for the most part. I am a mom to 4 and what most of the parents that have come to me appreciate is that that comes with experience of knowing what is normal for different age groups and the ability to recognize when a child is about to walk and what proofing steps to take. I know that is not instinct. Also a person that juggles 4 kids after hours and weekends and is doing it anyways - meal and activity planning for multiples, scheduling for a variety of age groups can much easier add another one to the mix than a woman with no kids that suddenly decides they want to open a daycare and just take in five kids and hope for the best. Even taking courses such as ECE is not really the real world is much is based on books and while there is some practicum it doesn't include being alone with all the kids.

Also when a mom has her own children unless she had a couple sets of close in age twins/triplets her own kids are spread out age wise the more she has meaning the older ones are helpful and already know about not leaving stuff out because of babies so it is a help not a hindrance. This would not be the case if you took in an older child for care that did not have younger siblings.

[sunnydays]

Other mummy, I know what you mean. I wish my clients would bring it up too so I could respoind to it rather than have fears lodge themselves in their heads. I would like to think they have anough confidence and trust in me not to worry too much, but who knows really? I have my two nephews visiting right now and they are 8 and 12...the 8 year old has been hanging out with us a lot this week because I have one child away this week (and he may be away next week too). If my dcb comes back and I am at my full 5 again, I know I will not be able to have my younger nephew come on outings with us unless his older brother comes as his babysitter...but even then I am worried people will think I am over-ratio (his brother is huge and looks more like 18, so I am hoping that will help). I did have on dc dad ask about my nephew's age...maybe he was just curious, but maybe he was wondering if I have too many kids. I am VERY careful about these things although to be honest, having my nephew actually helps because he is very helpful with the little ones and he keeps my 5 year old busy. This is a very sad case of a little one dying...every parent's worst nightmare. Whatever the cause of death, people are now going to link it to unlicensed daycare...that is the line being used. I watched the daycare centre from my son's school arrive at the splashpad today...I couldn't even count the number of 2 and 3 year olds I saw there and it was chaos! Yes, there were the correct number of caregivers...but how do they manage to keep track of all those kids? It seems pretty chaotic to me. When I go to the park with my 5 dck's and my own 2, I am in tune with each one. I know who is likely to raun away, who is prone to being too much of a risk taker on the playstructure, who I have to worry about less as they will sit playing in the sand the whole time, etc. I can recognize instantly each child's voice or cry even if there are other kids at the park. This is because I have a bond with each one and I know them extremely well. They also know what to expect from me. The point about birthday parties is a good one. I am allowed to host a party of 20 kids alone and parents don't stay, I don't know the kids, it is usually mass chaos, but this is okay.

[Momof4]

Ok, but this is the kind of daycare that gives us all a bad rap and it SHOULD have been shut down a long time ago. People get away with this type of thing all the time, too many kids, substandard food, substandard care, period. It's really sad. But the media is making us ALL sound like criminals even though there are so many of us out here doing a fantastic job and following all the rules. That's what makes me mad.

[Sandbox Sally]

I agree. When I saw the original article, there were other articles linked on the side with scare tactic titles about unlicensed child care. UGH.

[playfelt]

It seems to be the paper itself that is trying to bring up the unlicensed issue - remember their agenda from those other programs like marketplace. The authorities have only commented on the health and food issues and the possibility of underlying medical issues.

[momofnerds]

something needs to be done, but you know what, i blame the company she was with, the ministry of education and the food inspectors because they all washed their hands of this and are now blaming being unlicensed caused the problems. Why wasn't she charged before, why weren't follow ups done at least once a year, why can't she be redflagged on a national site. These easy steps would have prevented the death too.

[Judy Trickett]

The ONLY way society is gonna be able to stop warehousing is to charge the parents as well as the providers. Let's face it, licensing doesn't suddenly make warehousers follow the rules. It just doesn't. It is illegal to steal but we still have thieves. It is illegal to kill but we still have murders. Legalities and licensing don't suddenly make people honest.

I'm sorry, but it downright negligent to have 27 kids in one house. Yes, the provider was negligent regardless of the cause of death. But so were the parents! Do NOT tell me, for one second, that the bulk of the parents were not aware that that there were too many kids there. And, ignorance of the law is NO excuse. These are THEIR children, for God's sake, it is the parents' JOB to know the law.

In cases like this both the provider AND the parent should be charged with negligence. When you leave your CHILD in an unsafe, illegal position you are then an accomplice. In ANY other crime this would be so. Why should it be different for warehouse daycare? Just because a child dies everyone says, "Oh, the parents have already suffered so much". But THEY, the parents, LEFT that child in that unsafe, negligent situation. Both the provider AND the parents share the blame and responsibility for this death.