Would you term this child?

[torontokids]

Biting a child as a "teaching tool" is like a parent that hits their child then yells at the kid for hitting their brother. I think it could send the child mixed messages and also as a parent I wouldn't want to be viewed by my child as someone that "hurts" them.

[cfred]

I would suspect this is why it's no longer part of ECE curriculum. The prof who told us she was taught to do this was about 60+ yrs when she was my instructor....20 years ago

[Momof4]

I see what you're saying torontokids, but in defense of my daycare Mom, she's a wonderful Mom and this is her second child, so she's learned a lot about parenting over the past 5 years. What would you do if your HDCP was at her wit's end because 2 other children have been badly bitten at daycare? What if your HDCP was stressing that this has to stop NOW? I've been tapping baby on her teeth, looking her in the eyes and telling her OUCH on her friends and other things like that, never taking my eyes off her, but it happens so fast. I have a new baby starting soon and this cannot happen to him!

[playfelt]

Some of the old methods although frowned on now worked wonders. Spanking the body part in offence such as the hands for touching, the mouth for biting, the leg/foot for kicking - we are talking spanking not smacking/abusing. What it does is draw attention to the child of what they did - they bit with the mouth, kicked with the leg/foot, touched something they were not allowed to with the hands. Actions speak louder than words was coined for a reason.

As to biting a child back yes again an old final straw medicine. Ouch to a child is a concept they don't always associate with what they are doing. When it hurts them they do a double take. Then when you say say no ouch or no touch they get what you are saying. Normally it only needs to happen once, twice at most or monthly at most not daily or weekly. Right or wrong it worked. I do get tired of the weeks/months of nonsense we put up with now in the interest of no corporal punishment. Don't care if it put the fear of whatever into the child, they never did it again and we could go on with life in peace - not sounding like a broken record, or pulling our hair out, or screaming for the craziness to stop - no need to terminate kids because they were taught to obey authority by the parents and transferred that onto the caregiver/teacher. Oh how I long for those days. We had time to learn and have fun and in reality I think kids were actually happier and less stressed. Just my opinion of course but then I am old enough to have lived the lifestyle not just read about it being torn to shreds by somebody's new ideal that has since proven not as effective.

[Crayola kiddies]

My youngest was a biter and none of my kids ever bit until this one and I tired everything ..... One day he bit me .... I shrieked very loud to scare the hell out of him and then I bit him back ..... He has never bit since ..... However I obviously could never bite someones elses kid and I have never had a biter in my daycare so I don't have experience there but with my own biting him back worked.

[momofnerds]

acually I had a little girl (several years ago) who went around biting the kids. Totally out of the blue. You never knew when she would strike. So I told gma that I didn't know what to do, but apparently she wasnt doing it at home, till one day.......she bit gma so hard she drew blood. Gma bit her back and the little girl never bit again.

I've had parents when their child bit them, laugh. So a child doesn't get that it hurts.

last week I had a 5 yr old bite his 11 yr old brother. Guess who got punished to the chair. And when I asked him why he did it, he shrugged his shoulders. So I got down on his level and used my mean voice and I wanted an answer, not shoulders being shrugged. It turned out that his brother took the popsicle sticks by mistake and the 5 yr old wanted it back. At that age you know right from wrong and you should have consequences.

the parents just brush it off when it happens at home and thats why he does it, too bad I'm mean and don't put up with it.

[jammiesandtea]

Some of the old methods although frowned on now worked wonders. Spanking the body part in offence such as the hands for touching, the mouth for biting, the leg/foot for kicking - we are talking spanking not smacking/abusing. What it does is draw attention to the child of what they did - they bit with the mouth, kicked with the leg/foot, touched something they were not allowed to with the hands. Actions speak louder than words was coined for a reason.

As to biting a child back yes again an old final straw medicine. Ouch to a child is a concept they don't always associate with what they are doing. When it hurts them they do a double take. Then when you say say no ouch or no touch they get what you are saying. Normally it only needs to happen once, twice at most or monthly at most not daily or weekly. Right or wrong it worked. I do get tired of the weeks/months of nonsense we put up with now in the interest of no corporal punishment. Don't care if it put the fear of whatever into the child, they never did it again and we could go on with life in peace - not sounding like a broken record, or pulling our hair out, or screaming for the craziness to stop - no need to terminate kids because they were taught to obey authority by the parents and transferred that onto the caregiver/teacher. Oh how I long for those days. We had time to learn and have fun and in reality I think kids were actually happier and less stressed. Just my opinion of course but then I am old enough to have lived the lifestyle not just read about it being torn to shreds by somebody's new ideal that has since proven not as effective.

I totally agree with playfelt's main points, particularly the ones I highlighted in bold.

As a caregiver, I've never used any type of corporal punishment, but I DO teach children to respect adults' authority and I run a tight ship because I am firm, consistent, and no-nonsense when it comes to behaviour. Raising children should not be a democracy. My role (and the parental role) is more than just providing care, daily needs, emotional support, etc. Our job is to TEACH children all that they need to learn in order to be decent, kind, empathetic, productive members of society. Those lessons can't start at 5 or 10 or 15 years of age. It starts from the beginning, or else you are way behind and some never catch up at all. (Those are the brats, bullies, and juvenile criminals we've all unfortunately met.)

Sorry for the mini rant ladies, but this topic is a hot one for me!

I WISH we could (as caregivers) bite a biter in return to show them immediately that it hurts and is not something they ever want to experience again or inflict on others. It WORKS. It teaches empathy in a way that toddlers can actually understand. I support any parent who employs it.

Edited to add: Just realized that in my mini-ranting haste, I forgot to answer the original question! lol

I would probably term, given that Dad isn't on board with discipline and prefers to be the kid's best friend rather than his father. I disagree with him on punishing/taking away evening privileges being too late to have an effect. At 2 years old that is true, but an intelligent 3.5 year old as you described him, would definitely remember in the evening why he is dealing with a consequence of bad behaviour earlier in the day.

But unless Dad has some sort of miraculous epiphany overnight, he isn't going to change and neither is the kid. Actually, the kid will just get worse as he learns more and more ways of pitting the caregiver or whoever dares to discipline him, against soft, weak Daddy who will always be his best friend and can't bear to punish his poor innocent baby (who bites and victimizes others).

[Sassygirl]

TERM!!!
They should know better at that age.
You also don't need the other parents getting upset and pulling their children.
This 3.5 year old will be going to school soon.

[torontokids]

I totally agree that parents need to be authoritative and respected. I am definitely not a parent that looks to be my child's friend and my children do not get away with anything. I think sometimes it is suggested in this forum that parents are then lenient/pushovers if they don't employ certain discipline strategies. I do however stand by my statement that it is wrong to bite a child and/or hit a child.

I worked for over 8 yrs with children who's behaviours were so extreme they couldn't manage in mainstream daycare or schools. There are tons of alternatives/approaches to managing behaviours but I think the problem with these alternatives is that they are often not as immediately effective or are not effectively implemented leading people to think they don't/wouldn't work.

For example with biting. Yelling "ow, that hurt mommy" with a firm/mean face can be quite effective and I have had this work with problem biters (parents need to be consistent as well and of course no laughing). You may need to do it a few more times but I find it works. Also I teach my kids to use their words and they will tell each other when they don't like something (I'll coach them to say "Bobby, I don't like that!") or they learn to stop playing with the offender and the "biter" catches on real quick. Shadowing, teethers, separation all work as well. I also do a lot with my kids to teach them calming strategies (e.g. deep breaths, walking away, counting to 10) so they can calm themselves when feeling upset and then use their words as opposed to their teeth. I do a lot of modelling of this and coach them to learn to do this effectively. Even my 18 mos old can say "I don't like that" where as the littler ones are more separated/corrected by me.

[jammiesandtea]

I definitely agree with you torontokids, about teaching kids coping and calming strategies, as well as utilizing other methods to combat biting, particularly since as caregivers we can't opt for the bite-the-biter response anyway. Yelling "OW, that HURT jammiesandtea!" with a firm/mean face, with emphasis on the yell and the firm/mean face... NOT a wishy-washy/gentle reaction or even worse, a laugh.

We can agree to disagree on a parents' use of the bite-the-biter method. I respect your right to be against it. I still feel it is a logical consequence, and my discipline philosophy is based around logical consequences for behaviour. Alas, it's not a method that a daycare provider/non-parent is allowed to use, so I will continue to shadow, provide teething/biting alternatives when appropriate, teach coping strategies, and yell OW! with my mean face on when necessary. lol

Also, I fully agree, I don't think that parents must use spanking or biting etc to be authoritative, respected, and in control of their children. Not using it does NOT automatically make a parent a lenient pushover. Not at all! But a parent/caregiver does need to be the one who makes the rules, has ENOUGH rules, and enforces the rules consistently, every time, every day, in order to be authoritative, respected, and in control of the children. It sounds like you have the right mindset of parent/caregiver, not friend, and we're both living proof that you can be authoritative without the use of corporal punishment. Now if only we could get ALL the parents of the world to be more authoritative and in control, our jobs (and society!) would be so much easier and happier!