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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsPlusOne View Post
    I'm not going to sue, I'm taking them to the human rights tribunal. Difference is it does not cost me money. But hopefully I can protect another child from going through what my child has gone through and teach providers across Canada that its wrong, something a lot of you on this site just don't get

    Right, the no money route.

    YOU put your child through what they have gone through. YOU failed to protect your child from a provider you claim was abusive. Can you include yourself in your claim?

    Forget all of this nonsense and put your child first. Sometimes it isn't about a cause.. it's about looking after your own. Once your own child is settled, then go ahead and take on the cause. Don't put the "cause" ahead of your child.

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  3. #42
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    I think from the standpoint of the age of the child we are having a hard time figuring out exactly what the problem is. I do not have boy toys or girl toys just a playroom. I encourage boys to dress as a princess and a girl to dress as a dragon, etc if it pleases them and they want to try on other roles. PreK/K is when children explore what life is all about and where they fit in.

    I have one bathroom and everyone uses it including me. Many K classrooms are the same.

    As far as the name goes we have never been given that piece of information. Children don't pick their names parents do. As an adult we can change our name if we want to. So the parent helping the child to change the gender sound of their given name has never been mentioned here. Besides kids don't come to school with a list of boy/girl baby names memorized anyways and will accept any name for any gender and many are interchangeable anyways. Variations of a name have long been acceptable in school as children are named after relatives but given a derivative to distinguish them from the older relatives they are named after. Rarely is a child named Mary after a grandparent and then called Hazel unless that is the given middle name. I am not debating how legitimate the feelings are in the child but what I am opposed to is that the child is being given control over issues that no other child ever has so why should they be allowed. ie fine you want to look like, dress like, act like, be named like the opposite gender fine but parents determines the perameters allowable not the minor child. That is what the teachers were in essence objecting to.

    Children in prek/k still often mix up pronouns, genders, etc. and mostly we just let it all slide. So even if the teacher calls the child by the desired gender it is up to the kids to pick up on the fact of what the teacher is doing not for the teacher to sit everyone down and lecture them on calling the child he/she just as the teacher at this age does not correct a child from calling another child with the wrong pronoun unless asked.

    That is where we feel this discussion has gone of the rails - just what is expected of the classroom teacher/children. We accept everyone and do not make a spectacle of them which includes not making them the most important centre of attention in the room - just letting them function as one of the group in the way that is meaningful to them.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bright sparks View Post
    So what you are saying Daycarewhisperer is that all people who feel they have gender misidentity are delusional? You are comparing this to someone with a severe mental health issue such as personality disorder or schizophrenia which is like apples and oranges. Not the same. Gender Identity disorder is not just a psychological disorder but a biological, genetic issue also, so to compare a mental health patient who is delusional thinking they are Jesus with someone who has both the psychological factors and biological make up to back up the misidentity is just pure ignorance. You said yourself that you worked in Mental health years ago. Theories and treatment have evolved since then and what was then, is now outdated and ineffective. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and while they are definitely okay to voice on this forum I have to speak up when someone such as yourself who claims to be so knowledgable in all things childcare related, makes such an awful comment inplying that this child is infact mentally ill and needs treating as though there is actually something wrong with them that needs to be cured or fixed. Perhaps offering advice versus criticism and strong negative comments would be more productive in helping this woman.

    The law states (and I paraphrase in a big way) that a child should be allowed to have whatever gender they identify with to be how they are treated or addressed. It's irrelevant at this stage the legalities of SIN numbers, credit cards or drivers licenses. For goodness sake this is a child. Those legalities need to be addressed as they get older but are not a reason to not respect the wishes of the child and their families wishes right now regardless on your stance on the subject. Racism isn't tolerated so prejudism of any kind shouldn't either. So what, you don't agree what their gender identity is, who cares, this is about them, not you. Yes it is a difficult subject to discuss with such young children but its because it is a taboo subject and society has labeled it as strange and different and it's easier to ignore it and hope it goes away, than to take a deep breath and find the courage to make change. Maybe if it was talked about more often it would mean a less ignorant future generation who would be more accepting of differences. You don't like it? Well you don't have to, but show them respect like everyone else. Would it kill you to be a little supportive instead of so objective for a change.

    This started out as a post about taking legal action on a touchy subject. I believe there is info missing and like anything written in a post, sometimes vital pieces of information are overlooked or left out due to the OP feeling overwhelmed and emotional. I think whoever suggested leaving the forum, I think Momof4, and putting all their efforts into finding resources that will help her and her child is the best route to go. I think sueing is a lost course but it doesn't mean by any means this parent should be quiet. I believe that the child is the priority here regardless of anybodies belief in GID, but also this parent needs support and help to be able to offer the best support and guidance for the child. I know the truth can be hard to hear and can be harsh, I've been there, but to interject some compassion into people's advice would also be productive. Also giving advice to someone on a subject that most have no first hand experience with based on their own ideologies and sometimes sheer ignorance is not helpful to anyone. It just causes more stress and conflict. Just my two cents, by all means, fire your attacks back at me
    I'm not going to blast you. I agree with some of what you say. Where we part ways is how to manage this in a setting with little kids. I will not call a girl a boy. I will not address her or anyone around her relating to her as a boy. Aint gonna happen.

    I think there will be precious few people in society who will offer that for free. They may find teams of folks to do it who receive money for it but precious few who will offer it without being paid.

    What's wrong with the truth? What's wrong with acknowledging that the child feels or thinks they should be the other sex? That can't be done without lying to the child and other childrenm?

    If this little girl gets a vaginal yeast infection her docs will document it as such. If she gets an ovarian cyst they will tell the truth in their diagnosis. She will have a life where despite what she wants or feels she will have the truth that she is a female. Those who serve her in public should not be expected to accommodate an untruth.

    We should be open to her wearing clothing as she wishes as long as it is safe. She should be able to play to her interest. She should be able to refer to herself as whatever name she wants to say.

    We shouldn't be expected to provide a therapeutic environment for her that agrees she is a boy when she is not. We shouldn't be required to have training for it. We shouldn't be trained to lie.
    Last edited by daycarewhisperer; 08-29-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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  5. #44
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    We shouldn't be expected to provide a therapeutic environment for her that agrees she is a boy when she is not. We shouldn't be required to have training for it. We shouldn't be trained to lie.
    I have to agree with this.

    If this type of care is required then take them to someone offering special needs care, with someone who is trained for it. If this child is truly transgender then there is more to their needs than what name is used and if they are referred to as he or she.

  6. #45
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    But does anyone else think this time line doesn't make sense. Acually the whole thing doesn't make any sense.

    if your child was seen by a mental health dr. then they would be either admitted or an outpatient. Dr's wouldn't just call it a trangender and go about their business. They would recommend that you remove your child immediatley and get your child counseling.

    and why would your mothers dr get you subsidy???? you have to apply for it like everyone else and you have to supply your income unless you are hiding something. Wouldn't you think that your childs dr would be the one trying to get you subsidy.

    unless you change your childs name, your daycare provider will call your child by the name you wrote on the paper. You can't one day say "well we decided to change their name because the child wanted to be something else"

    I had a child who I coached soccer, her parents wanted me to call her "bunny" (she was going into jk also) I called her by the name she was registered with, its great to have a nickname, but this child thought thats what her name was, well guess what, the school felt the same way and called her by the name she was regestered with, so now "bunny" is now only used at home.

    also, if there was an issue, didn't you give the provider a dr's note or anything saying thats what the diagnoses was and how to help your child with the transition so you can work as a whole unit.

    wait, your child is 5 now. Do they not go to school. Did they not go to junior kindy or kindigarten. What did the teacher do when you told her this, what did the teacher call your child.

  7. #46
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    I am having a really hard time with this too to the point of anger because I think we are being played. We all know how slowly the wheels of motion are and how backlogged mental health is so a child at 5 with "issues" I'm sorry but isn't the highest priority on the appointment screen because initially it will be passed off as a phase. I am also thinking the poster may be US not Canada given the issues getting care for parent and subsidy that follows the child etc - not Canadian things. Timeline is just too messed up.

    If child is so mature and articulate that they can talk to parents, doctors, psychologists, mental health team about the issues they are also able to "use their words" to talk to their own peers about wanting to be called he instead of she or treated like one of the guys or whatever. Then if the peers ask the teacher for help that is when the teacher steps in.

  8. #47
    Euphoric ! bright sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daycarewhisperer View Post
    I will not call a girl a boy. I will not address her or anyone around her relating to her as a boy. Aint gonna happen.
    This is your right in a home daycare to do so, but it does not mean it is right or best for this individual. It is simply what is best for YOU and what makes YOU more comfortable with the whole situation.

    I think there will be precious few people in society who will offer that for free. They may find teams of folks to do it who receive money for it but precious few who will offer it without being paid.
    I don't think they would find teams of people who would do it for money either. It is not societies "norm" money has nothing to do with it. Children are generally dealt with and taught to as a single model and anything outside of that "norm" makes them a special need. The child is different from the norm and the real problem is that the teacher/caregiver is not educated or equipped to meet the child's needs but the child and their family will always pull the short straw whether they be autistic, 2e, or any other type of psychological issue which does not fall under this model and have to look outside of regular schooling or care because those settings are not sufficient. This is a whole other subject, so lets not open that can of worms but you get what I'm saying I am sure. It's complicated and not clean cut.

    What's wrong with the truth? What's wrong with acknowledging that the child feels or thinks they should be the other sex? That can't be done without lying to the child and other childrenm?
    You just think it can't be done because you don't have the answer. Complicated? Extremely! But don't quit before you try. How detrimental to the child. They are the ones who suffer at the end of the day.

    If this little girl gets a vaginal yeast infection her docs will document it as such. If she gets an ovarian cyst they will tell the truth in their diagnosis. She will have a life where despite what she wants or feels she will have the truth that she is a female. Those who serve her in public should not be expected to accommodate an untruth.
    A TG person acknowledges that they have the body of a specific gender, but do not feel that they are psychologically so. There's no untruth there. Adult TG people live, dress and refer to themselves as the opposite gender than their genitalia defines them as but do not necessarily deny the physiology of their body, but gender is far more than the gentialia inbetween a persons legs, but rather the gentic makeup beyond that, which is scientifically proven, and the role that they psychologically identify with personally rather than what society puts on them. I know you lot like proof and reference so if you insist I can pull up some info.



    We shouldn't be expected to provide a therapeutic environment for her that agrees she is a boy when she is not. We shouldn't be required to have training for it. We shouldn't be trained to lie.
    Again there is no need to lie, that being said, I sure as hell don't have a clear cut answer as to how to tell a young child on a level that they can grasp. I do however think that this shouldn't mean we push these children away or treat them how WE PERSONALLY see fit because WE don't know how to deal with it. That is not THERE fault it is OURS. We really owe them respect and understanding and try to accommodate them like any other person with a special need.

    There are providers, and centres more so in urban centres who are quite capable of running inclusive programmes where they are able to efficiently and effectively accommodate the needs of many whether they be TG, Gifted, Or anywhere else on the spectrum of "special needs" or "exceptional". I'd pretty much bet that those places do not charge more per day for the TG child, than for the Hetro child. Is nobody paying attention to the suicide and depression rates of these children? It's because people either can't help them, won't try to help them or want to fix them. There is nothing wrong with them the way they are only the way society treats them.
    Last edited by bright sparks; 08-29-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  9. #48
    Euphoric ! bright sparks's Avatar
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    Sorry folks, my quoting skills are not great

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bright sparks View Post
    Sorry folks, my quoting skills are not great
    Can you fix it? It's really hard to read.

    Rule of thumb.....

    Beginning of quote = [quote]



    Ending of quote = the same as above but with a / in front of the word quote. I can't actually write that out or it will "quote" what I just wrote! LOL!

    If you hit the edit button you can go back in and amend those quotes.


  11. #50
    Euphoric ! bright sparks's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Judy Trickett;52691]Can you fix it? It's really hard to read.

    Rule of thumb.....

    Beginning of quote =



    Ending of quote = the same as above but with a / in front of the word quote. I can't actually write that out or it will "quote" what I just wrote! LOL!

    If you hit the edit button you can go back in and amend those quotes.
    Ok will do thanks

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