Potty Training Advice for a 3+ year old?

[2cuteboys]

So I was hoping to get some expert input on a possible new potty training tactic... And this post got out of hand in a hurry, sorry for the length!

A little background - this particular dcb is 3.3 years old, parents just started potty training (we're in week 3), though he's been in pull-ups (or as I like to call them, diapers ) since February. The approach we've taken is pretty much the standard we take you, you go - get a candy, you don't go - try again next time. It's going fairly well and he's completely independent in the routine (aside from some help getting re-dressed and washing hands), so I feel like he should be starting to go independently or at least tell me when he needs to go. He is also generally dry after nap, so I know he can go at least 2-3 hours without "going."

Two problems
1) He doesn't tell me when he needs to go, I don't think he gets the sensation of urgency, or being wet, because he's always been in something that would pull the moisture away. He'll also tell me that he's dry when he's not, and has told me he pooped when he hasn't (when I asked him if he pooped). I've been trying to encourage parents to do the underwear-under-pullup thing but they don't seem into it...
2) If I put him on the potty he usually always produces something and gets a reward, which in itself is fine. But I will have him go and then go back on a half hour later (I usually do it before we eat, before we go outside, and before nap - sometimes these are close together) and he's gone in his pull-up and will go again in the potty just a bit... and is then rewarded again.

I'm considering starting to reward him for having dry pants, rather than simply going on the potty. I'd never try this with an early trainer, but I feel like at his age he'd be able to get it, and if not than at least we'd have some more information about his abilities. Has anyone tried this? Would you recommend it or no? Does anyone have anything else they might have tried that you think might be more effective?

*Side note:I'd also like to reward him for asking to go or going independently, but feel kind of like it might be a sticking point with him - he's very much babied at home, and needs to be led to any and all activities or will ask permission. I think it's going to be an obstacle for him to learn to do this independently so trying for dry bum first might be a better transition for him.*

[Daisy123]

Hi! Potty training- not my favourite aspect of the job. I'd definitely try rewarding him for dry bums and not going on the potty. It's time that he acknowledges the act of "going" in the proper place. it sounds that he might be playing you a bit and taking the path of least resistance. he's just so used to having a dirty diaper that he doesn't care. I like to give out stickers instead of candy because it's something visible that they can continue seeing and be reminded of. I give the child a square of construction paper that is kept in the washroom for the day. Each time they have a clean bum they get to pick a sticker from our special sticker box. I try to change up the stickers according to what the child likes ie dogs, trucks etc. At the end of the day they get to bring their sticker card home to mom and dad. That being said, I've also, encountered children who didn't care about reward. For them it was the whole extrinsic reward versus intrinsic reward thing. They had to want to do it to please themselves. Hang in there though. As frustrating as it will come.

[Crayola kiddies]

Hi I don't give candy either but stickers as well and I have a sticker chart. So yes I agree you need to up the ante. He's squeezing out something just to get the candy. Does he know when he has to go? Chances are at 3 the answer is yes. So I would sit him down today and tell him that unless he comes to you and tells you he has to go to the potty he does not get a reward. So if you take him to the potty and he pees but didn't say anything to you then no reward. I had an over three yr old just starting to train and after about three weeks I told him that if he tells me he has to pee he gets a sticker ..... If he goes in his pants he goes to the time out circle..... He only went to the time put circle once..... That was enough!!!!! However thus only works for kids who know when they gave to go but are choosing to go in their pants .... This is not for the newly two yr old that truly just doesn't get it yet.

[Momof4]

My rewards are hugs and applause for children who are practicing on the toilet. I use the word GOOD PRACTICE in front of the parents because that's what it is. But if the parents have found something that works at home I will do it, candies, stickers, whatever, but I don't implement the system. I stress to my clients that they are in charge of toilet practice and that when they seriously start to understand what is happening I will place their child on the potty in the morning before we go outside, before naptime and after naptime, so 3 times/day for practice. Please don't take this responsibility on yourself, it is the parent's responsibility and we are busy with 5 children (or more in some cases). Parents have 1 child usually and should be doing the hard work to get the children started.

Parents think that they put their child on the potty every 1/2 hour and something happens once in a while and the child is trained. NO! That's just working the odds! When a child knows they have to go and tell me, then they are trained and we get to the bathroom fast, no matter what the time of day. I give it 100% when that happens for the child.

It's a long process for most children. For others it happens quickly. You never know. But I've had children in pullups until they leave for JK because I'm not washing bedding every night or messes from my carpets or furniture. I'm too busy.

Good luck!

[2cuteboys]

I try to avoid the whole candy-as-reward thing as well, but the parents and myself have found praise ineffective with him... To be honest he's a bit if a space cadet and I'm pretty sure even when he's focused, he's not entirely focused. I've had a bit if success with stickers coupled with the candy, so I'm hoping to fade rewards into just stickers shortly.

I agree with responses: he's ready to be a bit challenged, there's no risk for him yet, since he's almost always able to push something out, even when he's gone in his pants.

I do really want his parents to step up though, especially involving having him in underwear or cloth training pants at home (I've suggested even an hour or two once a day would help). I'm not sure he knows the difference between wet and dry, so I think a lot of the problem is coming from there. To be honest, I'm tired of changing poopy pull- ups, so for now it's worth the hassle for me to avoid that.

[2cuteboys]

Update to the above situation:

Dcb was doing alright until sept. long weekend - maybe 1-2 dry pants per day, would poop consistently in potty when I put him on (if I leave him on for a few minutes he tries to o something, usually resulted in a bm), for which he was getting praise and stickers, as I'm trying to reserve candy or dry/clean pants. He was still having a lot of pee accidents in his pull-up a lot.

After sept long weekend (had 4 days away), he came back and had started pooping in his pants again, even minutes after getting off the potty. He's never asked me to go to the bathroom, but generally if he had to go he'd go when he was on, as he's there pretty often.

I gave it a week or so before mentioning it to the parents. My thought was that they'd dropped the ball over the weekend and stopped trying, thus the lack of progress and slight regression. I spoke to mom about it and she told me they've been putting him on every hour at home (and he screams and cries when they do it), and have had very little success. Mom thinks he doesn't have the control or awareness to know when he needs to go and hold it until he can get to the bathroom.

I'm torn on what to do next. I've narrowed it down to two things going wrong:
1) He doesn't have the control or awareness and thus isn't ready. With a younger child I'd be inclined to take a break and try again later, but this child is 3.5 years! I've suspected slight developmental delays (have been communicated to parents, they aren't concerned), maybe this is related.
2) This is more of a behavioural issue (especially given the new info that he has tantrums over it at home). This kid has EVERYTHING done for him at home and knows that it's easier to have his bum changed in 5 minutes, then to get up, leave his toy, tell me he needs to go, and make our way there and do the whole routine.

Any thought on where to go next? I'd have very different approaches for the two, so I was hoping someone else might have some insight as to why this is happening, or what to do next?

Thanks in advance ladies! I really appreciate it!

[Daisy123]

Assuming that there are no physical problems, it could simply be a control issue. The question in this case would be is it worth the fight right now. The adults want him trained, he doesn't. Whether he's physically not ready or behaviorally not ready might be irrelevant. Maybe backing off for a while might be in everyone's interest. It might seem like giving in but, really, he's winning by going in his diaper and not on the toilet anyways. You might continue having him sit on the toilet regardless but downplay the issue. If he's late training so be it but he will train eventually. I've heard of other kids his age with the same issue and sometimes backing off actually does wonders.

[Fun&care]

A child should NEVER EVER EVER be forced to sit on the potty! Ever! The parents are turning this into a power struggle! Read pretty much any article on potty training, any kind of negativity can destroy your efforts to potty train. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be positive, if the child has an accident it's " oh well, we' ll try again next time" and if child doesn't want to sit on the potty, he doesn't want to sit on the potty. Let it go. You have to find other ways of encouraging him without putting any pressure. I know it's tricky but I have found that any kind of negativity or pressure will cause a regression. I know because I made every mistake in the book when I potty trained my son and have since done lots of research good luck.

[2cuteboys]

Thanks for the responses ladies. I'm going to try to push parents to let it go for a few weeks. Maybe we can hype it up enough to get him excited for it in the meantime.

And to clarify, he's never cried/screamed over the potty at my house. He may not be exceptionally thrilled with it, but always goes the first time i ask regardless. I've told the parents I won't force him to go if he doesn't want to, especially at this point. Mom and dad aren't super knowledgable in this area and they've had more than one slip up like this (he said something once about "bad boys poop in their pants"), but they've been open to advice from me, which is one plus.