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  1. #1
    Expansive... Judy Trickett's Avatar
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    Adios Amigas....

    I am outta here! Yep, gone, leaving, never to return..........

    It has dawned on me, via a few recent threads, that daycare bear is very much a parent-centric forum. And the reason this is not okay is because it boasts itself as a daycare provider forum and site. The sole purpose of daycarebear is to make an income from providers who use their database services to post their daycare openings. Well, as the old saying goes, you can't bite the hand that feeds. Daycarebear exists, and makes money solely off of dcproviders. So it also goes to say that you can not have a forum wherein you welcome providers in an attempt, yet again, to boost revenue (by ads on page refreshing - YES, daycarebear, like any other website that appears "free" to use counts on its members to have ads in their face all day) and then not support those providers while using the forum.

    In recent weeks there have been a number of threads started by parents wherein the parents were allowed to post inane, nonsensical threads but providers, when simply answering the questions posted truthfully and without filtering were asked to be "respectful". And then, of course, those posts are closed.

    Well, daycarebear, I respectfully say that you seem more intent on supporting parents than you do dcproviders. And it's not even that I (we) ask that you pick sides but a little equality would be nice considering that the very providers you quash and close posts on are the ones paying your bills.

    Daycare is a much unappreciated and thankless job. And, sadly, there are no water coolers with co-workers hanging around in our playrooms with which to vent our concerns, as does every single other segment of EVERY other working profession. So, in short, providers come here, to a forum. And once again, oftentimes, instead of receiving the support that is very much needed providers are give rainbow and sunshine responses and/or berated from those in the same profession. And God-forbid anyone give an honest-to-God, REAL unabashed answer or they are warned to be "respectful". DaycareBear has simply fallen into the societal norm of undervaluing and constantly wanting to stifle and negative talk from daycare providers. Well, I have a newsflash for you......we are not some Polly Anna, Rosy-cheeked, overweight cherub of a grandmother who feels like being walked on and disrespected. We have a RIGHT to be heard as well.

    Maybe the name should be changed from DaycareBear to DaycareDiarrhea? You know, something more fitting?

    I have always said that daycare forum saves childrens' lives. And I still believe that to be true. But I have to amend my original statement to say that REAL, HONEST daycare forums save kids' lives.

    Anyway, I'm outta here. If you want to find me you know where I am.

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  3. #2
    Expansive... Artsand crafts's Avatar
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    Too bad you are leaving. So much can be learn with different opinions, even if they are heading opposite directions. What would be the point of hearing always the same answers in those kinds of threats you are talking about? No much to take out of it really when we don't have an open mind.... Other new providers, won't get to read your point of view that I think many of us had learn a lot from.

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  5. #3
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    I am going to have to agree with Judy here, big time.

    I really don't understand the tone of the moderators here.

    I am a rational person. I realize that not everyone here is out to get everyone else. I realize that some actually do have a more optimistic response to things than others and it works for them. I get that. I do not sugar coat my answers because I believe a straight-forward answer helps me out the most, so that is the way I tend to help others. I think those opinions are just as appropriate and valuable to answering a query than a sympathetic ear. That is not "harsh", it is just my own truth I am speaking. I hope it helps the people I tell it to.

    The fact is, this is a forum that mainly was SUPPOSED to be for daycare providers, a place for support, for ideas, and to occasionally vent. At least, that is what the forum headings tell me. There is only one small subforum for parents, and several more out there on the world wide web if they want to complain about their provider. But anyone with any sort of common sense would know that if you wanted a provider's opinion, this is where we hang out. We should be able to ask questions. We should be able to get answers. We should be able to debate and disagree, and people coming to that forum should be able to handle that without hurt feelings.

    Some of the parents that come here have legitimate questions and they are dealt with sympathetically and rationally and that parent is usually grateful and goes on their way. However, if we read a post that complains about a daycare, NAMES them, or makes a giddy "mission accomplished" post after she posts slanderous material, why is it disrespectful to call that into question? Why were posters like darasmommy allowed such leniency for so many months to criticize us and say terrible things before you finally banned them? Why is it okay for a parent to say she is taking a daycare to court for Human Rights abuses and she is still continuing to bring her child there? Why can we not truthfully examine the true causes of aggressive behavior at daycare? Why not? Aren't these things that we should be examining as providers that care to do their job correctly? Didn't these posters bring these topics to us providers themselves TO analyze?

    Now, I do realize that some posts from providers ARE rude. I personally have taken issue with daycarewhisperer's posts as of late. Her homophobic rant on the transgender thread made me want to puke. So if that was the post that made you close it, I get that. However, do NOT paint us all with the same brush. Do not post a generic, passive aggressive "be kind, ladies!", because that is exactly what you are doing and it is infuriating. It does nothing to diffuse the situation. Call the troublemaker out. We are here to give our opinions that are sometimes not popular, but they are still valid and it is terrible to read a condescending post like that when you have spent a lot of time trying to analyze a poster's situation and HELP them.

    The other problem with asking US to act respectfully, is you do NOT ask the few parents that are posting nonsensically to act respectfully. You tell us to use our ignore button. YOU, mamaof4 are creating the US versus THEM atmosphere by treating us differently, and I think we are right to take offense. Some posts have called us mean and hateful and that we shouldn't be in business. Some post have made claims about their providers that could have ended their business. When some prodding happened a lot of these claims turned out to be false or made out of spite. Those posts HARM providers. And you have posted many times in favor of the parents doing this and that we should "be kind" while they do this. A parent will not lose their livelihood over a complaint, but a provider might. If that provider is not around to defend themselves, why is it bad that we check out all angles in a provider forum to see if it is actually the truth before ultimately ruining someone's career or harming their business?

    I'm going to post this before you put in your final word and close the thread, because that appears to be your current go-to. I'd love to keep this discussion open if possible. I think this place has great potential, but we need to be treated equally. For now, I am mostly disappointed with the way things have been handled and I am sorry to see Judy go, but I don't blame her. Honestly.

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  7. #4
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    Very well said ladybug, I completely agree! What other forums are for providers only? I get that were not always going to share the same views on here but the "real" people have always been appreciated!

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  9. #5
    Starting to feel at home... jammiesandtea's Avatar
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    I fully agree with all of your points, Judy. I know many others agree as well.

    I feel the same as you do, though I wish you weren't leaving, because I strongly feel that this forum needs your input and your candid, unvarnished viewpoint to counteract the rainbow/lollipop brigade that rules the roost here. The world needs not only the pollyanna hand-holders, but the ones who can call a spade a spade with some tough "love", as well.

    The truth is, I am actually a very positive, encouraging, glass-half-full, attitude-of-gratitude kinda chick in my "real" life (most of the time, haha)... but not to the degree that I can or want to live in denial or refuse to deal with reality. That's my issue with the rainbow/lollipop brigade. I'm not just inherently negative or bitter without cause. I've been in the business of teaching and raising other people's children for many years, so as Dr. Phil so eloquently puts it: "This 'aint my first rodeo."

    So, two things, regarding the topics that regularly get my goat in this business (and on these boards):

    One: Daycare parents, most or many of them, either from the beginning or eventually, will disrespect, screw over, make things very difficult, and in general be simply unappreciative of the job we do, in caring for and teaching their children during the most formative years of their lives (during which we as daycare providers have them for the majority of their waking hours). If you're a provider and haven't yet experienced this as being true with most or many of your daycare parents (eventually), then A) you're doing an OUTSTANDING job at screening them before accepting them to care, and you must live in an area where filling spots is like shooting fish in a barrel (not that I condone shooting fish in a barrel, lol), or you don't desperately need the income and can afford to hold out for such rare Golden parents and kids... or B) you're very new to this business and when we ask you again down the road a bit, you'll nod your head in agreement to this part of my post.

    Two: I see a lot of posts here about there being "many different styles of parenting" and how all of them are right and none of us should judge any methods (or lack thereof) because every parent has their own style and "what works for them". Except that usually, if we're discussing their parenting style here on a forum because they've asked for help, it means that their parenting "style" ISN'T WORKING. Their kid "isn't socialized", or is "aggressive", or maybe throws "dramatic meltdowns" when they don't get their own way (to quote some recently used buzzwords from this forum). Those are irrefutable signs that your "parenting style" needs a re-think.

    The un-sugar-coated fact is, not all parenting styles are "OK". The permissive, indulgent child raising philosophies that have become popular in recent years, are turning out a bunch of spoiled-brat, entitled, unsuccessful-at-life human beings who never move out of their parents' basement or end up in jail. And the "attachment parented" kids are NOT in any way, shape, or form prepared for the realities of group care, and it's so incredibly selfish and short-sighted of parents to choose this philosophy/method and then subject their child and the child's daycare provider to the HELL that ensues when an AP kid is then put into a group care situation that is by virtue of its definition, completely unable to meet the needs and expectations that this child has been conditioned and trained to demand.

    So, no, not all parenting styles are A-OK, and requiring people to refrain from trying to educate and help someone who has chosen an untenable method and is asking for advice on the result of that choice... or else we are labeled "disrespectful". .. well, that is nonsensical.

    "Disrespectful" (on a forum) is calling someone derogatory names, cursing at them, etc. Disagreeing with them, pointing out the inconsistencies or believability in their story, or calling attention to their child rearing methods that are having undesired consequences and recommending alternate methods based on experience, is not disrespectful.

    With all due respect.




    This board will be less fortunate to be without your contributions, Judy, but luckily, I do know where to find you!

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  11. #6
    Euphoric !
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    Jammie's .... Good golly I think we were separated at birth !!!

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  13. #7
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    Moderating the forum

    You may notice I removed a thread that was getting contentious and was in general attention seeking and disrespectful.

    I do not like to call out individual users so I keep it to a general be kind.

    There is a distinct difference between sugar-coating and being kind. You can be be supportive and helpful without making a parent feel humiliated and defensive.

    That is where my issue lies. Part of it is there are many more daycare providers on this site than parents so it is very easy for a parent to feel ganged upon.

    Some users were pretty unkind and unhelpful, telling a parent that she had not done her job to socialize her child and that he had spent 2 years being the biggest fish in the pond. The parent only asked how long daycare providers give kids to settle in. Some providers instead of answering her questions attacked her and made her feel poorly. That is not okay.

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  15. #8
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    mamaof4

    so you are a mod who decides when a discussion is being disrespectful and gets to lock it or delete it. Who are the other mods? are there any or are you the only one?

    Reason I am asking is because we all love a good DISCUSSION, seeing others viewpoints and at no time did I sense any disrespect in that thread. Differences of opinions yes, some high and mighties, yes.

    If you are the only mod on here maybe it is time we take a vote and see if we want to continue with you as our mod or if we should have others? It is a democratic society is it not?

    Put it to a vote and put your money where your mouth is, before we lose any more members that are done with your dictatorship of deciding when a post is bashing and furthermore deleting someones goodbye message seems a little unmod like to me, more like jealousy or hatred since you may not have the same respect and following. Sorry for the run on sentence, fell free to delete for bad grammar

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  17. #9
    Euphoric ! mimi's Avatar
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    I am angry that the moderator has removed Judy's post and subsequent posts. I feel an important discussion has just been stymied in the name of politeness. I would like to see how others feel about what Judy has said. In essence, she (we) have been gagged. This is disgusting. No one was being abusive, they were just being honest.

    Judy, expressed her opinion in a mature manner, so basically does the moderator have to like us in order for us to be able to see our posts continue into a discussion? I hope this gets read before it gets removed.
    I don't suffer fools well, and this was a foolish move.

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  19. #10
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    I think you missed the point of the original post. However your reaction to the post proved the point perfectly. You could answered the post honestly and shown respect to the forum members who raised lots of good points, without censoring the ideas of others on this forum to make your own point. Instead you deleted any mention of dissatisfaction with your ability as a moderator here and did a separate post instead.

    Being fed up enough to leave and tell you why is not attention seeking. Maybe if she was hoping to be talked into staying, I would consider that attention seeking. But Judy left this forum and didn't look back. However, deleting posts that criticize you and feeling the need to start your own posts to make your point and save face IS attention seeking behavior, in my personal opinion. People should get a chance to see both sides and form their own opinions, and you deleted that option. Why would you do that? Why not let both sides be shown and let the chips fall where they may?

    You still have not addressed why you treat providers differently and parents differently on this forum, which I think is the main part of the problem. It can't be just that they are outnumbered. Darasmommy was just one voice and she did tons of damage here to many nice providers while you allowed her to abuse us, and just told us to "be kind" and use our ignore button. Just wondering why the same modicum of respect is not granted to us. I look forward to your comments. I hope this comment is not deleted. However, if it is, you will only be proving our point further.

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