Trumped by cheaper rates...again.

[bright sparks]

So I interviewed a lovely family last week for September start when one of my current guys will be staying home with mom on mat leave. Interview went well and the mother said she really liked everything about my daycare program. She had another interview already scheduled that she wanted to honor and I said it was always a good idea to meet with multiple providers to get a real sense of their different options. She said she would call me today to let me know either way.

She just called and said she thought we were both equally great providers and didn't like one more than another so it came down to rate. I asked how much the other provider was charging and she said she charges by the hour so for the 8 hours it is $36 ($4.50 per hour) SO their rate is in fact the same as mine, $45 a day but I charge for the day which is 7:30-5:30 (10hrs) and this provider found a loop hole to undercut others. Clever or crafty, I don't know.

I understand the parents choice to go with her. It wasn't because she was cheaper No1, but because they liked us equally that's how they were able to make their choice.

I'm just gonna have to keep waiting for a family to sign on. I have one spot open now, for over about 18mths now and then another opening up in September. I'm actually trying to get an additional job to make up the difference in income if I have any chance of getting my finances in order for giving up work August of next year to go to school.

I'm not annoyed but a little disheartened. It's not something I can control or about doing anything differently. Just luck of the draw which can sometimes just be a bit crappy

[5 Little Monkeys]

That would be disappointing for sure!! I'm assuming the other dcprovider charges only for hours used to discourage parents from staying right until close because they are paying for it? I charge for the day too but have it in my contract that I expect pick up shortly after their shift has ended. (I have one more week of being done early and than I have a new family starting who needs care right until my end time I'm sad lol but needed to fill the spot) A friend of mine who charged hourly said that all of her parents picked up as early as possible so they weren't charged as much. I personally don't like that method as our income is already inconsistent and I thought this method just made it worse. Plus, the way she did it, she got paid after care was given and that is a big no no to me! lol

I have been in the same situation as you...parents like me and my dc but choose a cheaper dc if they like us both equally. It sucks but I understand. I have had 2 who went to cheaper dc's and than asked later if they could have the spot here because things didn't work out with the other dc....both times I had already filled the spot so it wasn't an option.

From what I have read here, you provide great care so I am sure someone will take your spot, hopefully quickly!!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I'm confused as to how you came to those conclusions luppernoodle? I took it as the parents only need care for a total of 8 hours.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I guess it depends where you live. Very few of my kids are here for long days because one parent drops off and the other picks up because they have different shifts. I also have a few who don't even work 8 hours a day but are still considered full time employed.

I just thought it was odd that you assumed the parents wouldn't have factored all that into their decision. I guess I assumed also though and figured the 8 hours they need care for is the total number including commuting! Anyways, doesn't matter, I just wondered! lol

[bright sparks]

I guess it depends where you live. Very few of my kids are here for long days because one parent drops off and the other picks up because they have different shifts. I also have a few who don't even work 8 hours a day but are still considered full time employed.

I just thought it was odd that you assumed the parents wouldn't have factored all that into their decision. I guess I assumed also though and figured the 8 hours they need care for is the total number including commuting! Anyways, doesn't matter, I just wondered! lol

I think you are most likely correct 5LM. I don't like sweeping statements as a rule as in "all full time working parent's work 8 hour days" Well not all full time daycare kids have two parents working 40 hour weeks. Some work shorter hours but have longer commutes, some start very early and finish early or start late and finish late. I have a parent for example who commutes from Niagara region to downtown TO and she leaves at 5:30 to take the GO bus and starts at 8. She finishes at 3:00 and gets the bus home. She doesn't get into the local GO station until between 4:30 and 5 as the traffic varies greatly on the highway. She only works 7 hour days. Her husband starts later and drops off at 7:30 and she picks up as she is back earlier. I have had more families who do not work an 8 hour day or 9-5 job than those who do. Also where I live a phenomenal amount of people commute to TO which is typically 1 1/2 hours- 2 hrs during rush hour, if you are lucky. There are many more family friendly companies now that are allowing for much more flexible work schedules to accommodate working parents. You can't paint everyone with the same brush and the 8 hour working day model is reducing constantly and has been for quite some time.

I do think that the family who I interviewed are foolish to restrict themselves to the 8 hour day. I know people charge for a set amount of hours but I don't. Peoples contracts have their start time and finish time so they aren't making a habit of coming right at opening, and picking up right at the last minute if they don't need to, but if I parent typically picks up at 4 for example and they have an occasional late meeting or appointment or get held up, as long as I know in advance and they are here before closing time there is no additional charge. If it becomes to regular then I discuss with them that these aren't the terms of the contract. They always have to ask my permission in advance of making changes at which time I can say no if it doesn't fit into my schedule. By restricting themselves to the 8 hour day even though the provider is open earlier and later, whenever they are running late, or when the reality sets in the google maps travel time and actual travel time are very different in reality, then they will be paying the same as they would have with me but without the potential hassle that they are "late". They are a nice family and I don't think ill of them at all. I think they are thinking properly about what they need as a family both in quality childcare and financially. I don't think this providers method of charging is a reflection of the type of care she gives, how on earth could I know?? If the family were to come back to me in the future I would certainly entertain them as I respect their honesty and sometimes its just a case of new parent's not knowing any better and this will be a lesson to them. I actually hope for the child's sake that this just works out great for them. They didn't come to me and while my business is my number one priority, in the grand scheme of things, it is the child's care that should be top priority even if that means they are with someone else.

[momofnerds]

well, I do contract hours. Anything over 4 hours is a full time spot which is 30 dollars for a day up to 9 hours, but anything after 5pm is additional regardless of contract hours. I work 7 to 5 everyday, but that doesn't mean you leave your kids here all day. And its rare that I have kids here for more than 9 hours and I live in the county so to get to the city is a bit of a drive.

and maybe the parents don't need those long hours. I wouldn't pay for extra hours if I didn't need them, that sounds dumb. So really the other provider isn't undercutting you, she gave them the price for the hours they needed.

luppernoodle, I think your assumption that the provider is illegal is so stupid, really because she charges by the hour. Sorry lady give your head a shake. So because I charge 30 dollars a full time spot I'm running illegally. Its people like you who give daycare providers a bad name. You don't know were we live or our reasoning for our prices, but to go around saying "illegal" is just as bad as those newspapers who are calling us illegal!

[bright sparks]

well, I do contract hours. Anything over 4 hours is a full time spot which is 30 dollars for a day up to 9 hours, but anything after 5pm is additional regardless of contract hours. I work 7 to 5 everyday, but that doesn't mean you leave your kids here all day. And its rare that I have kids here for more than 9 hours and I live in the county so to get to the city is a bit of a drive.

and maybe the parents don't need those long hours. I wouldn't pay for extra hours if I didn't need them, that sounds dumb. So really the other provider isn't undercutting you, she gave them the price for the hours they needed.

luppernoodle, I think your assumption that the provider is illegal is so stupid, really because she charges by the hour. Sorry lady give your head a shake. So because I charge 30 dollars a full time spot I'm running illegally. Its people like you who give daycare providers a bad name. You don't know were we live or our reasoning for our prices, but to go around saying "illegal" is just as bad as those newspapers who are calling us illegal!

As I acknowledged in my last post momofnerds, I have found that most providers on here charge for contracted hours as do I, which I explained I just don't charge late fees if their has been advanced arrangements made for an occasional later pick or earlier drop off if it is still within my open hours. I don't think it's "dumb" to pay for 2 extra hours when a provider such as myself charges for a day, because this avoids any late fees when real life happens and people get held up for any number of reasons. This provider is charging hourly which is not the norm in general and certainly not in my area so she has cleverly found a way to undercut those of us who charge a flat rate which is very clever but potentially problematic when a parent goes over the 8 hours because they are stuck in traffic or similar. Maybe you don't think it is undercutting but pick a different word if you like. I feel like it is undercutting those of us who charge a flat rate and kudos for her for being business smart if that works for her. However, charging a lower rate because a parent wants shorter days does absolutely nothing to help me as a business owner when the chances of filling the leftover hours is slim so if anything is dumb, that practice is. It only puts money in the parent's pocket, not mine and really that's not how successful business' make money. I am flexible enough that I don't charge a late fee if the parent picks up later but before I close so it's not like I'm not more than fair to parent's. I'm not giving them a reduced rate because they need a shorter day. My cell phone bill isn't discounted because I turn it off at night!

[momofnerds]

acually what she is doing is smart. think about it, she is charging for 8 hours 36 dollars, and the parents realize its taking them an additional 2 hours in communte time, well then its 46 dollars, so really no savings really. It always looks nice and dandy now till reality sets in and so does the drive time. And I've had tell me I'm too expensive, the best one was the mom who wanted to pay 25 dollars a day so she can save the other 5 dollars for her cigarrettes lol, I will never ever forget her lol!

[5 Little Monkeys]

I can see both sides, charging per hour and per day. I personally do per day because I find it is more beneficial for me to do that and it keeps my income a little more consistent. I don't think those who charge per hour are providing lesser care and I've never considered them to be undercutting me but I can see your point BS and now do agree somewhat. I've seen a few who charge per hour but I don't really think it's common in my area but maybe it is and I just haven't noticed. I do what's best for me and if a parent doesn't like it, so be it. I can't please everyone so I do what makes sense for me. I am pretty laid back and accommodating though so most parents appreciate this and know not to take advantage of me because they know other dc's won't be so flexible. I tend to deal with things as case by case and choose my battles. There have been times I have let things slide and other times where I put my foot down whether it pisses the parent off or not. It all depends on how much it matters in the grand scheme of things.

Even though I charge per day, I have had VERY few who were here open to close because I ask they pick up within a reasonable time after their shift has ended. I don't charge a late fee until my official closing time though because there are days that a parent will ask if it's okay if their child stays here longer so they can do an errand, attend a meeting, go to a dr's appt etc. As long as it doesn't become a daily or even weekly thing, I don't mind as they are paying for the day.

I agree with you BS. Altho I would always love to fill my spots quickly, I am more about a parent choosing a dc that suits them and their child best because that is what I would want if I was looking for childcare. I have had a couple parents tell me they are meeting with a cheaper dcp and if they like them as much as me, they will choose them due to finances. I always make sure to tell them that I fully understand that and will not hold that against them!! I watch where my money goes too so I completely understand having to choose things based on price sometimes. Some parents come here after meeting the cheaper dcp and some don't and that's okay. Sometimes it works out for them and sometimes they come back and ask if my spot is still available. I actually prefer if a parent checks out other dc's and than chooses me because it assures me that I am offering quality care. I have heard stories of other dc's but have not been in many other hdc's so I have nothing to compare mine too, so it's nice to hear from parents when they say they liked mine best. (I hope that doesn't sound snotty...I just mean a parent telling me that is like a job evaluation in my mind.)

[bright sparks]

acually what she is doing is smart. think about it, she is charging for 8 hours 36 dollars, and the parents realize its taking them an additional 2 hours in communte time, well then its 46 dollars, so really no savings really. It always looks nice and dandy now till reality sets in and so does the drive time. And I've had tell me I'm too expensive, the best one was the mom who wanted to pay 25 dollars a day so she can save the other 5 dollars for her cigarrettes lol, I will never ever forget her lol!

Definitely smart, I said so too. It never fails to amaze me how many parents don't think to keep this nonsense to themselves. It's like we will high five them or something if they are open and honest about stupid things.