To claim or not to claim

[kassiemom]

hey,
so i know there are many different ways of running a home daycare. i am wondering if anyone know if it is financially better to offer receipts or not. and how much extra you charge if you do offer receipts.

[mickyc]

Always claim your income! I don't understand why someone wouldn't provide receipts if you are claiming it anyways. Also what parent wouldn't want a receipt to claim on their taxes?

I charge what I charge and it is the same regardless.

[kassiemom]

well if someone doesn't claim the income they wouldn't give receipts

[5 Little Monkeys]

To my knowledge.....it is illegal to not claim income. Even if you classify yourself as a babysitter and not a dcp, it is still income you are to claim.

Parents will want to claim Childcare as well so I imagine it would be hard to find parents who are okay with no receipts. I've only been asked once if they could pay less and not get a receipt. My answer is no. I'm not willing to go to jail lol

[Rachael]

The only reason I can see for not offering receipts, is so you are able to leave that income undeclared i.e. work under the table.

I feel really strongly about this.

Not declaring your income is tax fraud. It is a criminal offence - and not only that - it's beyond selfish.

I am a single parent. I don't get any income other than from my business. I get no child support - nothing. Even so, I declare every single penny I earn because guess what - that's the law! I have no pension, no health care, no chance of ever retiring and I live in a Province that has the highest taxes in the whole country.

Not only are people who work under the table being sneaky and dishonest, but they are gaining benefit from the taxes I pay whilst holding onto their own funds and not contributing equally to tax funded elements of this country. Futhermore, those who happen to be parents too, are artificially lowering their household income on their tax return, which results in a higher payment of child tax credit then they are entitled to as that is means tested.

So, funds straight in pocket with no taxes paid on them, using services which I am funding, and also swiping my tax dollars again for their own family by false claims of entitlement for family credit each month. Lowest of the low.

No different than someone breaking into my house and stealing my possessions - selfish, criminal activity where the rest of us have to pay for consequences. I hope someone who works for CRA finds out and I hope you are audited back the full 7 years and fined steeply.

[kassiemom]

I hope someone who works for CRA finds out and I hope you are audited back the full 7 years and fined steeply.

Rachel - THIS is not an OPINION this is clear hatred. I really am angry that there are people like you on here who do not make the forum a welcoming place where women with a common interest can work together to provide the best care possible for the children.

[Rachael]

The best possible care for children does not come from cheap care, dishonesty providers whose business can be closed without notice. How is any of that in the interests of the child.

A common interest where we can all work together to provide the best care comes from ...
1. Running an above board business which is at no risk of being shut down and therefore provides a stable environment.
2. Leading by example and showing children that although dishonesty might benefit them in the short term, it is immoral and selfish to break the laws for personal gain.
3. By investing in yourself and being educated in the field you work, you can provide a higher quality service and gain training which assists in helping each child reach their potential.
4. By declaring all your income in an above board manner, you are also able to honestly claim for true business expenses. This allows a carer to provide nutritious food and quality toys and supplies.

Working under the table drives down the price of honest carers who do all of the above. Once the market is saturated with people charging less because they are lining their own pockets and screwing over their friends, neighbours and community, then the value of the service is seen as being less. This results in people working long hours for barely a couple of bucks per hour and out of that paying for food and supplies. As a point of necessity, the quality of food and supplies also falls because it's coming out of reduced fees - explain to me how any of thus is working towards the best care for the children?

Choose to be angry about my presence if you so wish but I am entertained by the irony of you being angry because I do indeed hope if you are working under the table, you are found out and pay a high price for doing it vs you not understanding that even considering this is deplorable.

You are all ready to call me out for not making the forum welcoming and yet you refuse to see that cheats, tax evaders, and dishonesty are highly offensive to those who do follow the law. Damn right I have no intentions of being welcoming to criminal activity and damn right I won't be warm and fuzzy to such selfish members of society.

You have got your panties all in a bunch because you find my comments rude and unwelcoming but you fully choose to miss the point that you are considering (or already) at tax cheat, dishonest, not looking after the interests of the child but more so your own bank balance, are setting a terrible example of doing the right thing. The irony of that level of self-righteousness has to burn.

Hatred no - I've never hated anyone - disgust and contempt, absolutely, but I have disgust and contempt for anyone who thinks they are above the rules for personal gain.

[AmandaKDT]

Rachel, had to occurred to you that perhaps Kassiemom was asking the question because she doesn't realize how serious of a nature it is to not make proper income tax claims? Making no assumption about Kassiemom, but there are a wide range of providers on this forum with a wide range of educational backgrounds. That is why there is this forum, to help support and educate each other.

Rachel, you have made very personal and hostile claims against someone you know nothing about. She asked a simple question and all you needed to do was answer it with the simple facts, instead of writing an essay about how horrible of a person she is.

[Rachael]

Rachel, had to occurred to you that perhaps Kassiemom was asking the question because she doesn't realize how serious of a nature it is to not make proper income tax claims? Making no assumption about Kassiemom, but there are a wide range of providers on this forum with a wide range of educational backgrounds. That is why there is this forum, to help support and educate each other.

Rachel, you have made very personal and hostile claims against someone you know nothing about. She asked a simple question and all you needed to do was answer it with the simple facts, instead of writing an essay about how horrible of a person she is.

I made no assumptions what-s-ever. If you read the full thread properly she clearly states...


"well if someone doesn't claim the income they wouldn't give receipts" which is a clear indication that she understood the only reason not to give receipts was because they wouldn't be claiming the income. Why would anyone knowingly reduce their claimed income unless they fully understood that doing so would reduce their tax bill?

Furthermore, she followed up that statement with this one...

" I just recently talked to someone who does it "under the table" and she made it sound so good that I thought i would see what my professional friends had to say." Again stating that the wrong action sounded sooooo goood that she thought she'd get the nod from everyone else and follow suit.

Personally, I don't for one second believe that she just recently talked to someone because if you read her history, when she asks based on a situation someone else is doing, she says so in her initial post.

She asked a simple question - and she got an honest answer. The fact she's all upset because she doesn't like my very strong feelings on this, is not my concern. She can choose to take my comments in any manner she wishes. She can choose to ignore it if she doesn't feel it's valid or justified.

OR she can do the right thing and report her colleague for working under the table (if this third party exists which I don't believe they do).

I did answer in simple facts. Let me reiterate them.

The simple facts are -
1. Working under the table is low. It's tax fraud and like any other crime, I hope those who participate in it, deal with the full consequences when caught including massive fines and fraud charges.
2. It drives down the value of child care as parents expect above board professionals to charge the same as tax cheats and criminals - it's like going to a high end salon and expecting First Choice Haircutters prices but sadly once the market is saturated with thrift stores, the quality places have to move and seek quality clients.
3. By reducing their real earning on their tax return - they are stealing directly out of my pocket. I have to pay more to cover the costs of services in my community when people are acting dishonestly because the costs have to be covered.
4. By reducing their real earnings on their tax return, they are also stealing from my tax dollars because as a parent of Cassie, she is claiming Child Tax Credit based on her lied about income level.

Again, she called me out with how hurt her feelings are but yet is seems perfectly fine that she's working under the table or accepting that from her peers.

[CrazyEight]

If you make more than $50 a week and you don't claim it, you are committing tax fraud, as the above poster mentioned, and it is illegal. There may BE "many ways to run a daycare," but there is only one legitimate way, by claiming all your income, all your expenses, and paying the taxes you owe. Sorry, just how it is.

I don't want to be harsh, but it's incredibly frustrating to see so many "babysitters" in my city blatantly stating in their ads that they don't offer receipts, usually because they're already collecting EI and don't want that to disappear once the government knows they're making other money. Again, this is also illegal. They are usually incredibly cheap, they are usually over in numbers (hey, if you're already breaking one law, why not break some more??), and since they can't claim food expenses in their tax deductions, my guess is that they feed their daycare kids as cheaply as possible, which is not always the healthiest.

Providers like this make the rest of us look like money-grabbing totalitarians, with our contracts, higher fees (to reflect things like taxes and expenses) and other rules. If every provider would simply abide by the LAW, our fees would at least all be in the same ballpark for our city and average income, and parents would stop assuming that every provider should offer full-time care for $15 a day!!

Just....no. Claim your income, pay your taxes, and realize all the benefits you get from those tax dollars. You may not always agree with it, but we live in Canada - that's how it is. I don't need to think about yet more people skirting the system to get out of paying taxes, and at the same time stealing clients away from legitimate business-owners who ARE following the rules, even if we don't always agree with them.