To claim or not to claim

[2cuteboys]

Claim it! Being audited isn't a pretty thing- and I'm NOT speaking from experience btw. It takes weeks of paperwork to prove what you've claimed and if you don't, there are fines (or worse) for fraud.

And to scare you a bit more, I've heard of people going into these arrangements with parents where they charge less per month in exchange for not providing receipts to claim - to have parents later turn around and demand receipts. And guess what, you'd have to by law. So not only are you out income for those 12 months, but you'll have to pay taxes on it as well.

[kassiemom]

I hope someone who works for CRA finds out and I hope you are audited back the full 7 years and fined steeply.

Rachel - THIS is not an OPINION this is clear hatred. I really am angry that there are people like you on here who do not make the forum a welcoming place where women with a common interest can work together to provide the best care possible for the children.

[Rachael]

The best possible care for children does not come from cheap care, dishonesty providers whose business can be closed without notice. How is any of that in the interests of the child.

A common interest where we can all work together to provide the best care comes from ...
1. Running an above board business which is at no risk of being shut down and therefore provides a stable environment.
2. Leading by example and showing children that although dishonesty might benefit them in the short term, it is immoral and selfish to break the laws for personal gain.
3. By investing in yourself and being educated in the field you work, you can provide a higher quality service and gain training which assists in helping each child reach their potential.
4. By declaring all your income in an above board manner, you are also able to honestly claim for true business expenses. This allows a carer to provide nutritious food and quality toys and supplies.

Working under the table drives down the price of honest carers who do all of the above. Once the market is saturated with people charging less because they are lining their own pockets and screwing over their friends, neighbours and community, then the value of the service is seen as being less. This results in people working long hours for barely a couple of bucks per hour and out of that paying for food and supplies. As a point of necessity, the quality of food and supplies also falls because it's coming out of reduced fees - explain to me how any of thus is working towards the best care for the children?

Choose to be angry about my presence if you so wish but I am entertained by the irony of you being angry because I do indeed hope if you are working under the table, you are found out and pay a high price for doing it vs you not understanding that even considering this is deplorable.

You are all ready to call me out for not making the forum welcoming and yet you refuse to see that cheats, tax evaders, and dishonesty are highly offensive to those who do follow the law. Damn right I have no intentions of being welcoming to criminal activity and damn right I won't be warm and fuzzy to such selfish members of society.

You have got your panties all in a bunch because you find my comments rude and unwelcoming but you fully choose to miss the point that you are considering (or already) at tax cheat, dishonest, not looking after the interests of the child but more so your own bank balance, are setting a terrible example of doing the right thing. The irony of that level of self-righteousness has to burn.

Hatred no - I've never hated anyone - disgust and contempt, absolutely, but I have disgust and contempt for anyone who thinks they are above the rules for personal gain.

[AmandaKDT]

Rachel, had to occurred to you that perhaps Kassiemom was asking the question because she doesn't realize how serious of a nature it is to not make proper income tax claims? Making no assumption about Kassiemom, but there are a wide range of providers on this forum with a wide range of educational backgrounds. That is why there is this forum, to help support and educate each other.

Rachel, you have made very personal and hostile claims against someone you know nothing about. She asked a simple question and all you needed to do was answer it with the simple facts, instead of writing an essay about how horrible of a person she is.

[Fun&care]

Rachael, although I agree with you that not claiming your income is not the best course of action for many reasons, I don't think there was any need to jump on kassiemom and make huge assumptions about her and her business. The truth is that although your original post did indeed have FACTS it also had harsh JUDGEMENTS about those facts. There really isn't any need for that. She asked a simple and pretty innocent question. Please show some empathy and respect.

[Rachael]

Rachel, had to occurred to you that perhaps Kassiemom was asking the question because she doesn't realize how serious of a nature it is to not make proper income tax claims? Making no assumption about Kassiemom, but there are a wide range of providers on this forum with a wide range of educational backgrounds. That is why there is this forum, to help support and educate each other.

Rachel, you have made very personal and hostile claims against someone you know nothing about. She asked a simple question and all you needed to do was answer it with the simple facts, instead of writing an essay about how horrible of a person she is.

I made no assumptions what-s-ever. If you read the full thread properly she clearly states...


"well if someone doesn't claim the income they wouldn't give receipts" which is a clear indication that she understood the only reason not to give receipts was because they wouldn't be claiming the income. Why would anyone knowingly reduce their claimed income unless they fully understood that doing so would reduce their tax bill?

Furthermore, she followed up that statement with this one...

" I just recently talked to someone who does it "under the table" and she made it sound so good that I thought i would see what my professional friends had to say." Again stating that the wrong action sounded sooooo goood that she thought she'd get the nod from everyone else and follow suit.

Personally, I don't for one second believe that she just recently talked to someone because if you read her history, when she asks based on a situation someone else is doing, she says so in her initial post.

She asked a simple question - and she got an honest answer. The fact she's all upset because she doesn't like my very strong feelings on this, is not my concern. She can choose to take my comments in any manner she wishes. She can choose to ignore it if she doesn't feel it's valid or justified.

OR she can do the right thing and report her colleague for working under the table (if this third party exists which I don't believe they do).

I did answer in simple facts. Let me reiterate them.

The simple facts are -
1. Working under the table is low. It's tax fraud and like any other crime, I hope those who participate in it, deal with the full consequences when caught including massive fines and fraud charges.
2. It drives down the value of child care as parents expect above board professionals to charge the same as tax cheats and criminals - it's like going to a high end salon and expecting First Choice Haircutters prices but sadly once the market is saturated with thrift stores, the quality places have to move and seek quality clients.
3. By reducing their real earning on their tax return - they are stealing directly out of my pocket. I have to pay more to cover the costs of services in my community when people are acting dishonestly because the costs have to be covered.
4. By reducing their real earnings on their tax return, they are also stealing from my tax dollars because as a parent of Cassie, she is claiming Child Tax Credit based on her lied about income level.

Again, she called me out with how hurt her feelings are but yet is seems perfectly fine that she's working under the table or accepting that from her peers.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Rachael, I fully agree with you that those who do not claim their income are selfish and ruining the business for the rest of us who are trying to run a legal business. HOWEVER, you are being very hostile towards the OP by believing your own assumptions of her. Unless I missed it, she didn't say she was doing this. Please don't attack others, it's so uncalled for. If you wanted to ask for clarification, by all means go ahead but don't assume things of others and than attack them for it! It only makes you look foolish.

I really enjoy this site and don't wish for it to become filled with negativity, personal attacks and assumptions. It really does no one any good. I look to dcbear for guidance, advice and I view many of you as virtual coworkers! Please don't ruin that

Kassiesmom...there really is no legal benefit to not claiming your income. Save yourself the stress and headaches you will endure thinking of the possibility of being caught and/or the actuality of being caught. Tax fraud is nothing to dismiss!! If caught, there are harsh consequences. Claim your income, inform your friend of the cons of doing it her way and feel good knowing you run a legal business!

[mickyc]

Wow Rachael, wow! Calm down.

Not everyone really understands or knows all the laws. She knows someone who is currently doing it and is telling her how wonderful it is to do it that way. Honestly if she decides to go this route it is her own business and it will be her that has to deal with the consequences of her actions. She asked a question, we all told her our opinions and now it is up to her to decide if she wants to go that route or not. Is it right, no but she certainly wouldn't be the first or the last to provide care "under the table". I hope that by coming here and asking our opinions that she decides this is not the way she wants to go.

kassiemom - please don't let one person's harsh words keep you from asking questions and posting on daycare bear. :-)

[Secondtimearound]

I also had a friend who didn't claim , she provided before and after care . It turned out really bad for her as she had finished doing her taxes and the family demanded receipts ! It was very frusterating to watch as she scrambled to figure it all out !
It is a benefit to the parent to claim .
I hope enough of us have answered in the same way so that your question was addressed !!
Not trying to rehash drama , but I think her question was on not claiming income , not Rachel's opinion of her not claiming income .

[mamaof4]

:mod:

We do not know for a fact that kassiesmom is doing anything other than asking a question. She wanted input- she got it. End of story.

Each of us is entitled to our own opinions, we are entitled and encouraged to feel strongly and passionately, and entitled to voice them- we are not entitled to attack or belittle each other.