Anybody in New Brunswick??

[CrazyEight]

My husband has just been offered a promotion that would mean a move to Fredericton, New Brunswick. Anybody here in Fredericton, or New Brunswick in general? I am trying to find the regulations....it looks like private home daycares can have 5 children, but must include their own until age 12...tell me that's not correct?? Any info would be much appreciated!

[Rachael]

It likely is - I'm in NS and we are only allow 6, including our own until our own reach their 12th birthday. It doesn't matter if our own children are never in the house in day care hours, it doesn't matter if our own children are actually step-children who are here 50% of the time only, it doesn't matter if our own are registered in programs elsewhere - any child who lives full or part-time at the address as a family member, is counted until they are 12 years old.

[Rachael]

Found this which suggests like NS, NB home carers may have up to 6 of mixed ages or 9 if all children (inc your own) are registered in school. (In NS, if we deal entirely with school age children, the limit is 8).

I would suggest phoning Community services, or whatever it's called in NB, to ensure that this is accurate for unregistered too. In home carers, regardless of registeration status here, have the same limits. One other thought you likely should check too if if you must be bi-lingual in NB to run a day home. Where both French and English are equally official languages of that province, I do know many businesses have to be able to offer services in both languages.

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/se...s_Program.html

[Rachael]

CrazyEight - Found It!!!!

http://www.gnb.ca/0000/ECHDPE/pdf/ChildcareChoosing.pdf - Same limits apply to registered or unregistered...these are the NB limits.

What are the requirements for Family Day Care Homes?
Family Day Care Homes must meet the requirements of the Day Care Regulation and
Child Day Care Facility Operator Standards and be approved by Social Development.
Specifically, Family Day Care Home services may be provided for a maximum of:
• Three infants, or
• Five children of the ages two to five, or
• Nine children who are of the ages six and over, or
• Six children if at least one is over the age of five.
The child care provider’s (operator’s) own children up to the age of 12 must also
be considered in the total number permitted.
Not all child care providers who care for children in their homes are approved.
It is important for parents to be aware of the regulations and requirements child
care providers must comply with when caring for children.

[CrazyEight]

Thanks Rachael, I saw that! I am still confused, though - what happens if I do only school-agers, but my own kids are 6,5, and 2? Does my 2-year-old count as one, because she's mine? Or am I not allowed to take that many school-agers until all of mine are in school? Does it matter if she's 2, if all my daycare kids are over age 6?

Thanks so much for the responses!

[Rachael]

Thanks Rachael, I saw that! I am still confused, though - what happens if I do only school-agers, but my own kids are 6,5, and 2? Does my 2-year-old count as one, because she's mine? Or am I not allowed to take that many school-agers until all of mine are in school? Does it matter if she's 2, if all my daycare kids are over age 6?

Thanks so much for the responses!

The Maritime's are great at making a seemingly simple situation overly complicated :-)

Both your 6.5 year old and your 2 year old will be included until they have their 12th birthdays. So straight away, regardless of the ages of your children, regardless of the age group you choose to care for, your own two children will reduce any day care children by two places.

What you will need to check, is if the age limits apply to your day care kids even if not registered.

What I mean by that is here, in NS, the limits are 6 (inc our own if under 12) even if one of those 6 is not old enough for school. If we deal purely with school age children, we may have 8 (in our own if under 12). However, further restrictions regarding the ages of those 6 only apply if registered.

Here, we can't have any more than 3 of our 6 younger than 3 years old, and out of those we are further restricted to no more than 2 under two.

So, if I was you with a 6.5 year old and a two year old, then I may only take 4 day care children. But from those 4, since my own child is under 3 years old but had had their 2nd birthday, I would be able to have 2 under the age of 2.

2 day care children under age 2 (no more than 2 under age 2 rule) + your own who is 2 years = no more than 3 under 3 rule. + your own 6.5 year old means that the two remaining day care children must be age 3 or older. See?

However - the 2 under 2 rule and the 3 under 3 rules only applies to registered carers. Unregistered carers still are limited have no age based restrictions within the ratios.

So - max of 6 including your own until their 12th birthday, or max of 8 if all school age inc your own until their 12 birthday - this applies to every single in home carer/babysitter/what ever they call themselves it doesn't matter - registered/approved/licensed - there is no escape these limits.

Being registered means abiding by extra rules about the ages within the limits.


In NB, your 2 years old and your 6.5 year old occupy one of the spaces, until they are 12. But even if you did school age children only, your limit would be five children because of your own 2 year old not being school age herself.

So 5 children is your max in NB with a two-year old. From those 5, you lose two places because your own children are counted in the Maritimes. So now you are allowed 3 day care children. Presuming like NS, the further restrictions only apply if registered, then you would be able to take any age child for those 3 places you have. If however the limits apply when you aren't registered too, then not only have you only got 3 places but you must only take children over age 2. If NB applies these limits to all their carers, then an infant who was a client, would be the youngest and determine the rations, and so one infant means no more than 3 max and your own two take 2 places meaning that one infant is all you personally could have. Make sense?

what happens if I do only school-agers, but my own kids are 6,5, and 2?

Because your 2 year old is too young for school and counted as being in your care, your limit will be 5 minus two places for your own children until they are 12 years old, meaning you may have a MAX of three day care children. Once your 2 year old goes to school, then you really will only have school-ages in your care so your limit would be 9 - 2 places for your own children, permitting 7 client children. Once your oldest turns 12, then you would not count him/her and only count your younger child meaning up to 8 other school age day care clients. See..?

Does my 2-year-old count as one, because she's mine?

Yes - and your 6.5 year old does too even though she's not there during the day.

Does it matter if she's 2, if all my daycare kids are over age 6?

Yes. It matters. A two year old typically requires more attention that a school age child. Regardless of who the parents are, if she's in your care, she is counted and the numbers you make take are affected by her age.

I know - it sucks. There's no loop hole.

[Rachael]

Right - I just phoned a friend in New Brunswick to check my understanding. In plain English....

A in-home carer of children (regardless of what they call themselves) may offer care to

1. Five children (including her own if her own are younger than 12)
OR
2. Nine school age children as long as they are ALL in school (including her own if her own are younger than 12)
OR
3. SIX children as long as 5 of them have had their 5th birthday ((including her own if her own are younger than 12)

^^^ This applies regardless of if you are private/unregistered/registered/approved or whatever status.

IF you want to be agency/community services approved/registered and therefore able to take subsidary clients, there are further restrictions as outlined in the document quoted.

Your children are 6.5 and 2. This means that your 2 year old is NOT school age and therefore the lower limit of 5 children (minus your two because they are younger 12 year old) applies.

Once your youngest child goes to school, you may then either care for FIVE (inc yours) if one of your day care kids is not old enough for school. OR 9 (inc yours) if you stick with school age children.

[CrazyEight]

I actually have 3 kids - age 6, age 5, and age 2, so that further complicates things!!

This is bizarre...I was thinking that I would simply do only school-aged, so could have 9, minus my 3, so 6, which would be ok, money-wise. Then I'd get the day to hang out with my 2-year-old while my oldest 2 are in school. We have been debating another baby - I thought, hey, that would work, because I'd have 6 hours a day of school time with only the baby (if we waited until my 2-year-old was in school)

So this means that because my own child is under school-age, I have a "mixed age group," meaning I can only have 3 daycare children - because I have 3 of my own! That's ridiculous! I have been checking out kijiji and not a lot of providers post their rates, understandably, but the couple that I have seen have all said $25/day, which is cheap, even for where I live now, a small working-class city in Southern Ontario.

That's only $75/day, minus food costs. Damn!

Off to consider options...thanks so much Rachael for looking into this for me!

So to confirm...I can't have the 9 school-age (counting my own 3 of course) because ONE of my three is not yet school-age, correct?

[Rachael]

I actually have 3 kids - age 6, age 5, and age 2, so that further complicates things!!

Oh gosh, yes. Sorry I completely mis-read your prior post to being two of your own, one aged 6 1/2 and a 2 year old.

So this means that because my own child is under school-age, I have a "mixed age group," meaning I can only have 3 daycare children - because I have 3 of my own!

Yes. Because your oldest is 6, then you may take SIX in total based on "Six children if at least one is over the age of five" minus the three spaces your own children take meaning max of 3 day care children.

And yes, I can believe $25 a day. I am about 30 mins outside of Halifax which is the main city. In down town, day care can reach $45, around here, it's about $30-$35 depending on the experience and qualifications of the carer but a lot can't get more than $25 if starting up and/or little child related experience other than being a parent themselves. The more remote areas of the province $25 would be top rate.

So to confirm...I can't have the 9 school-age (counting my own 3 of course) because ONE of my three is not yet school-age, correct?

That's correct.


Curious now - I think you are in Ontario - what are the limits there and approx prices?

[CrazyEight]

And I just found a list of "approved day care homes" which I would assume means registered, and they have the additional rule of only ONE under age 2 when you have 6. It's such a strange way to word it:

Community Day Care Homes* are approved to provide child care services to a smaller number of children in an individual’s home. Specifically, Community Day Care Home services may be provided for a maximum of:
•Three Infants (up to age 24 months), or
•Five children of the ages two to five, or
•Nine children who are of the ages six and over, or
•Six children where the children are of the ages five and under and six and over, including those of the operator. (If there are six children at least one must be age six and over and not more than one under the age of 24 months)


So only 3 daycare kids, with only one being under age 2. Now to figure out if that rule only applies to "registered" homes and if I indeed have to be registered to be legal.