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  1. #31
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    You also have to consider cost of living when you look at the fees we are charging. I just heard on CBC the other day that Ontario and Alberta are the provinces with the highest cost of food and gas. Housing may also be more expensive.

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    Rachael, it's a pretty generalized statement to say that Ontario's fees are $10-$15 higher than yours. In Toronto maybe, but I'm in Belleville, a city of 50,000, and I charge between $30-$35, depending on age/hours. You can't be $10-$15 below that. Even Ottawa is between $35-$50/day, depending on where you are. It's the huge cities, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, that have massively inflated daycare costs. The vast majority of us are pretty much in line with the rest of the country.

  3. #33
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    Crazy Eight...I think also that usually the cost of daycare is directly related to the cost of living in the area. So rent or mortgages in cities like Vancouver or Toronto are massive...so the cost of operating a daycare is also higher...thus higher fees.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnydays View Post
    Rachel, I see what you are saying...Ontario seems to have had less restrictions than most other provinces. BUT, there is one key difference, as Playfelt mentioned...full day kindergarten starts for kids aged 3.5 - 4 years old. We only have ages 1-3 in terms of full-time care. There is no half day kindergarten even. And school aged care here pays so little, it is hardly worth the trouble. So how can we fill our daycares if we are restricted to only 2 under 2 and the rest basically have to be between 2 and 3 and then they are off to shool (and all schools have to provide before and after care, so there is no shortage there).
    I think my biggest issue with the rule is that it does not make children in the care of a home daycare provider any safer than if a provider were to have 5 under 2yrs. Some providers will be better with that number than others and I think a lot is down to personal preference as to whether they like that busy under 2 group where the dynamic is very different than a group of 3 or 4 year olds or a mixed group. The issue with the bill for many is how it effects income, and if my kids were younger and that aspect were to effect me, then perhaps my attitude would be different. Without my focus being on this aspect though, I am able to see things from a different angle which is that regardless of income and ratios, this bill is meant to ensure the safety of children attending in home independent childcare. This bill does no such thing, and the under 2 rule does nothing to impact this either. Give me a bill that ensures safety and supports providers with training and resources, not restrictions which make no sense. The children who tragically died were not in the care of a provider within the 5 plus your own rule....although maybe I missed those legal daycares playing by the rules where a tragic "accident" occurred without the presence of neglect in the headlines. They were grossly over ratio and were breaking multiple rules of health and safety additionally to many other common sense rules. How does Bill 10 even address those. This bill actually just gives way to an increase in illegal daycares with no way to enforce their increased fines as they haven't implemented any way of tracking providers unless they are with an agency. How many seemingly good providers are going to see the bill pass and be like, "No not doing it. I'm going to carry on as majority of people aren't aware of the DNA now, so they probably won't even know the rules that I am breaking with the new bill and I can't afford to lose the income. I won't draw any attention to myself. We won't go out other than the back yard." That will happen so so much. I think there should be ratios and guidelines, and I'm coming from a country where childcare, even home childcare requires a prerequisite training, licensing and is heavily regulated and monitored. That is how we keep our children safe. Bill 10 really makes a ton of money for agencies, and causes multiple providers and parents no doubt to fall into hardship as providers are forced to close, earning far less than minimum wage and as more and more providers close, parents without care will lose their jobs and be forced to stay at home. Way to screw things up in Ontario, Liberal government!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnydays View Post
    Rachel, I see what you are saying...Ontario seems to have had less restrictions than most other provinces. BUT, there is one key difference, as Playfelt mentioned...full day kindergarten starts for kids aged 3.5 - 4 years old. We only have ages 1-3 in terms of full-time care. There is no half day kindergarten even. And school aged care here pays so little, it is hardly worth the trouble. So how can we fill our daycares if we are restricted to only 2 under 2 and the rest basically have to be between 2 and 3 and then they are off to shool (and all schools have to provide before and after care, so there is no shortage there).
    Here, it's very common for parents to pull their children a year before school and send them to a registered pre-school program. So it ends up being the same as losing them to school around 3.5 to 4 years. Sure, it's not everyone who does that but I'd say 80% of parents do.

    I know Ontario providers feel Bill 10 is unfair - even though their rates and numbers are much higher than elsewhere - but to be honest, it's really hard to be sympathetic when they have a potential of everyone else's reality. I'm not saying that to be mean, it's just you've had it so good for so long. It's kind of like Beyonce moaning she's down to her last $50 million. LOL

    FT day care here for 10+ hours maxes out at $35.00. Most people are around $30.00. For that we have to include two snacks (a grain and fresh fruit for each) and a lunch.

    Before and after school care is around $15.00.

    We are allowed 6 regardless of if we are registered. This includes any household children until they are 12. A household child could be a step-child who comes one week a month but they are allocated a full space. If we have all school age children, we may have 8, including household children. A mixture and the max reverts to 6 max.

    If know it's crap - welcome to the conditions the rest of us are earning in.

    $30 a day x 6 children = $180 per day. For 12 hours, before business expenses, tax, CPP at 6%. That's $15.00 gross business income, if we are full, and if we don't have household children under age 12.

    We too have the limits on no more than two under two PLUS no more than three under three meaning 3 of our 6 places must be filled with children who have had their third birthday. Once they get to 4, most parents pull their child for a pre-school program. Why? Honestly - because most of the time, families can't afford to stay in the Maritimes long term and so, their children have to be able to keep up with children in other provinces when they leave and head West. Since those provinces start their children in school younger than we do, parents worry if they have to head West for work that their child will be behind their new peers.

    I wish I was more sympathetic but as said, Ontario providers are just seeing what the rest of us have been dealing with for years.

  7. #36
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    That's true too. I hadn't thought of that, but as soon as the child is around 3, parents start to think about leaving for a preschool. Even if they're happy with the daycare, and the skills the kids are learning, it's just something parents do sometimes.
    I have no issues with the under 2 rule either, because I really like my mix of 1 and 2 year olds.

  8. #37
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    For me it is wondering where they get the under age 2 rule from in the sense that many daycare centres make the split at 18 months. If the rules were changed to two under 18 months I wouldn't have a problem with that because it allows for a bit of leeway when a space opens and kids are leaving for school and the next child doesn't turn 2 for another couple months - between 22 and 24 months not as much changes for a child. One of the reasons for avoiding the agencies was the age restrictions that meant we were spreading ourselves too think and not providing good care or ideal learning environment for anyone. Being able to concentrate on just infant/toddler or just preschool makes it much safer for everyone.

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  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnydays View Post
    You also have to consider cost of living when you look at the fees we are charging. I just heard on CBC the other day that Ontario and Alberta are the provinces with the highest cost of food and gas. Housing may also be more expensive.
    And then look at the salaries and taxes. I've had people come here from Alberta and return within 6 months because they can't afford life here. Yes, our costs of living might be less but do you know we are the highest taxed province in the country?

    Food costs here are crazy. For two sons, myself and my day care, I pay over $1000 a month in food. Milk is $6.69 for 4 litres. A loaf of bread begins at $2.89. Three whole chickens in Costco is $36.00.

    Gas here has gone down recently so since the last couple of weeks it's $1.20. Until recently it was around $1.36.

    We have one power company, NS Power. My budget plan (payments spread evenly over the year) is $260.00 a month.

    Taxes are close to 40% here when you consider PST = 15% and income taxes. We are also taxed on taxes. LOL

    Alberta doesn't have any PST which is a massive saving in itself. It also has free health care. I pay $279.80 a month - that gives me 80% of prescription drugs up to $500 per year. It also gives me $500 in dental coverage and after that, they will pay 60% for the next $700. My plan anniversary date is June. For two teens, I've paid out over $500 in dental costs and have a teen whose wisdom teeth are coming out at the end of the month. Despite the insurance, that'll cost me another $2,300.00.

    Yes - houses are cheaper here but that's about it. Houses bought on salaries that are a mere portion of other provinces which is why, our young adults are headed West.
    Last edited by Rachael; 11-13-2014 at 04:39 PM.

  11. #39
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    Here you go...by province...now tell me NS is cheaper to live in than Ontario or Alberta. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...pis01j-eng.htm

  12. #40
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    You might find this interesting too...http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/nova-s...CQD0HJ1S76S0M1


    I do wish this myth about the East Coast being cheap would go away because it is entirely a myth.

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