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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by playfelt View Post
    Another question for people to answer please is the definition of school age. The problem we are having here in Ontario with the rule changes is that children enter care at age 1 because of year long maternity leave and start school at 3 3/4 (ie if a child turns 4 before the end of December they can start school that September so youngest would be 4 months shy of turning 4 when starting school). That is only a 2-3 year window for children needing full time care. The schools also offer a large amount of before and after care for school age children. The more you restrict the available pool of children the harder it is to maintain career status in childcare.
    Wow, the children go to school sometimes before the age of 4?! That's rediculous, no wonder you Ontario daycare providers are getting so up in arms. Here the children start kindergarten at the age of 5.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyEight View Post
    Rachael, it's a pretty generalized statement to say that Ontario's fees are $10-$15 higher than yours. In Toronto maybe, but I'm in Belleville, a city of 50,000, and I charge between $30-$35, depending on age/hours. You can't be $10-$15 below that. Even Ottawa is between $35-$50/day, depending on where you are. It's the huge cities, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, that have massively inflated daycare costs. The vast majority of us are pretty much in line with the rest of the country.
    Bear in mind - Halifax IS A CITY so it's fair to compare city rates. It's the capital of NS, it's where the work is, and it's the only main airport in the Maritimes.

    I am the top level at $35.00 in the city. Outside the city it's around $25 a day. There's people just 15 mins outside Halifax charging $22 a day with snacks and lunch for 6am until 6pm, with receipts!

    Direct cut and pastes from local Kijiji Ads and a local FB page...

    "My name is Tammy and I have been taking kids into my home for over 8 years. I currently have one or two spots available either full or part time. I provide lunch and two snacks per day and charge $25 for full days and $15 for half days. If you have any questions or would like more information please let me know."

    "Starting in July 2015 I will have 3 spots available in my home for childcare. I've decided to be a stay at home mom with my 3yr old boy and my 3month old girl. $25 a day will include all meals and snacks (breakfast and lunch) crafts and lots of activities for all ages, indoor and outdoors. I'm 28 yrs old and have Studied Human Services Educational Support and have lots of experinece with children of all ages. I'm located in Newport Station just a few minutes outside Windsor. Please contact me for more information!"

    "Fun and Reliable Childcare
    Hi everyone. My name is Tania and I am offering childcare within my home. I am a mother of 3 lovely ladies and have 15+ years childcare experience.
    I am located in Shearwater and my home is smoke free. I have a fenced in yard, and large activity area within my home.
    I am offering spots for both Fulltime and Partime care. I offer semi-structured care, included will be various activites, outside playtime, crafts and nap/quiet time. I will also be including 2 snacks and lunch in my rate for full time. I am looking to care for children from infants to 5yrs.
    My rate is daily $22 for Fulltime and part-time would be $15 per day.
    Childcare is something I am passionate about and so happy to be able start this venture and maybe create it into something more. If you need someone to help you out with your childcare needs please feel free to contact me to get more information.
    Thanks
    Pictures of my home in comments!"

    "Looking for childcare? Look no further! on Kijiji http://www.kijiji.ca/…/looking-for-c...30;/1021791431

    Looking for childcare? Look no further! | child care | City of Halifax | Kijiji
    i am offering part-time, full-time or before/after school care from my lower sackville home. $25/day or $12...
    WWW.KIJIJI.CA"

    So your $35 for outside the city rates, less our $22-$25 for outside the city rates, is indeed a difference of between $10-$15 as stated.

    I'm in the city boundaries hence I am $35 and as you said, for other cities, even Ottawa it would be between $35 and $50.

    Inidentally, compare the cost of living in Halifax and Ottawa and then consider our income levels.

    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...a&city2=Ottawa

    http://lisaschuyler.com/index.php/20...n-nova-scotia/
    Last edited by Rachael; 11-13-2014 at 06:09 PM.

  3. #43
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    Rachael, I just have one question...how do you manage to make ends meet??? I don't think I could be a daycare provider under the conditions you described. It is a hard and important job and we all deserve to be able to make a decent living doing it. I understand why you don't sympathize with us in Ontario...but maybe instead of being happy that we are being dragged down to your level...you and others in provinces where things are tough could fight for some changes so that you could be brought up to a level where you could actually make a decent living doing what you love. I don't think it's too much to ask.

  4. #44
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    I understand how difficult it would be to have to make these adjustments. If I were in your shoes I would be doing the exact same thing. However, the more I hear about your agencies, and the licensing rules, the more I appreciate the system in Manitoba.
    To me as a complete outsider in this situation, it seems like everyone should be fighting for a licensing system run properly, and totally get rid of agencies. I get to offer my families daycare for $18 -20 /per day. If a family meets subsidy requirements, they pay me $2/day and the province sends me the difference. And every 3 months, I get an operating grant based on the number of spots I'm providing. So it puts me right back in line (income-wise) with providers charging $30/day. So I'm making more money than I was when I was private (and charging 30-35), with the way it worked out I'm able to have 4 paying preschool/infant spots, instead of two. My oldest daughter is in school full time but I wouldn't have been able to fill her spot without being over. Now she's using a school age spot and I can have a paying family in her place.
    Last edited by superfun; 11-13-2014 at 09:33 PM.

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  6. #45
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    I have said this before but I'll say it again. I don't know how anyone does this job for $25-30 a day. I am doing this because I want to be home with my kids but I don't think it would have interested me (or been financially manageable) at that fee. I charge $60 per day and I keep my number at 4 kids plus my daughter (my other daughter is now in JK). I'm not embarrassed at what I charge. I live downtown Toronto (have a $450, 000 mortgage, which was entry level price for a semi detached house 6 yrs a go), I have excellent credentials and I am market rate for the neighbourhood. I couldn't afford to pay that fee either when both my girls required care.

  7. #46
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    I don't know how the province decided the amount to pay in operating grants per spot, but I know it worked out for me when I did the math, and put my income back in line with the going rate around here. I do know that the operating grant was recently increased, and I believe it's supposed to increase again, but I never believe these things until it happens. I would assume that if the going rate around here was $60, then my provincially regulated fees would also be higher, or the grants increased accordingly.
    That actually makes me appreciate the manitoba system more, because we have so much flexibility. If I wanted to be licensed, and have 5 preschool/infant spots, rather than 4, but I didn't want to charge the set rates, I can still do that. I could have set my own fees and not receive funding from the province.

  8. #47
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    I'm in MB and while I don't agree with the ratio rules, there isn't much I can do about it. I have spoke with head office and I have emailed and I encourage all parents when I can to do the same (to email and ask them to relook at the ratio rules and the age restrictions). With ON looking at decreasing their ratio, I can't see MB increasing theirs anytime soon though. It's unfortunate because I do think that no matter where you live and no matter what the rules are there will always be providers who run illegally. We could be allowed 12 kids and there will still be the ones who take 13 because "what's one more?" So while I appreciate the concept behind the rules, I do agree that they mean nothing. There are some providers who are more than capable of providing quality care for more than they are allowed and there are providers who shouldn't even have one child in their care.

    I'm also curious as to what the consequences are for providers who run illegally in other provinces? Here in MB, there really isn't a huge consequence and I believe this is why there are so many who go over their numbers. If reported and caught, they are shut down immediately that day but they can re-open the next day as long as they are following ratio. A friend of mine in another city has a friend who was reported.....twice!! She runs illegally until she's caught, goes down in numbers for a bit and than starts to take on more kids again.

    I also don't think it matters where we are or the cost of living.....if any one of us was told we had to immediately go down a child or two, that would be a huge loss of income. Yes of course the cost of living is more in downtown TO than it is here in MB but the loss of income is still the same. That is still a bill or two that now has the potential to not be paid.

    Even though I don't like the MB ratio's (for private or licensed) I am grateful I live here because my cost of living is low, my 4 paying spots (at $32/day) bring in more than enough for me to live on and it works for us. I am also extremely lucky to be mortgage free though. However, if I had to drop a child that would annoy and scare me too!! Heck, that is part of the reason why I don't have my own child yet lol. I can't afford to pay my own daycare bill

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  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnydays View Post
    Rachael, I just have one question...how do you manage to make ends meet??? I don't think I could be a daycare provider under the conditions you described. It is a hard and important job and we all deserve to be able to make a decent living doing it. I understand why you don't sympathize with us in Ontario...but maybe instead of being happy that we are being dragged down to your level...you and others in provinces where things are tough could fight for some changes so that you could be brought up to a level where you could actually make a decent living doing what you love. I don't think it's too much to ask.
    How do I manage to make ends meet? By going without, like the rest of the Province! LOL You are forgetting that the options you have, we don't. Seasonal lobster fishing, seasonal scallop fishing, IT industry which earns half of the major cities - hence the employment migration West. We manage because we have to!

    If you have to pay mortgage to keep your house, power to heat it, water to drink/wash, property taxes, insurance, etc then you learn to get rid of things that are wants not needs - many families have ONE car or use public transport if it's available in their area (not all areas have it), you cook at home, you don't have expensive clothes, your minimize outgoings.

    We haven't had a vacation in over 10 years, I don't smoke or drink or go out unless it's for a birthday meal for one of my son's. Christmas my budget is $200 per child MAX, birthday's it's $100. Horrible as it is to say, because I have no family here, I only have to worry about myself and my two sons. Essentially, I get up work, pay my bills and go back to bed.

    When my husband died, we had only been here a year and therefore I didn't have the connections which you'd normally hope for in that situation. I was determined to keep my children in the house, in the community, and be here for them which I had been as a stay at home parent. There are only so many changes children can manage at once and having moved continents and lost a parent, I was determined to minimize the others.

    I am lucky in the sense, my mortgage is manageable compared to renting prices - bear in mind, we have more than 4 universities, so rental demand is high and expensive. I had to keep the house at all costs or we'd have been in serious trouble.

    If I quit the day care and went to work outside the house, I'd be on minimum wage for the first few years anyway - simple, it wouldn't cover the bills if I had min wage x 40 hours or less as here, the min wage jobs are often part-time. By running the day care although the money is awful, I do know that I can deduct a certain percentage of household bills. Without that, I wouldn't make ends meet. If I earning min wage outside the house and wasn't able to claim a percentage of our power, water, etc, I'd have been on the streets years ago.

    We make it work because there's no other option - and I am not the only one facing these challenges. I know plenty of two adult households here in the exact same situation.

    And - you are rather twisting my words to say I am HAPPY you are being put in the same situation. If you look back, I said it was hard to sympathise with Ontario providers concerns.

    Right now, Bill 10 is a maybe. It hasn't passed. So you are facing the potential of the challenges which are our reality. You might be placed in the same situation that the rest of the country is in. I did not once say I was happy your income would be cut but I did say, and stand by my comment, that it's hard to sympathise when we've been it that situation for years. Essentially, you've had it good for a long time, but no one seems to say "Oh well, compared to everyone else, we've had a good run. Now I guess we are in the same boat as the others".

    I'm sorry but some people in the wealthier provinces are under this illusion that their costs of living are higher, the client base is only available for a few short years, that Bill 10 will make it impossible to earn a living - and there is the expectation that the whole country is concerned about Bill 10 and it's effects. The reality is, your costs of living are actually far lower than many poorer provinces, our client base is only available for the same time span just for different reasons, we deal with higher turnover and so less stable client bases because of the employment migration out of province too.

    As I said, I didn't state I was happy about you being in the same situation but it's is hard to be sympathetic when you are merely being brought into line with the rest of the country - and it's not even a certainty.

    Interesting that you view it as "being dragged down" vs the playing field being evened.

    It's quite a vicious comment that you view yourself as higher than the rest of us - but very telling.

    More so, twisting your own view that we should be more sympathetic to your situation - I didn't see you petitioning for changes for the rest of the county to be brought up to Ontario's level - only when it's you coming down is there noise and concern and expectation we are all sympathetic to your cause. Perhaps, if I'd seen an equal amount of concern for the rest of us being on these limits prior to Bill 10, I'd feel differently.
    Last edited by Rachael; 11-14-2014 at 08:04 AM.

  11. #49
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    In all of the discussions of the changes in Ontario what is getting lost is the fact that it is "CHANGES". People got into daycare knowing what the rules were and made a family budget and made the move to home daycare knowing how their family would be impacted. Now the rules are changing and that is what the protest is about more than what the changes are too. I know other provinces have some even stricter rules but you knew those going in and could decide if it was the right decision for your family. If the new rules had been in place in Ontario the providers now facing closing their doors because of the unplanned loss of income due to lost spaces would never be happening.

  12. #50
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    Rachael...I am sorry if you have misunderstood my point completely. I did not once say (nor do I believe) that we in Ontario are better than the rest of you!! I am not even from Ontario originally. What I said actually, was that we ALL deserve to make a decent living because this is a hard and important job...I meant YOU deserve that too! Why should childcare be a lowly kind of profession? We are caring for children during their formative years...the most important years in their lives some would say. I am truly sorry that so many of you in other provinces are barely scraping by while working your butts off...that is NOT right! THAT was my point...not that we are "special" in Ontario. As Playfelt said, I opened my daycare knowing the rules and having done my calculations as to whether it is something I can do while helping to support my family. If the rules and fees were like they are in your area, I could not have opened a daycare at all as it just wouldn't have been feasible for me. I am not asking for your support. We in Ontario have been fighting VERY hard to get amendments to this Bill so that we can keep our businesses open and so that parents won't find themselves without daycare. If something like this were facing you in NS or elsewhere, I would like to think we would all rally support for you as well. One thing I have learned throughout this process, is that when we all band together, we really DO have a lot of power to change things. If parents and daycare providers in NS were to truly band together and fight like crazy like we are..who knows...maybe you could get some changes made eventually that would make it easier for you to survive. THAT was the point of my post...not to put you down personally or anyone else in other provinces. I have seen what power we have when we all speak out about something important. Imagine if all childcare providers across the country stood up and demanded better treatment? Don't we ALL deserve that?

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