Committee review

[CrazyEight]

January 1st 2016 was the date that the Liberal MPP put forward in an amendment, but it hasn't been confirmed publicly yet, and probably won't be until after the house votes, and possibly not until the royal assent.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Sorry to hear of this!! Losing income is never a good feeling, whether we are prepared for it or not!

However, on the bright side at least you do have a year to get things under control and decide if you can still make a go of running a hdc or if you will need to close up and find work elsewhere, as well as finding childcare for some of you! It can't be an easy decision, I'm sure!

I sure do wish that childcare was the same across the provinces. I can understand why the prices of dc would be different, given the cost of living is different. It just makes no sense to me as to how "they" can say one province is okay to watch 8 children while a person in another province is only okay to watch 5. Seems so silly IMO.

Good luck to all of those who this will affect!! Seems hard to believe but in a few years this will be the norm and all will be back to regular. Hopefully most of you who want to keep running a hdc, can!!

[Rachael]

Exactly 5LM.

Everyone has times when they have a decrease in income through no fault of their own. Most adults look at reducing their outgoing or taking a second job for more money. It will all settle.

New carers will spring up like they always do and that will pick up some of the excess clients from the higher numbers now. Kids will go to school in September and not be replaced by the carer' It will all settle down again with little change to the fees other than a slight blimp that will soon settle as the value of child care is established by the market not the carer's financial situation/outgoings.

Parents with 4 children will simply not consider opening their own day care an option which it currently is since their own children are now included. No big deal - just one less option if a parent wanted to stay home and open their own business.

Sure, some existing carers will close but again, that's hardly uncommon anyway in this industry.

There's a whole year to figure it out. Someone said that with Moms returning to work and seeking care for a 12 month old and kids going to school at 4 anyway, there's likely a high turnover in lots of day homes. They just won't replace as many as they leave, that's all.

A few years and you'll look back and wonder why you thought it might be the end of the World but you'll figure it out. Change is good.

[cfred]

I can understand that, at a distance, it doesn't seem like a big deal. For me, it's not so much the change in rules. Like you said Rachael, this business is often fluid with children coming and going and circumstances changing. I will continue to run my business and my year is fairly well sorted out. Where the problem lies is with the complete corruption of this entire process. I'm saying this as someone who has been fully ensconced in this battle from the beginning, so of course, it means a lot to me. The Liberals didn't even acknowledge our existence for the first 3/4 of this whole process. On the rare occasion they did, it was negative and the media had a heyday with it. Our reputations, as a whole, have taken a beating, so that's one reason to have our panties in a twist.

The policy writing began 2 years ago without the knowledge of a single independent provider, who are the largest stakeholders in the industry. Agencies who basically fleece their providers for 20%-30% of their income in exchange for, at best, mediocre services were the policy writers. The policies were written in such a way that they benefit ONLY agencies and absolve the government of any responsibility. This is collusion. We came to the table with many valid amendments, one of which is independent licensing, which is available in other provinces. Every single amendment was shot down...every one. Their bill does not provide any extra oversight and removes due process in the event of issuing fines of up to $250,000. The reason for this bill, as it has been shown on the CICPO page tonight, is basically, to cover the government's own ass...or so it would appear by a specific clause in the bill outlining how they cannot be sued.

The independent providers of Ontario have been completely left out of a process which directly affects them. We have been slandered in the press and by our own government. The committee review which was supposed to have occurred yesterday was nothing more than a show of power. It has been made very clear to us by our government and agencies alike that they want us off the map. We're not quite ready to give up just yet. We cannot just blithely say that we'll sit back and things will sort themselves out. This is our opportunity to make a change for the better in a field that the Ontario government really couldn't give a shit about. I appreciate the sentiment that I think you're trying to convey, and it is soothing...but on the other hand, we shouldn't become complacent. There are many people fearful of losing their homes. I was one of them, till I learned that I have until January 2016. I'll be ok, but many other wonderful providers won't be and it's just not fair. We're not done yet. I want, by the end of this, to AT LEAST see a new licensing model that doesn't include for profit agencies.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I feel passionate about being able to stay private for those that want too so I admire you and the work you've done/are doing cfred! And everyone else whose worked on this!

However, I'm also a realist (not that you aren't!) and I know the govt will always do what they can to make money off of us and be in a position to "control" us. We are small business owners and just like many other industries, the push to move private business owners out is always going to be a challenge. The govt feels they need to regulate every thing!!!

I admire people like you who fight to change things!!! I really do! I'm the type who accepts it for what it is and I focus my energy on how I'm going to prepare for the change without even thinking that I can stop the change from happening.

[Rachael]

This isn't a new situation here in Canada. Reforms happen in all industries and the only input ever seems to come from the 'official' providers and the government and sometimes any unions which are involved. Fair - no, but having lived here for almost 14 years now, it's the only model I've ever seen.

The small business owner, the self-employed are NEVER considered in any reforms here unless they are part of a larger body which has a government relationship - in this case, day care agencies.

The only time I see anyone object to this common practice is when it's their own industry being affected and therefore when it has a direct impact on themselves. I have never once seen someone get involved in fighting change when they work in an unrelated field.

I'm not saying that's right - I'm saying it's how it seemingly has always worked in this Country and it's a practice which initially surprised me but no longer does. I think it's your outrage that bemuses me when this practice of excluding a large part of the providers is nothing new.

[cfred]

I think what it boils down to is that if one does nothing, one achieves nothing. Will we get anything that we want? Maybe....probably not. BUT, one important thing we've done in the process of this fight is shed light on it. Public awareness is critical in any cause and in that regard, we've done extremely well. CICPO is all over the news broadcasts, articles, radio shows, social media, etc, etc. We've brought a cause that, before our fight, no one really knew anything about, right to the forefront. In my opinion, the secrecy in which this has been put together is disgraceful. We've brought it to the forefront, educated thousands and given unity and a voice to providers all over the province. That in itself is fantastic! I've watched all the media go from flat out condemning us to now giving us balanced, fair and factual stories. Lucy Lopez had me in a gem of a blunder in my interview for CBC news...I really buggered it up. She didn't use the part to work against us......6 months ago, it would have been used for sure! In the end, it was a balanced piece, to my great relief. Even Lizzy herself changed her tune toward the end. She's still a heinous hag, BUT she heard us...loud and clear. We've even garnered the assistance of the Ombudsman himself, which is beyond cool! We have a little clout and the ear of the media (to some degree). Given that we just started up in July, that's quite remarkable. But the best part is that we're unified and striving toward one cause. I believe this will carry forward beyond this fight. Even if we don't win this battle, we've still won...if ya know what I mean. So yes, Rachael, change IS good! But I'll be damned if I'm going to be complacent. Nothing is gained with complacency.....too many great things come out of a good fight

[Wonderwiper]

I'm honestly really surprised about comments saying change is inevitable and that laws are changed without input all the time and no one cares. Just because it happens all the time doesn't make it ok.

Sure, things change all the time but that doesn't mean we should just bend over and take it.

CFred, Heidi, Kim, Veronica, Tracey and so many others can look in the mirror everyday with pride and know that they did their best for something they believed in with all their hearts, regardless of the outcome.

[CrazyEight]

"No big deal"???? Are you kidding me???

Maybe in the grand scheme of things, "it will all settle," but tell that to the actual providers and families who's lives are about to get turned upside down.

I live in a working-class, low-income, small city in Ontario. My Arts degree in European Studies and German is completely useless here, but my husband's job is here, so we are stuck. My youngest will already count in my numbers, and we had planned on one more baby sometime next fall. If I continue that plan and refuse to let my government dictate my family size, then I will have to terminate 2 clients. I will be forced to run on 60% of my barely-minimum-wage-already income for 3 more years. My business will essentially be in the toilet. I will be working 10 hour days for under 20 grand a year. However, daycare costs, even just for my existing three children, would be that amount themselves. So to be better off, I need to walk into an entry-level job that offers straight day shifts and pays at least 40 grand a year. Please, tell me where I'm supposed to find that. I don't have "other options" available to me. This was a career born out of necessity.

I am ONE example of thousands and thousands of providers across this province. My clients have nowhere else to go in this school district. They cannot afford higher fees. They are a few examples of an even bigger number of families that will be affected.

To say nothing of rural Ontario, where there are very few centers and in a lot of places, no agencies either. They rely on ICP's almost exclusively, and now ICP's are about to be forced to terminate spaces.

Rachael, how can you be so nonchalant in saying that people with multiple young children "simply won't decide to open their own business, they will have one less option"?? Exactly how many other options do you think there are?

I realize you think that the laws here were unfair to begin with, and I realize that providers in other provinces have figured out a way to make ends meet with harsher restrictions. But that is not the point. Regardless on whether or not they were right or fair or whatever other word you want to use, Ontario has been running with these ratios for decades. Providers, myself included, have planned our families around the current laws. Thousands of providers have bought large homes with separate daycare spaces, for example, have planned the number and spacing of their children, have made huge, life-altering decisions based on the CURRENT ratios, and now are faced with trying to figure out how to fix the damage that has already been done. They can't magically go back in time and have less kids or space them further apart. They can't just pick up and move to a city with more job opportunities. They can't go back in time and decide NOT to buy that bigger house, NOT to spend money on renovations for daycare, NOT to upgrade their schooling with ECE courses, etc etc etc. Those choices were made years ago based on the current ratios, and the damage from them has already been done.

These are people's livelihoods at stake, that the government has thrown away. I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and allow a bunch of corrupt politicians throw my career under the bus in order to cover their own asses, and do nothing about it. I'm going to fight for all the providers and families that will run out of options after this law goes through, because then I can at least look myself in the eye in the morning.

Please keep the actual people that this will hurt in mind before simply brushing off such monumental changes in legislation as no big deal. Change is only good if it is going to improve the lives of everyone it affects, and this will only improve the pocketbooks of agencies and the government.

[Fun&care]

A few years and you'll look back and wonder why you thought it might be the end of the World but you'll figure it out. Change is good.

Ouch!

You sure have a lot to say for someone who really only has a distant view of what has been going on here in Ontario. I don't think this has merely been about change. You should have seen how ICPs were being thrown under the bus left and right in the media after that little girl died. And then the Bill came out and it honestly felt like a witch hunt. Suddenly we were ALL criminals and being a home daycare provider, for me, was depressing and embarrassing. I am very grateful for those who fought HARD and turned some heads and went and retrieved the respect for home daycare providers that was lost for a bit.

We were all for change, all along. We WANT to be licensed and have training available through the government and they turned us down!!

For some, this bill is maybe not the end of the world, but it is the end of doing daycare and they really are scrambling.