Committee review

[CrazyEight]

January 1st 2016 was the date that the Liberal MPP put forward in an amendment, but it hasn't been confirmed publicly yet, and probably won't be until after the house votes, and possibly not until the royal assent.

[5 Little Monkeys]

Sorry to hear of this!! Losing income is never a good feeling, whether we are prepared for it or not!

However, on the bright side at least you do have a year to get things under control and decide if you can still make a go of running a hdc or if you will need to close up and find work elsewhere, as well as finding childcare for some of you! It can't be an easy decision, I'm sure!

I sure do wish that childcare was the same across the provinces. I can understand why the prices of dc would be different, given the cost of living is different. It just makes no sense to me as to how "they" can say one province is okay to watch 8 children while a person in another province is only okay to watch 5. Seems so silly IMO.

Good luck to all of those who this will affect!! Seems hard to believe but in a few years this will be the norm and all will be back to regular. Hopefully most of you who want to keep running a hdc, can!!

[Rachael]

Exactly 5LM.

Everyone has times when they have a decrease in income through no fault of their own. Most adults look at reducing their outgoing or taking a second job for more money. It will all settle.

New carers will spring up like they always do and that will pick up some of the excess clients from the higher numbers now. Kids will go to school in September and not be replaced by the carer' It will all settle down again with little change to the fees other than a slight blimp that will soon settle as the value of child care is established by the market not the carer's financial situation/outgoings.

Parents with 4 children will simply not consider opening their own day care an option which it currently is since their own children are now included. No big deal - just one less option if a parent wanted to stay home and open their own business.

Sure, some existing carers will close but again, that's hardly uncommon anyway in this industry.

There's a whole year to figure it out. Someone said that with Moms returning to work and seeking care for a 12 month old and kids going to school at 4 anyway, there's likely a high turnover in lots of day homes. They just won't replace as many as they leave, that's all.

A few years and you'll look back and wonder why you thought it might be the end of the World but you'll figure it out. Change is good.

[cfred]

I can understand that, at a distance, it doesn't seem like a big deal. For me, it's not so much the change in rules. Like you said Rachael, this business is often fluid with children coming and going and circumstances changing. I will continue to run my business and my year is fairly well sorted out. Where the problem lies is with the complete corruption of this entire process. I'm saying this as someone who has been fully ensconced in this battle from the beginning, so of course, it means a lot to me. The Liberals didn't even acknowledge our existence for the first 3/4 of this whole process. On the rare occasion they did, it was negative and the media had a heyday with it. Our reputations, as a whole, have taken a beating, so that's one reason to have our panties in a twist.

The policy writing began 2 years ago without the knowledge of a single independent provider, who are the largest stakeholders in the industry. Agencies who basically fleece their providers for 20%-30% of their income in exchange for, at best, mediocre services were the policy writers. The policies were written in such a way that they benefit ONLY agencies and absolve the government of any responsibility. This is collusion. We came to the table with many valid amendments, one of which is independent licensing, which is available in other provinces. Every single amendment was shot down...every one. Their bill does not provide any extra oversight and removes due process in the event of issuing fines of up to $250,000. The reason for this bill, as it has been shown on the CICPO page tonight, is basically, to cover the government's own ass...or so it would appear by a specific clause in the bill outlining how they cannot be sued.

The independent providers of Ontario have been completely left out of a process which directly affects them. We have been slandered in the press and by our own government. The committee review which was supposed to have occurred yesterday was nothing more than a show of power. It has been made very clear to us by our government and agencies alike that they want us off the map. We're not quite ready to give up just yet. We cannot just blithely say that we'll sit back and things will sort themselves out. This is our opportunity to make a change for the better in a field that the Ontario government really couldn't give a shit about. I appreciate the sentiment that I think you're trying to convey, and it is soothing...but on the other hand, we shouldn't become complacent. There are many people fearful of losing their homes. I was one of them, till I learned that I have until January 2016. I'll be ok, but many other wonderful providers won't be and it's just not fair. We're not done yet. I want, by the end of this, to AT LEAST see a new licensing model that doesn't include for profit agencies.

[Fun&care]

A few years and you'll look back and wonder why you thought it might be the end of the World but you'll figure it out. Change is good.

Ouch!

You sure have a lot to say for someone who really only has a distant view of what has been going on here in Ontario. I don't think this has merely been about change. You should have seen how ICPs were being thrown under the bus left and right in the media after that little girl died. And then the Bill came out and it honestly felt like a witch hunt. Suddenly we were ALL criminals and being a home daycare provider, for me, was depressing and embarrassing. I am very grateful for those who fought HARD and turned some heads and went and retrieved the respect for home daycare providers that was lost for a bit.

We were all for change, all along. We WANT to be licensed and have training available through the government and they turned us down!!

For some, this bill is maybe not the end of the world, but it is the end of doing daycare and they really are scrambling.

[superfun]

We were all for change, all along. We WANT to be licensed and have training available through the government and they turned us down!!

This is the part that really gets me. I never quite appreciated our licensing system until I started paying close attention to what you guys are going through right now. It really seems like it would solve so much of what the government is aiming for, if you didn't have to use agencies.

[cfred]

I get what you're saying Rachael...I really do. And yes, people have had to deal with changing legislation, crappy life circumstances, etc forever. No one is disputing that, nor is anyone feeling that they are exempt from difficult times. But do you just sit back and take it? If you found yourself suddenly with an illness, do you fight it or just say 'Meh, them's the breaks' and pour yourself a drink and wait to succumb? Probably not.....You'll most likely give it a shot at beating it...at least I think that's what most of us would do.

I don't know.....I'm an ECE. This is my educated field and career path. Working as an independent is the ONLY way to make a sustainable living in Ontario in the childcare industry. When this first began, there was concern that I would actually have to sell my home and send my sons to live with their father, for fear that I wouldn't be able to support them any longer...and since I'm the only income source for my family, that was a very real possibility. I've got myself sorted for the short term, but beyond a couple years...well...I don't know. If the Universal Daycare Plan comes into effect, I'm pretty much done. Working for an agency is less than minimum wage. We simply cannot survive. That's a huge chunk of crap to swallow when you've based your entire life on this industry. The only thing standing in the way of survival and failure is the ability to be licensed...which other provinces do but we have been denied. None of us is rich nor do we strive to be. But to be stripped of your ability to earn a living is somewhat daunting and might be enough to set anyone into a tizzy. And I don't think that a group of people standing together to fight for their rights and better legislation is a bad thing. Should we all just bend over the barrel and take a good reaming with smiles on our faces? I don't know about you, but I just don't have it in me to be that complacent. People are going to be upset. They're going to talk about it. When we go through hard times, that's what we do and it's healthy. To be so smug and proclaim that we are selfish and short sighted whilst our lives get turned upside down is...well...in poor taste and really unkind.

You probably aren't aware since you're not from here, what it was like when this began. I, among many other providers, was afraid to tell people what I did for a living because we were at the centre of a smear campaign. I actually had an acquaintance thrusting articles about dead children at me as I tried to defend my profession. My profession has been put down many times since the beginning of this whole fiasco. It was awful...it has had a tremendous impact on our reputations as a whole. The Liberals did their job ineffectively, resulting in a tot's death, labelled all of us illegal baby killers and threw us under the bus. Those are harsh words, but that is exactly how all of us were being perpetuated in the media of all types. It was awful...really awful. No one should ever have their own government out to damage the image of an entire group of people for their own agenda. That alone is worth a good scrap. If you don't like what we're doing, then no one's forcing you to participate in the conversation. If you have an interest in our position and what it is we represent, I'll happily discuss it with you.

[Rachael]

I get what you're saying Rachael...I really do. And yes, people have had to deal with changing legislation, crappy life circumstances, etc forever. No one is disputing that, nor is anyone feeling that they are exempt from difficult times. But do you just sit back and take it? If you found yourself suddenly with an illness, do you fight it or just say 'Meh, them's the breaks' and pour yourself a drink and wait to succumb? Probably not.....You'll most likely give it a shot at beating it...at least I think that's what most of us would do..

Absolutely and I have no issue with any of you defending it. I've fought more than a few battles myself over my life time.

My issue is the "Oh I can't have a fourth child", "Oh I will have to downsize my house", "Oh, I need to double my rates and screw parents because I have to maintain my standard of living".

These are the elements I find offensive because these are BS elements of life for everyone and admittedly because I don't have a tolerance for the victim mentality when someone has had it freakin' awesome for so long. It reeks of eating cake whilst the pheasants have bread crumbs and then suddenly whining about entitlement once the cake is gone.

I actually agree with many of your posts - and I do think you have understood that I have.

But I can't get on board with those who aren't fighting for the changes for any other reason than they might have overstretched themselves financially riding the cruise boat and now are facing what so many other industries, provinces, face daily.

[5 Little Monkeys]

I feel passionate about being able to stay private for those that want too so I admire you and the work you've done/are doing cfred! And everyone else whose worked on this!

However, I'm also a realist (not that you aren't!) and I know the govt will always do what they can to make money off of us and be in a position to "control" us. We are small business owners and just like many other industries, the push to move private business owners out is always going to be a challenge. The govt feels they need to regulate every thing!!!

I admire people like you who fight to change things!!! I really do! I'm the type who accepts it for what it is and I focus my energy on how I'm going to prepare for the change without even thinking that I can stop the change from happening.

[Rachael]

This isn't a new situation here in Canada. Reforms happen in all industries and the only input ever seems to come from the 'official' providers and the government and sometimes any unions which are involved. Fair - no, but having lived here for almost 14 years now, it's the only model I've ever seen.

The small business owner, the self-employed are NEVER considered in any reforms here unless they are part of a larger body which has a government relationship - in this case, day care agencies.

The only time I see anyone object to this common practice is when it's their own industry being affected and therefore when it has a direct impact on themselves. I have never once seen someone get involved in fighting change when they work in an unrelated field.

I'm not saying that's right - I'm saying it's how it seemingly has always worked in this Country and it's a practice which initially surprised me but no longer does. I think it's your outrage that bemuses me when this practice of excluding a large part of the providers is nothing new.