Committee review

[Rachael]

Rachael, how can you be so nonchalant in saying that people with multiple young children "simply won't decide to open their own business, they will have one less option"?? Exactly how many other options do you think there are?

I realize you think that the laws here were unfair to begin with, and I realize that providers in other provinces have figured out a way to make ends meet with harsher restrictions. But that is not the point. Regardless on whether or not they were right or fair or whatever other word you want to use, Ontario has been running with these ratios for decades. Providers, myself included, have planned our families around the current laws. Thousands of providers have bought large homes with separate daycare spaces, for example, have planned the number and spacing of their children, have made huge, life-altering decisions based on the CURRENT ratios, and now are faced with trying to figure out how to fix the damage that has already been done. They can't magically go back in time and have less kids or space them further apart. They can't just pick up and move to a city with more job opportunities. They can't go back in time and decide NOT to buy that bigger house, NOT to spend money on renovations for daycare, NOT to upgrade their schooling with ECE courses, etc etc etc. Those choices were made years ago based on the current ratios, and the damage from them has already been done.

These are people's livelihoods at stake, that the government has thrown away. I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and allow a bunch of corrupt politicians throw my career under the bus in order to cover their own asses, and do nothing about it. I'm going to fight for all the providers and families that will run out of options after this law goes through, because then I can at least look myself in the eye in the morning.

Because that's life.

Jobs come and go. Companies come and go.

I came to Canada planning to be a stay-at-home parent based on my husband's $100k+ job. Guess what? He died when we had been here less than a year and before his life insurance covered him.
That plan didn't work out and so we adapted.
We ALL make life altering choices and plans based on CURRENT situations and none of us can go back in time and change them. We have a term for that - it's called LIFE.

When people opt to have a family, they have to consider if they can afford that. This is a simple fact regardless of how that family sources their income. There are lots and lots of people who due to the taxes they pay, the cost of living in their area, the income levels who have to decide that they cannot afford to have another child.

The mere fact you consider you should be protected from that when no other industry is, is ludicrous.

We all plan our families around our current financial situation. It's laughable that you would think that isn't the case. However, companies fold, people get laid off, and it's life. It sucks but it's life.

Everyone also buys their home based on the income they have and expect to continue to have but again, life doesn't come with a promise that income will be protected.

I appreciate that this might have been a career born out of necessity - trust me, it was for me too. But shit happens and it happens to everyone not an exclusive sub-group of the community. People get divorced and their income decreases, people have medical emergencies and there income decreases, the list goes on and on.

As said in an earlier post, there is time to figure out a plan which is a luxury compared to some events that others face. Sure, you might need to get a second job - been there, done that, had months were I finished day care and hopped in the car to drive across the city for a 6 hour shift elsewhere when my numbers were low and my income didn't cover the mortgage. Much like the situation you might be facing in a year's time. There are people whose change in circumstance means downsizing - at least you will have the asset to enable you to consider that option too if you now feel your house is too big for your future needs.

I don't mean to sound brazen - I guess I've been dealt enough crappy hands to deal with the reality of a situation vs sobbing about what is lost.

The facts remain that you have been aware of this likely change for a while and now you know it's probably time to plan for that becoming reality. But lines along those where you were hoping to have a 4th child when most people don't get the opportunity of three, seem bizarrely selfish.

Bottom line, you now know you might not be able to afford to continue adding to your family. It sucks but it's a reality most adult Canadian's face. Bottom line, your business won't be taking the long term plan you hoped but again, it's a reality most small business owners also have to face.

It really isn't the end of the World. I promise when you wake up tomorrow, the world will still be turning. I can also promise you that it will all settle.

A lower income than hoped for/expected/planned for is hardly a situation that thousands before you haven't had to face with far less notice.

It's not your disappointment that I can't relate to - but it's the way you feel you should be exempt from situations that most other citizens of this country have to face and it's the tone of entitlement that you deserve the future to be smooth sailing and for guarantees that your income will never be adversely affected by things not in your control. That's not living in the real world. Sorry but it isn't.

Life has dealt you a hand you hoped it wouldn't. How you deal with it, is entirely up to you.

[Fun&care]

I find it odd Rachael how you can be so nonchalant about people losing their jobs, houses and livelihoods yet should anyone dare ask an innocent question about claiming income you won't hesitate to chew them up and spit them out.

[superfun]

We were all for change, all along. We WANT to be licensed and have training available through the government and they turned us down!!

This is the part that really gets me. I never quite appreciated our licensing system until I started paying close attention to what you guys are going through right now. It really seems like it would solve so much of what the government is aiming for, if you didn't have to use agencies.

[Rachael]

I find it odd Rachael how you can be so nonchalant about people losing their jobs, houses and livelihoods yet should anyone dare ask an innocent question about claiming income you won't hesitate to chew them up and spit them out.

That's okay - I find it odd you can bawl out someone for stating their strong views about people working under the table (i.e. committing a criminal offence) and accuse them of bullying yet find it okay to make passive aggressive comments when their views don't agree with yours.

As said, I don't mean to be brazen but Ontario have had ratios well above anyone else's for far longer. When other provinces ratios were reduced, the providers of that time had to adjust - just as the Ontario providers will have to now.

Like when the papermills here close, those who bought houses based on their incomes which having worked their for generations, they expected to continue.

It's life. Nothing is forever. Sure it sucks when people lose jobs, houses, income but Ontario's day care providers are hardly the only people in this situation.

I guess I'm more of a person who deals with it vs whining incessantly. There's a whole year to plan for this change.

I've voiced my views. I'll duck out of this thread since you feel I'm not entitled to have one. Whatever. I just don't think it's as disastrous as many of the woe-is-me crowd believe it is.

Nothing is forever. Nothing. Adapt or die, is the phrase. But it's hardly a case that no one but Ontario providers have faced and it's the overwhelming tone that they are the only victims of life that grates on the rest of us who are already living this reality.

Bottom line - this is a day care forum where either everyone is in Ontario and dealing with it themselves or everyone has already had to make the life adaptions of a smaller home, smaller family, etc because this profession doesn't provide for 3+ children and a home the size we would wish for. Although of course we are all sympathetic to you having to face the change, it's tough to think of you as victims but more so the group who won the lottery years ago and are now whining it wasn't the 'set for life' prize.

[cfred]

I get what you're saying Rachael...I really do. And yes, people have had to deal with changing legislation, crappy life circumstances, etc forever. No one is disputing that, nor is anyone feeling that they are exempt from difficult times. But do you just sit back and take it? If you found yourself suddenly with an illness, do you fight it or just say 'Meh, them's the breaks' and pour yourself a drink and wait to succumb? Probably not.....You'll most likely give it a shot at beating it...at least I think that's what most of us would do.

I don't know.....I'm an ECE. This is my educated field and career path. Working as an independent is the ONLY way to make a sustainable living in Ontario in the childcare industry. When this first began, there was concern that I would actually have to sell my home and send my sons to live with their father, for fear that I wouldn't be able to support them any longer...and since I'm the only income source for my family, that was a very real possibility. I've got myself sorted for the short term, but beyond a couple years...well...I don't know. If the Universal Daycare Plan comes into effect, I'm pretty much done. Working for an agency is less than minimum wage. We simply cannot survive. That's a huge chunk of crap to swallow when you've based your entire life on this industry. The only thing standing in the way of survival and failure is the ability to be licensed...which other provinces do but we have been denied. None of us is rich nor do we strive to be. But to be stripped of your ability to earn a living is somewhat daunting and might be enough to set anyone into a tizzy. And I don't think that a group of people standing together to fight for their rights and better legislation is a bad thing. Should we all just bend over the barrel and take a good reaming with smiles on our faces? I don't know about you, but I just don't have it in me to be that complacent. People are going to be upset. They're going to talk about it. When we go through hard times, that's what we do and it's healthy. To be so smug and proclaim that we are selfish and short sighted whilst our lives get turned upside down is...well...in poor taste and really unkind.

You probably aren't aware since you're not from here, what it was like when this began. I, among many other providers, was afraid to tell people what I did for a living because we were at the centre of a smear campaign. I actually had an acquaintance thrusting articles about dead children at me as I tried to defend my profession. My profession has been put down many times since the beginning of this whole fiasco. It was awful...it has had a tremendous impact on our reputations as a whole. The Liberals did their job ineffectively, resulting in a tot's death, labelled all of us illegal baby killers and threw us under the bus. Those are harsh words, but that is exactly how all of us were being perpetuated in the media of all types. It was awful...really awful. No one should ever have their own government out to damage the image of an entire group of people for their own agenda. That alone is worth a good scrap. If you don't like what we're doing, then no one's forcing you to participate in the conversation. If you have an interest in our position and what it is we represent, I'll happily discuss it with you.

[Fun&care]

That is one high horse you are sitting on. Why even comment on this thread in the first place if you don't agree with us or have anything to add to the conversation? Why do you have such a strong need to voice how much you don't care about what's going on in Ontario?

I sure hope no one ever tells YOU to adapt or die next time you are going through something difficult.

[Rachael]

I get what you're saying Rachael...I really do. And yes, people have had to deal with changing legislation, crappy life circumstances, etc forever. No one is disputing that, nor is anyone feeling that they are exempt from difficult times. But do you just sit back and take it? If you found yourself suddenly with an illness, do you fight it or just say 'Meh, them's the breaks' and pour yourself a drink and wait to succumb? Probably not.....You'll most likely give it a shot at beating it...at least I think that's what most of us would do..

Absolutely and I have no issue with any of you defending it. I've fought more than a few battles myself over my life time.

My issue is the "Oh I can't have a fourth child", "Oh I will have to downsize my house", "Oh, I need to double my rates and screw parents because I have to maintain my standard of living".

These are the elements I find offensive because these are BS elements of life for everyone and admittedly because I don't have a tolerance for the victim mentality when someone has had it freakin' awesome for so long. It reeks of eating cake whilst the pheasants have bread crumbs and then suddenly whining about entitlement once the cake is gone.

I actually agree with many of your posts - and I do think you have understood that I have.

But I can't get on board with those who aren't fighting for the changes for any other reason than they might have overstretched themselves financially riding the cruise boat and now are facing what so many other industries, provinces, face daily.

[Rachael]

That is one high horse you are sitting on. Why even comment on this thread in the first place if you don't agree with us or have anything to add to the conversation? Why do you have such a strong need to voice how much you don't care about what's going on in Ontario?

I sure hope no one ever tells YOU to adapt or die next time you are going through something difficult.

LMAO - Back at you, cupcake!

This is a forum. For discussion. For many views to be expressed. You might wish that everyone nods in agreement and hands you a Kleenex but again, that's not reality. Do you really want to belong to a forum where people pretend to agree with you or stay mute when they don't, or do you want to actually consider people other than yourself for once maybe? If you want to surround yourself by yes-people who will just nod and agree and pat your back until you feel better, go home and visit your Mummy but here, adults with varying views are just as entitled to state them as you are.

Why do I have such a strong voice about what's happening in Ontario? Because this is a National Forum where some members have had an elitist existence for so long yet expect the rest of the country to be pitiful. It's the self-entitlement train which provokes reactions.

Don't try and twist words and make out you have been victimised again by the adapt or die comment. You know perfectly well is wasn't an instruction but a reference to a phase which came about from a quote. If you fail to understand the meaning of it, you pretend to be fairly intelligent, look it up before playing the victim card again. Your failure to do so, it's merely that - your failure.

It's life. Your circumstances have changed. Adapt to them or quit, curl up in a ball, and whine about how much you are a victim of circumstances beyond your control.

[Fun&care]

Lol expressing your opinion...it seems that to you it's about coming up on top and anyone who disagrees with you is a whiny, self entitled baby who needs tissues.

You could have said your peace and left it at that. THAT is expressing an opinion. Now you are just trying to shove your opinion down our throats. We've all heard it- you don't care. The rest of us who DO care are going to continue to discuss this.

As a side note, I don't know what picture you have in your head about providers in Ontario but I don't understand how people who are struggling to make ends meet and then losing their jobs counts as self-entitlement and whining. I don't think anyone goes into this biz to make big bucks and eat cake while the peasants eat crumbs...Like.... Awwwww yea-we providers in ontario be livin' large!

[Fun&care]

But I can't get on board with those who aren't fighting for the changes for any other reason than they might have overstretched themselves financially riding the cruise boat and now are facing what so many other industries, provinces, face daily.

I'm pretty sure most of us aren't over stretching ourselves financially and we definitely are not riding cruise boats!!