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  1. #1

    How does Bill 10 Affect before and after school care providers?

    I provide strictly before and after school care...meaning the children in my care are here for a very limited time. Children's ages range from 4-10years. Is this new Bill 10 allowing any modifications for before and after school care since children are not here for a long duration of time? I also have 2 children of my own aged 4 (in JK) and 2.

  2. #2
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    No, I don't believe they are allowing for modifications. They never have before....5 kids adds up to 5 kids, regardless of how long they're there. There can never be more than 5 - not including your own under the DNA or including your own under the CMA. It's all very confusing.

    So...from my understanding....you r own kids don't count until Jan 1. However, your 2 year old will count all the time. Your 4 year old will NOT count while enrolled in school. But, I believe this may be one of the things being brought up in the Regulatory meetings. This is all a bit muddied, but will be clarified by the end of the process. There was a lot of concern about PA days, holidays and summer break and what to do with your FDK child at those times. Your own children count in your numbers (depending on age and FDK enrollment) until 6 years of age. Also, they have raised the age of children in care to 13yrs, so now those 10 year olds who didn't count before, will count with Bill 10.

    If you have to terminate any clients please write to Karen at khsw@outlook.com. She is collecting information for the Ombudsman as he is keeping track of the damage caused by Bill 10.

    So, assuming you have 5 children in care, you should probably expect to have to let one go by January. Possibly 2, depending on what happens with the rules surrounding your own children in FDK.

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    Cfred is exactly right. There isn't any provision in the Bill for only providing care for a shortened time frame each day. Daycare is daycare, and whether it's for a full day or only B/A school, the same rules apply. The old rules (Day Nurseries Act) allowed you to care for 5 kids under 10, plus your own, so your own kids and any dckids over age 10 didn't count. Now, your own kids under age 6 will count in that total of 5, and your dckids will take up a spot until they are 13, not 10.

    As stated above, your older child in FDK won't always count, but the regulations surrounding when exactly they will/will not count in your total of 5 haven't been written yet. The Bill simply says they won't count "during the school calendar" as long as you have no more than ONE under age 2 in care (which from the sounds of it, wouldn't be an issue for you). What we don't know is if the definition of "school calendar" includes snow days, sick days, PA days, xmas break, spring break, etc. Most people assume your own kids in FDK will count during the summer, but none of that has been specified. Hopefully the regulations will be written soon (and perhaps even in our favour!).

    Your 2-year-old will, however, take up a spot, so at the very least, you'll only have 4 daycare spots available, and the availability of one of those will be determined by the regulations surrounding when your 4-year-old will count.

    Any children in care before Dec. 4, 2014 (the day the Bill received Royal Assent) are grandfathered in until Jan. 1, 2016, when we all must be compliant. Your own kids also won't count until then. Since you don't have to worry about having too many under 2's in care, you should be able to run as-is until Jan. 2016, when you'll have to give up one, maybe 2 dckids, and any extra kids over 10 that you have as well.

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    I am so confused! If nothing is really set in stone yet, why are daycare providers terminating or getting ready to terminate? From what I have gathered on these boards, it seems as though Bill 10 might have a chance to be revised, yet the bill passed? Does anyone know anything concrete yet? I am starting back up again in July and I want to make sure I am following all the rules!

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    My understanding is that It has passed all stages expect the last stage. its suppose to pass the last stage this fall 2015. Yes the bill rules can still change in this this last stage. But the rules are 99% passed. Chances they'll change in this last stage is unlikely. Once it passes the last stage it will be 100% final. So it's only 99% final so far.

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    With it already passed everything expect one stage caregivers are preparing their daycares as if its passed. As in following the rules if filling spots in jan 2016 and giving parents heads up if they got to leave in jan 2016.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfred View Post
    DNA CMA PA FDK
    Can you explain these meanings?

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    Suzie - those are the acronyms for the following:

    DNA - Day Nurseries Act - this is the current legislation we've been following for daycare until...

    CMA - Bill 10 - Childcare Modernization Act - this is the new legislation

    PA day - a day that the kids have off school, but teachers still attend for workshops, professional development, etc

    FDK - Full Day Kindergarten

    Innisfildaycare - yep, confusing is right! The basic rules are there, but they're being hashed out in their entirety right now. Regulatory Committee has begun and CICPO (Coalition of Independent Childcare Providers) along with CCPRN (Child Care Providers Resource Network) both have been invited to attend. The first meeting was Wednesday. Kim LeGallais (co-founder CICPO) said that while there were certainly disagreements, it was a very positive and productive day. We're hoping there's a little wiggle room as these new rules get finalized. I was speaking with the head of one of the biggest Montessori's in the area (this woman heads up NINE campuses, so has some clout). She was utterly impressed that we got a seat. It's a big, big deal! Apparently, CICPO and CCPRN have some clout! Despite everything else, we're definitely being heard. Even with this bill being in place, it's still not over. We will keep going.

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    I'm a little confused as well by this bill 10. I was told that daycare centres are going to be offering more spots therefore the teacher to child ratio will be higher. Isn't the whole "purpose" of bill 10 to make kids safer as they say"? How will this work with in the centres? They can have more kids per adult but home daycare moms have to include their own kids? That makes no sense to me! How is it fair for a centre to have so many more kids per a adult then a home daycare provider?
    Last edited by Emma H; 02-27-2015 at 07:54 AM.

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    Yep Emma H, that's the Liberals' big plan - to increase the ratios in centers and decrease ours, because the gov't gets a cut of the profits made from centers. They've made home providers out to be "unsafe" and "unregulated," even though during debates we were consistently ASKING to be regulated through an independent registry, a suggestion that was ignored. This Bill was pushed through as fast as possible and became law literally a DAY before the Auditor General's report came out about deaths and accidents in centers, making it clear that they are actually LESS safe, overall, than we are. It is a big, big mess.

    While the regulatory process will certainly help to clarify some points in the Bill (namely, the FDK exception that is making people so confused), I doubt very highly that it will actually change much in our favour. This Bill is already law. If it wasn't for the year's grandfathering period, we would all be subject to these laws already. The Liberals have a majority gov't, which means they can essentially push through whatever they want and don't have to have another party agree with them. This Bill IS law, and will STAY law, and, unfortunately, it's not good for any of us.

    The reason people are turning away kids is because only children that were in care BEFORE Dec. 4, 2014 (the day the Bill received Royal Assent) are grandfathered in. New children taken into care after that date must conform to the new ratios by the Proclamation date, which is where the Bill is essentially read into law, including all the regulations making it complete. That date is "supposed" to be early fall. If a provider has 2 one-year-olds right now, for example, and is asked to take on another one, right now, technically, they can, but if all three will still be under 2 in early fall, they are looking at having to term one then. Therefore, many won't be taking on that child.

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