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  1. #1
    Shy
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    Pricing with no receipt

    Hello all,

    I am hoping to get some information regarding pricing without a receipt.

    A little background on this is that a good friend of mine is a stay at home mom that lives very close to my house in Orleans. I trust her completely as our kids play together all the time. So she as offered to watch our 3 kids when I return to work. I am looking for before and after school care for my 5 year old and 7 year old, 4 days a week and full days for my 1 year old daughter 4 or 5 days a week. Just wondering what would be a appropriate rate? Thank you

  2. #2
    Euphoric !
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    Even as a stay at home Mom, she's earning income by looking after other people's (your) children and so she must follow day care regs for your province, even if it just your children and hers. She be classed as unregistered/private day care so if she has more than one child, again depending on province you live in, she might not be allowed to take all 3 of yours.

    She also has to declare income from your children to CRA otherwise it's tax fraud. It not matter if she call herself a babysitter, or doing you favour, by being paid it income.

    As parent in Canada, you can claim tax credit on child care expenses. Up to $8,100 for your 1 year old, up to $7,000 or $8,000 for your 5 year old and up to $5,000 for you 7 year old. She must give you receipt otherwise you missing out on tax credit to for child care expenses up to $20,000 per year.

    With no receipt, you get no tax credit.

    Also, if she declare income to CRA, she be allowed to claim expenses. Part of her power, water, mortage interest or rent, internet, insurance, can all be claimed by her as a tax credit which will lower her tax bill to almost nothing. She can also claim 100% of cost of food she give your children as long as she keep her receipts. Again, this lower her tax bill and save you extra cost of providing food.

    Working for cash, mean no tax credit for either you, and a potential fraud charge plus investigation by CRA. There is a tip off line, where anyone can call and report her. Is it worth that risk to put your friend in such position?

    The rate for child care, both with receipt or without, varies on location. Here not much difference in prices. If you want rate for your area, you need to say where that is, or use the home page, type in your postal code and see what local rate is.

    To claim this, you need a receipt from your day care provider (day care provider means anyone who is paid to look after your children who is not a relative, like your friend).

  3. #3
    Euphoric !
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    It may not be as simple a process as you think. She will be considered an independent childcare provider by the Province of Ontario and be subject the rules of the Childcare Modernization Act that will take effect in August of this year. There are age restrictions she may need to consider, etc. She is required by law to give you a receipt so that you can claim the amount paid on your income taxes. Also as a home based provider there are many deductions she can make from the money she earns so it is in everyone's business to do everything above board and not under the table.

    I am also in Orleans actually. There are a couple facebook groups where information on the new bill is being shared as well as this is a great support organization for childcare providers and would be able to help your friend get set up to provide legitimate legal childcare. www.ccprn.com

    Rates average between $35 and $45 a day for full time with $40 being the most common. For before and after school range is of course less.

    Would need to know the ages of your children and the ages of the friend's children to be able to tell you if it meets the new regulations or not.

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  5. #4
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    Agree with the above posters. Even if you both refer to it as "babysitting" and she's only watching your children and hers, if it's on a regular basis and more than 10 hours per week, legally speaking, she is a home daycare provider. She's legally required to give you a receipt, whether she wants to or not, whether you want it or not - and why wouldn't you? You can claim everything you pay for childcare and get a large break on your income taxes for daycare for 3 kids.

    By taking payment under the table and not declaring it to the CRA, she is actually committing fraud. Anything earned over $50 a week needs to be declared and have taxes paid on it. She can deduct expenses such as food costs, toys, part of her hydro costs, etc, on her taxes and she won't end up paying too much if she's only making income from you, but she still needs to declare it.

    There are so many hard-working, legitimate, above-board providers around Ontario that are being hurt by the new legislation that has come in, and it's been pushed through partly because of people breaking the law. People warehousing kids, working under the table, and breaking the law has affected us all in a very negative way. You're not going to find many legit providers that are ok with hearing about a situation like this.

    Plus, even though you trust her, and I don't doubt her motives or capabilities, but doing everything above-board protects you both. You should at the very least sit down and write out a basic contract to prevent a good friendship from going sour very quickly. What is she going to feed your kids? Are they going to be allowed to watch TV? How will she discipline them? What if you pick up late or start asking her for 5 days a week instead of 3 or 4? What if one of you wants to end the arrangement for whatever reason? Doing everything in a professional, legal, legitimate way will prevent a lot of potential headaches later.

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  7. #5
    Euphoric !
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    I agree with all the above. Don't help your friend commit tax fraud.

    Secondly, as noted above. Get a contract. Nothing ruins a friendship like a spoken deal gone wrong. In the very least agree, in writing, on days of care, hours of care, how many sick days she gets, how much vacation she can take, how much notice you get for her vacation and how much notice you both need to give to end the deal.

    What will you do when she has doctor appointments, sick days, when she takes vacation. As great as it sounds to leave your kids with trusted friends...home daycare providers have contracts for a reason and it protects both parties. A friend caring for 3 children 3-4 days a week is a home daycare provider they need to plan like one, even if they are only working with one family.

    Good luck...please read all the other comments and take the advice seriously.

    Also, how many children does she have? It is a very large fine if she will have more than 5 children, including her own, at any point in a day so she does need to pay attention to the new laws being put in place right now as she is impacted by this.

  8. #6
    Euphoric !
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    Oh, to answer your question if I were your friend I would be looking to charge $50 a day for your 1yr old and $20 a day for each of your older children for before/after school care. So, you would be paying me $90 a day. Frankly I'd likely charge more because working for only one family means I am making less money but still working full time it just isn't worth my while to be working a full day for a couple bucks an hour.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandylynn View Post
    Cracks me up! People are so eager to come crashing down on home daycare providers who don't give receipts....(not that I agree with not giving receipts)....house cleaners, Waiters who don't claim tips....odd job people....and so on...who don't claim income!!!!! I had my lawn aerated ...40.00....did I get a receipt....NO...did he claim it? DON'T THINK SO....
    I don't know...when it comes to full time care of your child it just seems like there is all the more reason for it all to be on the up and up. A one time aeration of the lawn...if they do a crappy job you get screwed but in the end there isn't much harm done so you suck it up. It just seems different for something that is full time, long term and involves the care of your children! We've had those people come to the door...they just turn me off with the slimy sales pitch of the ever lowering prices, no taxes, no receipt quick deal. I would rather pay more for someone I trust is on the up and up.

    My friend is an accountant for Revenue Canada. When she moved the movers offer after the job for her to pay cash and skip the taxes. Lol...she just paused, took and breath and noted she preferred a receipt. She didn't bother to inform them she works for the people they are trying to cheat because she had her newborn in hand, was home alone and well it is just kinda awkward. Point being...you really are risking it by trying to do it under the table as you never really know!

  10. #8
    Euphoric !
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    I AM ALL FOR IT...and so would everyone else be....
    No. I pay, I want receipt. I legally entitled to a receipt.

    So no, not everyone else is all for it.

    So annoying when people work under table and then get inflated child credit because more is paid for understated income. I have no issue reporting people to CRA for tax fraud. Breaking the law, is breaking the law. If you are okay ignoring, that up to you but not everyone else is.

    Can report tax fraud here or 1-866-809-6841 (toll free). CRA not give out your name but do warn that person being reported might figure out it you, if you just complained about it to person.

    I will report a rapist, a child predator, a shop lifter and any one breaking law. Since I expect law to protect me if I am victim, I not have double standard and expect to pick and choose which law I like and ignore those I not like.

  11. #9
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    A lot of people working as nannies and daycare providers do not claim their taxes! I know people who claim I know some who don't claim or give anything, I know some who just buy a booklet from the dollar store and scribble a signature that's not recognizable but don't claim anything on their end, I even know a person who has 5 kids and receives welfare and doesn't claim on her end but gives those dollar store receipts and has never keep caught. People do all sorts of things and for such a low pay. Would are paying her for one full-time spot and 2 before and after school. That is a really low income and I wouldn't waste my time claiming their but how knows who these families worked out between them.

  12. #10
    Euphoric !
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    SMH ..... Seriously ?????? It's breaking the law !!!! It's like saying well I only stole pack of gum and it's not really that much money and.... well ..... Just not worth paying for .... Illegal is illegal ....
    Last edited by Crayola kiddies; 06-24-2015 at 12:35 PM.

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